The N Word

[MrZigster]

'cause she ain't messin' wiv no broke one, and apparently they're in Paris.

Am I allowed to sing along, or, should I censor myself?

Genuine question. Not wishing to appear facetious or flippant.

Edit: Damn. Wrong forum.

Edited March 20, 2015 by MrZigster

[metallimuse]

How middle class and white are you if you feel you have to ask that question?

Seriously...

[kaosmark2]

Louis CK:

When you say ‘the n-word’ you put the word ‘nigger’ in the listeners’ head. That’s what saying a word is. You say ‘the n-word’ and I go, ‘oh, she means nigger.’ You’re making me say it in my head. Why don’t you say it instead and take responsibility for the shitty words you want to say?

Here's a very good article by one of my favourite hip hop artists about it:

https://medium.com/cuepoint/nigga-please-93b5d29a615

[jump]

Louis CK:

When you say ‘the n-word’ you put the word ‘nigger’ in the listeners’ head. That’s what saying a word is. You say ‘the n-word’ and I go, ‘oh, she means nigger.’ You’re making me say it in my head. Why don’t you say it instead and take responsibility for the shitty words you want to say?

Here's a very good article by one of my favourite hip hop artists about it:

https://medium.com/cuepoint/nigga-please-93b5d29a615

I will disagree with that to the extent the only time I ever hear people say "n-word" is when they are quoting someone who has said the real word and don't want to say it but otherwise yeah, if you mean it say rather than thinking it's somekind of loophole to not get in trouble.

[t8yman]

Dont say it, or allude to it. Unless you are a black rapper, or "gang banger"

[gary1979666]

...Or using a 'dip' to decide between several options.

[LondonTom]

As long as you [Audio Muted] if you are broadcasting on TV

[viberunner]

Dont say it, or allude to it. Unless you are a black rapper, or "gang banger"

Or Quentin Tarantino.

[midnight]

I'm white, so it is not a word I'd ever use, not even in a singalong-situation (but I'm not at risk as I will probably give Kanye W a miss at Glastonbury - assuming that is where the idea for this thread came from?).

I have a few black friends and collegues who are unhappy about the resurgence of the word, and they are telling me that they have arguments about it with their children, children's friends, generally the younger generation, along the lines of: we fought long and hard to get rid of this kind of stuff, why are you now using it for each other? That's all I can say, really, but it's enough for me steer well clear of it, whatever the context.

[eFestivals]

I'm white, so it is not a word I'd ever use, not even in a singalong-situation (but I'm not at risk as I will probably give Kanye W a miss at Glastonbury - assuming that is where the idea for this thread came from?).

I have a few black friends and collegues who are unhappy about the resurgence of the word, and they are telling me that they have arguments about it with their children, children's friends, generally the younger generation, along the lines of: we fought long and hard to get rid of this kind of stuff, why are you now using it for each other? That's all I can say, really, but it's enough for me steer well clear of it, whatever the context.

in a 2nd n-word thread, I've been called out as "old fashioned" for saying that I feel it's better that racist slurs were not again acceptable to be heard within society.

While I'm perfectly happy to accept that ideas can change, no one is saying why it makes the world a better place to have those racist slurs as acceptable.

[metallimuse]

A word is just that,a word.It can't hurt or offend you as a word.The contexts the word is used in can.

When rappers,comedians & the like started using it and demystified it I was all for it as it took away from the power that word held and was like a slap in the face to the racists I felt.

I would and have freely used the word while singing along or quoting/impersonating Denzel in Training Day.Doesn't make me racist.It's a word.I'm not directing it with vitriol and hate.I'm using a word.

[kaosmark2]

A word is just that,a word.It can't hurt or offend you as a word

[metallimuse]

I've read that 6 times and I still fail to see the point you are making.

A word is a word.The context of its use or its delivery may cause offense but it's still just a word.No word should be exclusive to one group and no word should be outlawed.

I could say to a girl,"Damn you got a fat ass girl" and one way is complimentary and another is offensive. It's still the same words but illicits two different responses depending on the way it's said.Exact same words.A word is a word.Has no meaning to it until given human emotion behind it.

[kaosmark2]

Words have impact. You talk about context and human emotion, but "nigger" always has the context of slavery and oppression. Always. Rappers and comedians didn't use it to take away its impact, they use it because it has impact. "Nigger" was reclaimed by black people as a display of camaraderie long before hip hop. The very word is charged with emotion and power.

Stating that a word, in particular this word, cannot offend on its own is completely false. Of course it can, of course it has that potential. Many won't be offended by it, but that doesn't mean the word doesn't have the power to.

[feral chile]

I've read that 6 times and I still fail to see the point you are making.

A word is a word.The context of its use or its delivery may cause offense but it's still just a word.No word should be exclusive to one group and no word should be outlawed.

I could say to a girl,"Damn you got a fat ass girl" and one way is complimentary and another is offensive. It's still the same words but illicits two different responses depending on the way it's said.Exact same words.A word is a word.Has no meaning to it until given human emotion behind it.

That's not actually a good example. The person on the receiving end can't see into your head, and you can't see into theirs, so you don't know what pain might be triggered.

Black people have had to suffer racist 'jokes' for years, and felt obliged to be 'good sports' and develop a 'sense of humour'. And I'm sure lots of people didn't even mean t cause offence, because the person on the receiving end didn't feel able to object, for fear of even further rejection.

