Cashless? I'm stunned at the apathy.

[eFestivals]

As much as I long for this to fail dismally, I take no joy whatsoever from people who are left unable to buy food and drinks. But I do hope it makes people think about the concept critically.

Just to make it clear I wasn't laughing at people suffering problems, I was laughing at the idea of there being a workable fall-back option.

There's only a workable fall-back option if people bring enough cash to fall back onto using cash - but given as the system is designed to (in effect) stop people bringing cash, cash is not an option.

[t8yman]

Just to make it clear I wasn't laughing at people suffering problems, I was laughing at the idea of there being a workable fall-back option.

There's only a workable fall-back option if people bring enough cash to fall back onto using cash - but given as the system is designed to (in effect) stop people bringing cash, cash is not an option.

I wasn't suggesting you were.

[theramm]

Apparently it’s not sorted.

People who topped up on site yesterday still haven’t got any money & the queue for the ‘Cashless Help’ tent is already massive. If you’ve topped up prior to the fest there’s a chance you’ll have no cash when you arrive & if you top up whilst there (via the app or a machine) you’ll not see your money for 24hrs.

[t8yman]

https://twitter.com/Fowdall/status/608896546613145600

Any way to embed tweets on the board Neil?

Edited June 11, 2015 by t8yman

[Ipayne]

Wtf! Just seen a picture of the queue for the cashless help tent. These 5 days passes look to have been pointless to some people which is absolutely awful because they've been worrying about not having any money since arriving on site yesterday.

[t8yman]

Don't worry Downloaders, the police are keeping an eye on you anyway.

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2015/06/11/download_festival_big_brother_playground_leicestershire_police/?page=1

NeoFace Watch is the mobile surveillance platform from the NeoFace suite, which functions by "integrating face matching technology with video surveillance input, while checking individuals against known photographic watch lists, and producing real-time alerts" according to a product brochure.

According to an interview with DC Kevin Walker, published in Police Oracle on Monday, "Strategically placed cameras will scan faces at the Download Festival site in Donington before comparing [them] with a database of custody images from across Europe."

The FAQ also asks whether your "movement can be tracked with RFID technology?" "No, it can't" cometh the answer: "Your dog tag will not be equipped with GPS technology and therefore it will be impossible to track your movements."

This is quite a cynical response which relies upon a very specific definition of what constitutes the tracking of movements. While correctly distinguished from a positioning system, RFID "control access" functions allow a database operator to locate the wrist-bound devices by logging its passage into each access-controlled area.

Thin end of the fucking wedge.

[atomised]

That's awful. I'd be seriously contemplating heading home fearful of the problem dragging on and ruining the whole weekend

[eFestivals]

https://twitter.com/Fowdall/status/608896546613145600

Any way to embed tweets on the board Neil?

not as far as I know, soz (tho will take a look in a bit to see if there's some way of setting it up).

[t8yman]

saw you retweeted the one I posted, the following one is more worrying/more worthy of an efests mention dontcha think?

[atomised]

Everything I've seen so far suggests it's more than just the odd few

[Andre91]

Well this is a massive spanner in the works I'm going on Saturday for the day and me and my friend were going to top our tags up tonight, but after all of this going on I'm very much in two minds whether to or not.

Food isn't really an issue for us, but we both wanted to buy a Download t-shirt each as a souvenir of our first visit to Donington.

[thejimbola]

Ours are working well. Only problem is our mate who upgraded her ticket at the box office and now has to queue for hours to link her new ticket to her account before she can top up. Seems stupid as they should have just linked the ticket to her tag on the gate. May have been someone on the gate not doing what they were supposed to.

[5co77ie]

http://www.efestivals.co.uk/news/15/150611c.shtml

[bigbilly]

Was at the Detonate Festival two weeks ago and the cashless system broke down there as well. people queing 3-4 hours to get in for a day event and then getting in and not getting wristbands.

I was in with a wristband early and the system worked well and could really see the benefits.

What got me was that if you top up on site it cost 50p then it costs a further 2.50 to claim any cash back that you had left. If you dont claim within two weeks the company keeps all the money.

I do like the system and do think its the way forward but it seems not ready yet, in the UK at least.

Be interesting to see if its the same company as both festivals are local to each other.

[t8yman]

I love the fact that people only have an issue with the whole concept when it doesn't work for them.

Remember cash?

works every time.

[windy_miller]

Don't worry Downloaders, the police are keeping an eye on you anyway.

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2015/06/11/download_festival_big_brother_playground_leicestershire_police/?page=1

Thin end of the fucking wedge.

