Cashless? I'm stunned at the apathy.

[Red Day]

Maybe see you for a beer Devilman. Me and the loon heading down again

[calum mac]

I'm not defending it, I'm just not arsed about it. It doesn't affect me one way or the other. They've been scanning my ticket in and out of festivals for years. It's not really any different except that now they'll know what food i eat and how many pints I have. I really don't care. If it helps them plan better then good. If not then whoopie doo. Yes I love Download but it's not the only festival. If this pisses off enough people to give Sonisphere grounds to run again next year then....... winner winner chicken dinner.

If you want freedom then come buy a croft up here with no electricity or utilities. That's probably as close as it gets in this country and even then you'll have to jump through some fucker's hoops.

It amuses me that to get to Download your vehicle will have had its registration recognised by monitoring cameras several hundred times. Your face will have been recognised up to 300 times a square mile in some parts of the country. Your phone will give away your position to 3m and your cards will reveal what you have bought, or withdrawn in the lead up and yet you worry about Livenation knowing which food stalls you use. It's crazy.

But a Croft they would complain some one could see the smoke from their fire and know if it was wood or coal they were burning

[jammy2211]

I'm not totally sure that statistics is the primary incentive for the likes of LIveNation implementing a scheme like this. I assumed this was more to do with simply helping with the movement / management of physical money. Having millions of pounds of cash on site is a huge security risk, alongside great expense required in moving it, counting it etc.

Stat tracking is possible, but I'm not totally convinced it tells them a huge amount of information they probably don't already know for the most part. Stat tracking on the scale of the major supermarkets isn't simply something where they note down a load of numbers and rejig their stores to sell double the product. It requires an extensive experimentation based approach, which is grudually rolled out over a small sample of stores and very often yields statistically insignificant results (which may not correspond to a positive increase in sales).

Generally I've formed the impression that large corporations are the most mindnumbingly boring, risk-adverse entities in the world. While the stats they could in-theory collect on every festival goer is compelling, I don't think any of these companies have a willingness or culture to experiment and change things based on 'the stats'.

[devilman]

Maybe see you for a beer Devilman. Me and the loon heading down again

Absolutely bud, just don't look for the blonde mohawk this year, it's in retirement. (I think)

[rivalschools.price]

If they are going to use my spending habits at Download to target me for marketing purposes I expect my junk mailbox to fill up in July with beer and burger promotional emails.

[eFestivals]

I don't get the control thing. Nobody is making me go. As I said before - paranoid over reaction much!

you are giving away your control over your spending.

Your ability to spend (at Download) is not now in your control. It's in the control of Download. They can 'kill' you whenever they might want to.

Now, I admit, that does sound paranoid. I don't really expect Download to be doing that .... but as soon as systems like these become accepted cash will disappear (look at what Denmark is planning!) and it *WILL* be happening.

There's plenty of films out there with this sort of theme. It is the govt in 100% control of what you';re able to do.

[eFestivals]

Having millions of pounds of cash on site is a huge security risk, alongside great expense required in moving it, counting it etc.

the only festival I'm aware of ever having been robbed is T in the Park - but from the organisers home, not the festival. Quite why he decided to take that money home is only known to him, tho at the time there were lots of suggestions of a scam.

And anyway, the only cash they'd be responsible for on-site is the beer money*. They're actually taking on responsibility for the traders cash when they don't have to - and as it's a risk, they'll be taking a premium for that 'service'.

(*I'm not sure if Download use tokens or not, but that's always been the standard way for festies to protect the beer money if THEY'RE PARANOID!

Amusingly, festies have lost more money over tokens scams than they'd have lost via using cash.

It's not about the cash handling. It's about wanting absolute control and knowledge of trader activities, which then also gives control of the punters.

[t8yman]

Sadly Neil, we are wasting our time.

Apparently LN are doing this for all the right reasons, and besides, it doesn't really affect anyone.

[Lumz]

Why should we have so much control and say over what happens at someone else's festival? We're essentially a guest on their site... They make the rules, we abide by them, or we don't attend.

