Football 2015/16

[mjsell]

Out of interest what are people's proposed starting lineups for England at Euros, providing everyone is fit (I understand this wont be the case) ?

[ThomThomDrum]

Probably get as far as the quarter finals, and that would be about par given our resources.

 

With a population of about 55m or so England probably should have a better "par" for the Euros to be fair. 

[eFestivals]

When have we ever beaten Germany 5-3?

was it 5-2? Or was it 5-1, then? I remember we scored 5 (around a decade+ ago, with owen scoring at least one.

All depends on the draw for me, but England should get out of their group. Probably get as far as the quarter finals, and that would be about par given our resources.

we should get out of the groups given there's 24 teams in it, and 16 get out of the groups.

[TheGayTent]

With a population of about 55m or so England probably should have a better "par" for the Euros to be fair.

By resources I was referring to the current pool of players at England's disposal.

However, if you're going solely by population the quarters are still bang on. Russia and Turkey should have a much higher par though.

[eFestivals]

Out of interest what are people's proposed starting lineups for England at Euros, providing everyone is fit (I understand this wont be the case) ?

pretty much how it was for the first of these two games, tho with Sturridge instead of Kane, and Henderson instead of Milner. Perhaps a change at the back, too (tho not sure what).

[ThomThomDrum]

By resources I was referring to the current pool of players at England's disposal.

However, if you're going solely by population the quarters are still bang on. Russia and Turkey should have a much higher par though.

 

Fair enough yeah. I was only thinking Germany, France, Italy having a bigger pool. Forgot to think more eastward.

[ThomThomDrum]

was it 5-2? Or was it 5-1, then? I remember we scored 5 (around a decade+ ago, with owen scoring at least one.

 

 

5-1 back in 2001 qualifying for the WC. Owen got a hatrick, Gerrard and Hesky got the others. It was just after Liverpool won their "treble" followed by the charity shield and super cup. Heady days!  

[mjsell]

I'd have Englands' lineup for the Euros looking something like:

 

                    Hart

Clyne Smalling Stones Bertrand

        Wilshere  Henderson

                Barkley

Walcott                       Sterling

                Sturridge

 

But you know Hodgson will probably go with Cahill Baines, Carrick, Milner and Rooney in there.

Edited October 13, 2015 by mjsell

[TheGayTent]

For the purposes of balance, although I'd agree the Germans immense self belief takes them a long way, they were extremely fortunate to reach the final in 2002, and lost comfortably to the first decent side they faced in the knock out stages.

Paraguay, the US, and South Korea they faced.

England gave Brazil a much better game in the quarters, than Germany did in the final.

[TheGayTent]

I'd have Englands' lineup for the Euros looking something like:

Hart

Clyne Smalling Stones Bertrand

Wilshere Henderson

Barkley

Walcott Sterling

Sturridge

There's not one world class player in there. Hodgson needs to get them well organised doesn't he...

[mjsell]

There's not one world class player in there. Hodgson needs to get them well organised doesn't he...

 

I'd argue there is one, but I get your point.

 

I think that team has threats all over the pitch though, and yes with the right organisation can pose problems for even the best of teams.

[eFestivals]

There's not one world class player in there. Hodgson needs to get them well organised doesn't he...

from what he said about Walcott just before the first match, it didn't sound like he doesn't organisation at all. It's almost like he expects the player to pick up what he wants via telepathy.

But perhaps that was just him being an arse in an interview...?

Edited October 13, 2015 by eFestivals

[pink_triangle]

If I recall the last time England beat ze Germans in a competitive game (also a qualifier mind you) the whole world was told about it; it was front page news in England and they even made a friggin DVD about it...............

 

Germany then went on to the World Cup final and England didn't

 

I would be interested to know how many DVDs Germany have released of qualifying matches, I suspect 0!

 

For the purposes of balance, although I'd agree the Germans immense self belief takes them a long way, they were extremely fortunate to reach the final in 2002, and lost comfortably to the first decent side they faced in the knock out stages.

Paraguay, the US, and South Korea they faced.

England gave Brazil a much better game in the quarters, than Germany did in the final.

 

I would agree with all that, but many similar bigger nations have bombed out in the groups with relatively mediocre squads.  The draw was kind but Germany did what was needed, from memory it seemed at times a 2 man show (Kahn and Ballack) I think the latter missed the final suspended which was a big blow.

[mungo57]

I gave up on watching England football after the world cup.

I do agree though we play better footy without Roo in the team. He seems to try and do too much and ends up out of position too much.

[TheGayTent]

I would be interested to know how many DVDs Germany have released of qualifying matches, I suspect 0!

I would agree with all that, but many similar bigger nations have bombed out in the groups with relatively mediocre squads. The draw was kind but Germany did what was needed, from memory it seemed at times a 2 man show (Kahn and Ballack) I think the latter missed the final suspended which was a big blow.

Yes, think we're largely in agreement, I just felt the need to post given England get stick and Germany praise for the 2002 tournament. Yet both were beaten by the same side.

