Marvin Gaye vs Robin Thicke (Pharell) Lawsuit

[DJL]

Was wondering what people thought of the Marvin Gaye vs Robin Thicke (Pharell) Lawsuit... and also this article on it.

http://www.nme.com/blogs/nme-blogs/the-marvin-gaye-v-robin-thicke-blurred-lines-verdict-is-an-assault-upon-creative-people-everywhere

[Ted Dansons Wig]

Interesting blog on this subject - looking at it from a music comparison standpoint:

http://joebennett.net/2014/02/01/did-robin-thicke-steal-a-song-from-marvin-gaye/

All about the cowbell (apparently)

Edited March 15, 2015 by Ted Dansons Wig

[russycarps]

Shit song ripped off by a pair of c**ts.

I'm glad they got sued and lost. Seems to happen a lot these days. That fat Essex whopper copied Tom petty didn't he? Just highlights the lack of originality around these days

[viberunner]

It's a catchy ditty, but they're a pair of knob-heads so I don't mind them getting the £7m bill, apparently delivered on Thicke's birthday. Where there's a writ there's a hit.

That said, Marvin took inspiration from those around and before him, certainly the characteristics of his contemporaries.

The blog is right this sets a dangerous precedent given just about all acts ever take characteristic inspiration from other bands. Basically Gaye's estate have patented the use of the cowbell.

[viberunner]

Shit song ripped off by a pair of c**ts.

From the blog which matches the bassline (the allegedly copied item):

When compared note for note like this, the dissimilarity is obvious. These basslines use different notes, rhythms and phrasing from each other. They’re even taken from different musical scales. Thicke’s bass notes are all taken from the mixolydian mode; the Gaye bassline is based around the pentatonic minor scale.

Thicke’s ... ‘copied the bass line’ [and then] changed most of the pitches, moved lots of notes around, and deleted some notes. Or put another way, they wrote an original bassline.

If "the feel" of a song should be unique, we'd only ever have had the first drum & bass song, the first blues song, the first jazz croon, the first funk track, the first soul song, etc. etc.

It's a crazy, degenerate verdict... one that seems to have happened because Thicky & Fartwell are a pair of shite-for-brains.

But it's a mentalist legal precedent.

[Ted Dansons Wig]

Shit song ripped off by a pair of c**ts.

I'm glad they got sued and lost. Seems to happen a lot these days. That fat Essex whopper copied Tom petty didn't he? Just highlights the lack of originality around these days

You shouldnt be. They might be knobs - but the REAL knobs are the record companies and the lawyers and they're the ones who'll be cleaning up.

[eastynh]

Blatant Shaun Ryder rip off. He even admitted to it but they never gave Marcel King a credit.

Musicians constantly borrow from other musicians, I don't really see a problem with it. Dance music was built on "borrowing" from elsewhere.

[WS_Jack_III]

What i found odd was all the crying from the family. The whole "we're free from Thicke and Pharell finally"

Made it seem like a murder case rather than a copyright infringement case.

They seem slightly unhinged to me.

[lost]

Apparently they are going after Happy next which sounds a bit like Ain't that peculiar. Noel Gallagher must be shitting himself.

[Ted Dansons Wig]

Apparently they are going after Happy next which sounds a bit like Ain't that peculiar. Noel Gallagher must be shitting himself.

The same criteria Thicke got done with works against almost all modern music. And that one isnt the same (see above) - Viberunners summed it up pretty well I think. Lot of copyright lawyers rubbing their hands.

Only music safe is going to be the stuff where the copyright has run out. Apart from the REALLY innovative material. And god knows theres little of that.

[russycarps]

You shouldnt be. They might be knobs - but the REAL knobs are the record companies and the lawyers and they're the ones who'll be cleaning up.

I dunno, just don't copy other people's music and there is no problem. The similarities in this case are pretty blatant.

[Ted Dansons Wig]

I dunno, just don't copy other people's music and there is no problem. The similarities in this case are pretty blatant.

Not sure copied though is it - or at least theres evidence to suggest it isnt. From the blog again(where the author responds to the allegations):

"Copied the bass line of Gaye’s ‘Got To Give It Up’.

If this is true, and Thicke’s team actually ‘copied the bass line’, then they changed most of the pitches, moved lots of notes around, and deleted some notes. Or put another way, they wrote an original bassline.

[Thicke has copied] the defining funk of the cowbell accents.

What exactly is ‘the defining funk’? Most of the accents in ‘Blurred Lines’ do not appear on the same beats of the bar as in the Gaye song, which by any reasonable rhythmic definition makes them different accents. Or put another way, they are an original compositional idea."

As the blog put (and as Viberunner has pasted above) - the two things are different but we are reminded of the Gaye track listening to the Thicke track because it uses a similar beat and instrumentation.

This is the worrying bit - again from the blog:

"The act of putting an electric piano together with a cowbell and a 120BPM disco beat would need to have been judged a creative act in itself, making instrumentation and possibly even genre into protectable Intellectual Property. Which would have had massive implications for future creators of music"

[viberunner]

but the backing track sounds almost identical, it's not just a bit similar...

The only differences being the wildly different notes, a different pitch, and a different scale.

[viberunner]

I doubt very much if that's what motivated the case in the first place, or the judgement. It's more than likely because they sound extremely similar.