From what I can see, Download is one of the best festivals for listening to it's consumer and taking on board suggestions from them (look at the new things implemented this year entertainment wise etc).

[t8yman]

Fuck me.

[eFestivals]

Why should we have so much control and say over what happens at someone else's festival? We're essentially a guest on their site... They make the rules, we abide by them, or we don't attend.

It's not about wanting control over them, it's about having control of yourself.

From what I can see, Download is one of the best festivals for listening to it's consumer and taking on board suggestions from them (look at the new things implemented this year entertainment wise etc).

PMSL .... yeah, because there's been a huge customer demand to have Download wipe their customer's arses for them because those customers are incapable of wiping their own arses. ;lol:

[Lumz]

PMSL .... yeah, because there's been a huge customer demand to have Download wipe their customer's arses for them because those customers are incapable of wiping their own arses. ;lol:

I didn't say that everything Download does is for the consumer, it is just one of the best in comparison to the other big festivals at taking suggestions and implementing them based on feedback from paying guests.

[eFestivals]

I didn't say that everything Download does is for the consumer, it is just one of the best in comparison to the other big festivals at taking suggestions and implementing them based on feedback from paying guests.

the fact that you call them "paying guests" and not what they are - customers - only gets to show you've sucked up the spivs dictionary.

[t8yman]

I didn't say that everything Download does is for the consumer, it is just one of the best in comparison to the other big festivals at taking suggestions and implementing them based on feedback from paying guests.

you've got a strange way of looking at the situation my friend. and funnily enough, its exactly the way LN want you to see it, propaganda eh!

you are not a paying guest, you are a customer

you are doing them a solid giving them your custom, not "lucky they are letting you in"

they are operating in a free country, where we have legal tender, its called "british pounds sterling", and LN are saying it has no value in a legal transaction

they are basically denying your human right to free movement to go about your life, unmolested whilst conducting yourself in a legal and safe manner.

and you are falling into line, and thanking them for it.

LN are scaling the festival down, not "adding cool shit" (read saltys post on earlier page), and anyway - they only do the things you might like because they want you to keep attending, and they keep making money - the minute something costs them, they will stop doing it.

If you are fine with it, then fair enough - be fine with it. I just think it would be nice if you thought about why they are doing it, and what implications there are further down the road, because you can be sure they will ramp it up once everyone has got used to it being normal, for example - they could allow the highest "spend per hour" customers into the "VIP gold enclosure" down the front - and stop letting people who spend all day on the barrier (not spending any money) getting there. sound fair?

or they could potentially kill the wristbands of people who like to crowdsurf? or go in moshpits?

and I wouldnt be surprised if they have GPS tracking added on next year if this year goes smoothly, so they can map everyone.

then another thing

then another thing

then another thing

then you will wonder how we got to this state, and you will think "why did we put up with that in the first place?"

[lightning1000]

PMSL .... yeah, because there's been a huge customer demand to have Download wipe their customer's arses for them because those customers are incapable of wiping their own arses. ;lol:

Have you not seen most of the attendees at download? I'm not sure their arses get wiped at all!!!

[Lumz]

I think you're looking at this far too seriously and with far too much emphasis on potential scenarios that probably won't happen.

Taking it on face value, I'm on there patch and they're "doing me a solid" by putting on an awesome weekend full of my favourite bands, something that I can't do for myself. And all I have to do is pay my £200 for a ticket and use a wristband to pay for a pint.

As I've said, I know that LN would only put such a thing in place that benefits them, at the end of the day they're a business. But, I have no problem if whilst I'm at their festival, on the land they hire, if they wish for me to pay via a wristband that I've uploaded my money too, and at the same time they want to know how many pints I've bought.