I came here to post the same link. There is no way I would ever attend a festival that implemented this, it's fucking ridiculous.

Reading through this thread, I'm wondering what all the supporters of the system are thinking now that they can't buy any food or drink?

And what about the vendors... will they get any compensation if they aren't able to sell anything?

[eFestivals]

There is no way I would ever attend a festival that implemented this, it's fucking ridiculous.

How would you know which festivals the police are targeting with a system like this?

They use this sort of stuff at all sorts of places now. Big Brother wasn't fiction.

[5co77ie]

Don't worry Downloaders, the police are keeping an eye on you anyway.

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2015/06/11/download_festival_big_brother_playground_leicestershire_police/?page=1

is Download chock full of criminals?

If it isn't you have to wonder why do they want the faces of everyone attending, their names and addresses when they bought their tickets, and thanks to the dog tag - their financial details - and a way to put names to the faces.

[tolywoly]

A big bang roll out of a new IT system goes a bit wrong. Did anyone see that coming?

If folk don't mind Download fest tracking their spend and movements, next year they can make that choice before buying a ticket. I didn't get a choice this year.

Has the old 'legal tender' argument been explored? If they served me a pint, I necked it then offered them a fiver cash to pay could they legally refuse? Would I be within my rights to shout 'legal tender! legal tender!' as I was being ejected from the site?

On a positive note, I'm really looking forward to seeing Backyard Babies. It's been about 15years since the last time.

[eFestivals]

Has the old 'legal tender' argument been explored? If they served me a pint, I necked it then offered them a fiver cash to pay could they legally refuse? Would I be within my rights to shout 'legal tender! legal tender!' as I was being ejected from the site?

I'm guessing that because the cashless thing was imposed after the tickets had been sold (for most people, anyway), they're on very dodgy legal ground around the 'legal tender' laws or consumer laws.

I would expect that as a minimum they'd be required to give a full refund to anyone who didn't want to accept the forced-on-them cashless terms of entry.

I doubt anyone will test it in a court tho, which is a bit of a shame.

[tyranicide]

You can still take cash and put it onto a card there. They might argue that its the same as an arcade - you have to swap the cash for tokens, only at download its a card instead of tokens.

[thewayiam]

People won't have taken cash because they'll have put it on the wristbands.

If they can't read the wristbands, what fallback option do you think they could run which would work?

I'm guessing any people who buy day tickets on the day need to take cash to top them up inside.

Apparently it’s not sorted.

People who topped up on site yesterday still haven’t got any money & the queue for the ‘Cashless Help’ tent is already massive. If you’ve topped up prior to the fest there’s a chance you’ll have no cash when you arrive & if you top up whilst there (via the app or a machine) you’ll not see your money for 24hrs.

This just adds to why it is a poorly run festival for me and just got majorly worse. I do still fancy a day ticket for Saturday but this is shocking!. I'd turn up and spend the day trying to sort out a wristband.

is Download chock full of criminals?

If it isn't you have to wonder why do they want the faces of everyone attending, their names and addresses when they bought their tickets, and thanks to the dog tag - their financial details - and a way to put names to the faces.

More people don't leave Download over any other festival I've been to on the Sunday night for no reason. It used to be the worse for idiots and fire starts.

Edited June 11, 2015 by thewayiam

[Redwinevino]

Was at the Detonate Festival two weeks ago and the cashless system broke down there as well. people queing 3-4 hours to get in for a day event and then getting in and not getting wristbands.

I was in with a wristband early and the system worked well and could really see the benefits.

What got me was that if you top up on site it cost 50p then it costs a further 2.50 to claim any cash back that you had left. If you dont claim within two weeks the company keeps all the money.

I do like the system and do think its the way forward but it seems not ready yet, in the UK at least.

Be interesting to see if its the same company as both festivals are local to each other.

Primavera tried it a few years ago and it was biggest mess ever

[eFestivals]

Primavera tried it a few years ago and it was biggest mess ever

thing is, even if they get the basics of the system working properly so everything runs smoothly when it's working, the system will still go down sometimes - not necessarily at every event, but when it does happen at any event there will be major issues.

It's impossible for a cash-based system to go offline.

[tolywoly]

You can still take cash and put it onto a card there. They might argue that its the same as an arcade - you have to swap the cash for tokens, only at download its a card instead of tokens.

The complication arises when you've already taken a service (e.g. drank your pint) and then offer payment. Can they legally refuse cash payment? It a contrived situation, I know.

As Neil says, the fact they sprung cashless on people after they bought their ticket makes things that much murkier.