Is the backing track actually sampled from Marvin Gaye's recording?. I used to think it was Marvin for the first few moments each time it came on

Greed motivated the case and Thicke being a twat probably helped motivate the jury. No, there was no sampling. The structure of the bassline is actually very different. As is the cowbell.

[viberunner]

they're not part of the backing track

The backing track isn't even part of the case afiaa.

[DJL]

Interesting stuff. I'm not a musician but it sounded very similiar the first time i heard it and i assumed they had paid for the rights.

You can't take someone else's essay, mix words around, remove some and add some of your own and not be accused of plagiarism. Taking inspiration from genres, eras, styles, artists or even albums is one thing but trying to recreate the feel of one song alone is pushing it and imo, despite the clear differences, it just feels too close to the original to not deserve a credit.

The deciding factor to me is the below (from the 2nd link posted) particularly the quote from Thicke...

I think the reason is that the tracks do sound similar. Indeed, I dont doubt Thickes production team deliberately used Got To Give It Up as a style template to create the sound and feel of Blurred Lines. The instrumentation and tempos are pretty much the same, and there are many notable arrangement decisions in the Gaye song (for example, playing the bassline on an electric piano) that occur in Blurred Lines. In fact, Thicke himself stated publicly in a GQ interview that his team wrote Blurred Lines using Got To Give It Up as inspiration:

Pharrell and I were in the studio and I told him that one of my favorite songs of all time was Marvin Gayes Got to Give It Up. I was like, Damn, we should make something like that, something with that groove. Then he started playing a little something and we literally wrote the song in about a half hour and recorded it. The whole thing was done in a couple hours

Robin Thicke interview, 7th May 2013 (interviewed by Stelios Phili for GQ magazine).

Edited March 15, 2015 by DJL

[Mouseboy11]

I find the Smith/Petty case slightly more strange, I really don't have much similarity between those two tracks at all.

[russycarps]

Not sure copied though is it - or at least theres evidence to suggest it isnt. From the blog again(where the author responds to the allegations):

"Copied the bass line of Gayes Got To Give It Up.

If this is true, and Thickes team actually copied the bass line, then they changed most of the pitches, moved lots of notes around, and deleted some notes. Or put another way, they wrote an original bassline.

[Thicke has copied] the defining funk of the cowbell accents.

What exactly is the defining funk? Most of the accents in Blurred Lines do not appear on the same beats of the bar as in the Gaye song, which by any reasonable rhythmic definition makes them different accents. Or put another way, they are an original compositional idea."

As the blog put (and as Viberunner has pasted above) - the two things are different but we are reminded of the Gaye track listening to the Thicke track because it uses a similar beat and instrumentation.

This is the worrying bit - again from the blog:

"The act of putting an electric piano together with a cowbell and a 120BPM disco beat would need to have been judged a creative act in itself, making instrumentation and possibly even genre into protectable Intellectual Property. Which would have had massive implications for future creators of music"

Yeah it's hard to argue with your points there, but I do think the similarities between the songs are glaring enough for them to lose this case.

I guess the fact the song is so odious, and that thicke and pharrel are a pair of loathsome c**ts does sway my opinion a bit.

But that being said, the flaming lips are a band I love, and I am glad they got done for copying a cat Stevens song...

[Bisque]

LOL at shite fore brains.

[Ted Dansons Wig]

Yeah it's hard to argue with your points there, but I do think the similarities between the songs are glaring enough for them to lose this case.

I guess the fact the song is so odious, and that thicke and pharrel are a pair of loathsome c**ts does sway my opinion a bit.

But that being said, the flaming lips are a band I love, and I am glad they got done for copying a cat Stevens song...

Damn right - if the charge was "being loathsome c**ts with malice aforethought" there isn't a jury in the land that would find them innocent.

Its a really dodgy one - they're clearly trying to re-capture what Marvin was doing at the very least. But where do you stop - James Browns estate lawyers could have a field day with funk and r&B - and that's not going near the Rap stuff. And in that context - there hasn't been an original country or Americana song for decades.

Could get messy

[gary1979666]

I find the Smith/Petty case slightly more strange, I really don't have much similarity between those two tracks at all.

I never put the two together until I read about it, but now I can't not hear the similarities in the chorus.

[eFestivals]

hey, I think it's great - Marvin is being played LOADS, and some people are newly discovering the difference between quality and kack.

[The Nal]

hey, I think it's great - Marvin is being played LOADS, and some people are newly discovering the difference between quality and kack.

Yep, any exposure is good. Hopefully we'll hear more Trouble Man or Come Get to This as a result.

Bizarre case though. There are an infinite amount of songs that it could happen to.

[eFestivals]

Yep, any exposure is good. Hopefully we'll hear more Trouble Man or Come Get to This as a result.

Bizarre case though. There are an infinite amount of songs that it could happen to.

it's cos Pharrel brought it on himself, via a "sue me" comment.

The dick.

[LondonTom]

I never put the two together until I read about it, but now I can't not hear the similarities in the chorus.

Quite there is a youtube video where it fades the tracks in and out of each other and it basically sounds continous! (I cba finding it now as I can't hear it at work to see if its the right one). So I can see why it could be considered "copying" another song.

If they had given credit in the first place, presumingly they wouldn't have to share as much of the profits ?

I do think I might be biased and wanting to see the similarity to be able to critisize Pharrell/Robin Thicke more though