[foolee]

The way I see it I wouldn't go to a festival that used this system. Seems like more hassle than it's worth to me, never been robbed at a festival and you just need to be wary and that way I don't think you'd get robbed. With regards to robbery at festivals, this won't stop them, they move with the times and they'll get clever and just think of ways to remove your dogtag/wristband (this may be while watching bands/asleep) effectively taking all your money, it may also cause problems with being charged multiple times for one item and you wouldn't know anything about it.

I think if you're willing to put up with it for now like t8yman suggested it'll end up being too late when you're uphappy with the system because by that time every festival will be doing it and it will be the unfortunate norm, I would hate for every festival to do this.

[eFestivals]

I think you're looking at this far too seriously and with far too much emphasis on potential scenarios that probably won't happen.

Oh, the future I'm seeing if people mindlessly go along with these sorts of things will definitely happen. It's already happening in other parts of the world.

Denmark is planning to end the use of cash entirely, meaning that if the govt cuts you off, you're dead.

The only way to stop it is to not go along with it in the first place.

Taking it on face value, I'm on there patch and they're "doing me a solid" by putting on an awesome weekend full of my favourite bands, something that I can't do for myself. And all I have to do is pay my £200 for a ticket and use a wristband to pay for a pint.

As I've said, I know that LN would only put such a thing in place that benefits them, at the end of the day they're a business. But, I have no problem if whilst I'm at their festival, on the land they hire, if they wish for me to pay via a wristband that I've uploaded my money too, and at the same time they want to know how many pints I've bought.

And YOU paying for Download to fuck you? Does that not come into your thoughts at all?

If not, wanna send me all your cash? You might as well give it to me for no return as you might Download.

[eFestivals]

The way I see it I wouldn't go to a festival that used this system.

Me neither.

I've been going to Glastonbury for 30 years and have no intention of stopping. If Glastonbury implemented a system like this that'd be it for me.

I go to watch bands and enjoy myself in a hassle-free way. If their terms say I have to do something I don't want to, that's extra hassle, at my expense, for just their benefit, they can fuck off.

[Lumz]

I think the conclusion from all this is that I'm more positive than the average person haha!

Whether I use a wristband or cash, I'm still going to go to the festival, watch my favourite bands, pay too much for a pint, be subjected to a tonne of advertising everywhere I turn etc. But at the end of the day, I'll still have a mint weekend regardless of whether a cashless system is in place.

What I will address though is the whole Denmark thing, which is different entirely. That would affect my every day life, in a way that they could cut me off completely if I didn't have a job (as an example), meaning I couldn't buy the essentials needed to live. Where as at Download, anything that would result in me being cut off means I probably deserved it, and wristband or not I can still camp, watch bands, drink my own beer etc. so it's not impossible.

[eFestivals]

I think the conclusion from all this is that I'm more positive than the average person haha!

Whether I use a wristband or cash, I'm still going to go to the festival, watch my favourite bands, pay too much for a pint, be subjected to a tonne of advertising everywhere I turn etc. But at the end of the day, I'll still have a mint weekend regardless of whether a cashless system is in place.

What I will address though is the whole Denmark thing, which is different entirely. That would affect my every day life, in a way that they could cut me off completely if I didn't have a job (as an example), meaning I couldn't buy the essentials needed to live. Where as at Download, anything that would result in me being cut off means I probably deserved it, and wristband or not I can still camp, watch bands, drink my own beer etc. so it's not impossible.

You're differentiating between two things which are ultimately the same thing.

If people mindlessly accept what Download is doing, why do you think they'll suddenly start to think when the same is rolled out for everything in their lives?

[rivalschools.price]

Anybody on here got a Tesco clubcard?

Just asking.

[eFestivals]

Anybody on here got a Tesco clubcard?

Just asking.

Funnily enough, I refuse to have one.

At least i'm consistent.

[rivalschools.price]

Funnily enough, I refuse to have one.

At least i'm consistent.

Ha ha, fair enough

[eFestivals]

Ha ha, fair enough

The meaningful point from that is: a person has the option to opt-in or opt-out of that, as they wish.

No such choice exists with what Download are doing. You have to accept it, otherwise you have to reject the whole festival.