As for bombing out of the group stage - that was never going to happen when Germany's toughest test was Ireland. The very worst they could do was finish second.

[ThomThomDrum]

For the purposes of balance, although I'd agree the Germans immense self belief takes them a long way, they were extremely fortunate to reach the final in 2002, and lost comfortably to the first decent side they faced in the knock out stages.

Paraguay, the US, and South Korea they faced.

England gave Brazil a much better game in the quarters, than Germany did in the final.

 

To be fair in beating South Korea they did do something that was proving to be pretty ridiculously tough in that World Cup. Just ask Portugal, Italy and Spain..........

[pink_triangle]

To be fair in beating South Korea they did do something that was proving to be pretty ridiculously tough in that World Cup. Just ask Portugal, Italy and Spain..........

 

Although that was as much to do with some very favourable home officiating, as it was to the quality of the South Korea team.

[TheGayTent]

Although that was as much to do with some very favourable home officiating, as it was to the quality of the South Korea team.

Quite. Spain had 2 perfectly good goals ruled out. Italy should have had a penalty but instead had a man sent off. Portugal...well Portugal were Portugal and flattered to deceive as they often do.

[ThomThomDrum]

Although that was as much to do with some very favourable home officiating, as it was to the quality of the South Korea team.

 

Either way it was not as easy a task as it would have looked on paper

[pink_triangle]

Whatever people think about the expanded euros.  I hope this qualifying campaign puts an end to the silly talk about pre qualifying qualification. The likes of Wales, Northern Ireland, Albania, Iceland etc are teams which may have ended up in the loser group, yet they have all become competitive by playing in the normal system instead of the minnows.

 

There are a handful of nations who will never achieve anything (mainly due to low population) but there is no need to change the current system.  If people are inconvenienced having to play San Marino or Andorra then tough.

[The Nal]

Quite. Spain had 2 perfectly good goals ruled out. Italy should have had a penalty but instead had a man sent off. Portugal...well Portugal were Portugal and flattered to deceive as they often do.

 

Italy were taken to the cleaners by the officials in that tournament. The referee for the South Korea game was later arrested in JFK airport with 10 pounds of smack in his trousers.

[TheGayTent]

Italy were taken to the cleaners by the officials in that tournament. The referee for the South Korea game was later arrested in JFK airport with 10 pounds of smack in his trousers.

With a name like Byron it was always going to end it tears.

[mrtourette]

It depends what the objective of the tournament is, interestingly those who worry about the quality of the tournament suffering coincidentally seem to support the better teams.

To make more money of course. As I'm unlikely to see any of this money I'm not in the slightest bit interested in how it succeeds on that front. An expanded format for the finals that includes nearly half of the original entrants in no way improves the quality of the tournament, which is what I'm interested in. I'm under no illusion of what Uefa's objectives are (if that's what you're suggesting).

I'm sure if it was put to a vote of uefa members the new format would pass with comfort.

 

Well of course it bloody would, which nation would turn down a greater opportunity to qualify?

No doubt some of the new teams will stink the tournament out, but let's not forget the big boys also stink on occasions.

Yep, and if England were going to stink I'd rather see them stink in group games against France, Italy and Germany than limp through the group against Belgium, Northern Ireland and Romania (because of course as well as easier to qualify it's now easier to get out of the group stages) and then stink up the knock-out round/s.

[mrtourette]

Beating Germany. Thats what that was all about. Not hard to understand. And in doing so gave themselves a chance to qualify automatically, or via the play-offs, and its the play-offs now post the trip to Poland. Something that was thought not realistic after the results against Scotland earlier in the campaign.

 

If you think they are celebrating getting to the Euros then you are slow. Very slow. If you dont think the above is worthy of celebration then you dont know what its like to have a small nation team to support.

 

(I wonder what the English reaction would be if they beat the Germans?? Hmmmmmmmmmmm??)

Why would I think they were celebrating qualifying when they haven't? Very slow.

I've clearly overestimated the Republic of Ireland, if England beat Germany to secure a third-placed finish above Scotland, Georgia and Gibraltar as well as relief there would be a damn sight more apathy and negativity (I'm sure this is because the Irish have more passion for their country and their team, and are all round better people than the evil English, blah blah blah). You're right that I don't know what it's like to support a small nation team, the Republic of Ireland's status and goals have clearly taken a severe downturn that has passed me by.

Edited October 13, 2015 by mrtourette

[mrtourette]

I would agree with all that, but many similar bigger nations have bombed out in the groups with relatively mediocre squads.  The draw was kind but Germany did what was needed, from memory it seemed at times a 2 man show (Kahn and Ballack) I think the latter missed the final suspended which was a big blow.

Yeah it was a pretty poor tournament, England got out of the 'group of death' due to Argentina not showing up (although it was nice to see Trevor Sinclair have his day in the sun, and Heskey's goal against Demnark in the second round was a peach) and you're right that Germany were pretty functional, relying on Kahn, Ballack and Klose and a pretty easy draw. Only South Korea's run provided any kind of excitement really.