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Yep, I don't think we're actually as far apart on this as the last few pages might suggest. It's mostly that I have very strong opinions / lines in the sand when it comes to what powers we should give our government, and people's rights to do whatever they want with their own body, so long as it doesn't harm others. Whilst you guys (understandably, given A Particular Grey Chihuahu's history with smoking, and your asthma) have very strong opinions on smoking, and a desire to save people from the evils of the tobacco industry. (Something I've not once disagreed with, if you notice, the evil that is big tobacco!)    None of us have bad intentions, so I'm more than happy to just agree to disagree. 🙂  (I would add that we both need sleep too, but I know I aint sleeping until tomorrow afternoon, and I'm guessing you're still here for the same reason. 🙈🤣)

The moral of the story is we all have contradictions in our thought processes then. I'd be happy to leave it there.

I enjoyed smoking when I did it. I never wanted to quit, because I really enjoyed it, I did so for my health and wallet.  The stimulant, nicotine, is very similar to caffeine, but better, if that makes sense. The suggestion that you get nothing out of it, is naive, and despite the fact I ignored it earlier in the thread, that was because I didn't want to pick apart every detail, and because, compared to alcohol or other substances, the effects are 'practically' nothing, just like with coffee. Not 'nothing' though, and enough to make quitting a difficult decision for me, and countless others, before you even get to the actual quit day, and difficulties of addiction.  I'd much prefer education over outright bans, coupled with taxation and protecting people from passive smoking in more places. It's worked to get us this far in terms of smoking reduction, and means those smokers that do persist, as is their right to choose, are paying way more over their lives than any treatments will cost. The average 20 a day smoker pays around £4700 a year in extra tax, that would be £47,000 over ten years, except it won't because that number will keep rising sharply! (If there are any smokers reading this, let that sink in, at current rates, which will only go up, 50 years of smoking 20 a day will mean you pay quarter of a million pounds in extra tax to the government!!! Quarter of a million pounds!!!)  Why are people not discarding their cigarette butts sensibly? They are indeed harmful, and should be discarded with care. I'd put mine in empty beer cans if I was still smoking. (I know that's not ideal, as these will be burnt off when the cans are melted down, which is bad for the environment in itself, but certainly better than dropping them on the floor, I think?) But then I also stick my empty cans in my backpack after sets to take them to the bins, clearly not everybody does, so I don't know what can be done about it honestly.  

I feel a lot of what you said is bullsh!t though, especially as you're trying to put beliefs onto me that I don't hold, and trying to make me defend thins I haven't said.   But like it's been said before, you get nothing out of smoking unless you get addicted to it. Doesn't that seem evil to you? A gradual ban is a protective measure.   Ok, here's some BS coming back your eay. Cigarette butts are bad for the environment too. They are non-biodegradable, harm wildlife, and are a bugger for us litter pickers to get rid of. What are your thoughts on that? Similar to disposable vapes?

Yes, I'm in favour of banning anything that harms the planet unnecessarily. I'm also in favour of restricting anything from causing any level of harm to third parties or their property. So smoking in some places.  I'm not in favour of the total ban, on anything like smoking, vaping, alcohol, drugs, dangerous sports, etc, even if it's dressed up in something like increasing the age limit each year, as I believe it sets a dangerous precedent. I don't believe the government should be dictating what we put in, or do with, our own bodies, and I am against giving them that remit. And it's a known fact that prohibition causes more harm than good anyway.