I ust think it's safer to err on the side of caution.

ps if my husband said 'you've got a fat arse' to me he'd get a slap, and I wouldn't give a shit whether it was meant as a compliment.

Edited March 21, 2015 by feral chile

[metallimuse]

But then you are discussing whether to censor yourself for fear of offending another despite the fact that you know you aren't using a word of phrase in a negative manner.

So again I would say that a word is just a word.Of course a word has to potential to offend but it's the manner of its use rather than the word itself.

[metallimuse]

That's not actually a good example. The person on the receiving end can't see into your head, and you can't see into theirs, so you don't know what pain might be triggered.

Black people have had to suffer racist 'jokes' for years, and felt obliged to be 'good sports' and develop a 'sense of humour'. And I'm sure lots of people didn't even mean t cause offence, because the person on the receiving end didn't feel able to object, for fear of even further rejection.

I ust think it's safer to err on the side of caution.

ps if my husband said 'you've got a fat arse' to me he'd get a slap, and I wouldn't give a shit whether it was meant as a compliment.

But that's YOUR perception. Which is fine and I accept but you must be aware that in today's culture there are women who would take that as a compliment. My point being that words are just words.It's the way that they are used which give them their meaning.

[feral chile]

But then you are discussing whether to censor yourself for fear of offending another despite the fact that you know you aren't using a word of phrase in a negative manner.

So again I would say that a word is just a word.Of course a word has to potential to offend but it's the manner of its use rather than the word itself.

it's the manner of its impact that's important, I would never use the word 'queer' either, despite the fact that it's been reclaimed. Wiki has a discussion about it:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Queer

[feral chile]

But that's YOUR perception. Which is fine and I accept but you must be aware that in today's culture there are women who would take that as a compliment. My point being that words are just words.It's the way that they are used which give them their meaning.

It's the way that they're interpreted that gives them their meaning. And if a word is ambiguous, I personally would prefer to avoid it, for fear of being misunderstood/causing unintentional pain.

[metallimuse]

It's the way that they're interpreted that gives them their meaning. And if a word is ambiguous, I personally would prefer to avoid it, for fear of being misunderstood/causing unintentional pain.

But every word is ambiguous. Every word can be misused and said with deep sarcasm or irony to mean the opposite of its true definition. It's the manner of its delivery and usage which gives it it's meaning when used in whatever context.

[feral chile]

But every word is ambiguous. Every word can be misused and said with deep sarcasm or irony to mean the opposite of its true definition. It's the manner of its delivery and usage which gives it it's meaning when used in whatever context.

mmm...not really. I used the word 'police' recently, to say that women sought out female authority and influence, and weren't subject to male approval.

But the word itself has negative connotations when used in relation to women, and I should have been more careful as was pointed out to me.

So my use of the word was at odds with the general negativity of it when applied to women. And a comment that was meant to be feminist turned out to be anything but.

Edited March 21, 2015 by feral chile

[metallimuse]

mmm...not really. I used the word 'police' recently, to say that women sought out female authority and influence, and weren't subject to male approval.

But the word itself has negative connotations when used in relation to women, and I should have been more careful as was pointed out to me.

So my use of the word was at odds with the general negativity of it when applied to women. And a comment that was meant to be feminist turned out to be anything but.

But if you said the word 'police' to me I would think of law and order.People who are there to protect the public from the bad guys.Yet that exact SAME WORD had negative connotations for you and the people around you.SAME WORD,totally different meanings.So was the WORD at fault or the manner/place/usage wrong?

If I shouted in a black persons face "You fucking..." then that would be wrong and racist,yet if I chose to rap along to a song which contains the word as a lyric then I refuse to believe that that is wrong or offensive. I am simply singing a song in which that artist has chosen to use that word as a lyric.

Words are words until an individual gives them meaning.

[feral chile]

But if you said the word 'police' to me I would think of law and order.People who are there to protect the public from the bad guys.Yet that exact SAME WORD had negative connotations for you and the people around you.SAME WORD,totally different meanings.So was the WORD at fault or the manner/place/usage wrong?

If I shouted in a black persons face "You fucking..." then that would be wrong and racist,yet if I chose to rap along to a song which contains the word as a lyric then I refuse to believe that that is wrong or offensive. I am simply singing a song in which that artist has chosen to use that word as a lyric.

Words are words until an individual gives them meaning.

But what I'm saying was that, even in a context where I thought I was challenging male authority, because of my choice of words, 'authority' meant 'judgemental attitudes', and that was because of the wider context of the word.

It wasn't a neutral word, as its usage history had negative connotations that I should have considered before using it in my intended context.

[viberunner]

I'll stop using the word when the urban yoof of London stop calling the Metropolitan Police "da fedz".

[metallimuse]

But what I'm saying was that, even in a context where I thought I was challenging male authority, because of my choice of words, 'authority' meant 'judgemental attitudes', and that was because of the wider context of the word.

It wasn't a neutral word, as its usage history had negative connotations that I should have considered before using it in my intended context.

That wasn't the discussion though,you seem to just be ignoring my points.

The word you used has many different thoughts attached to it which many people have.So a word is a word until you or others put their thoughts behind it.