Football 2015/16

[GlastoSimon]

Salford can get the crowds in on a good day, so there's no particular reason to think that those crowds won't grow as the club progresses. It's not a guarantee of course, but there's something reasonable to work with.

But for the 'class of 92' I'm not really sure it's about progressing the club hugely (tho of course they'd like that if it happened). It looks to me that it's as much about 'giving something back' as it is anything else, and if 'success' was all they were wanting then they'd have been other better choices they could have made.

I'm no fan of Man Utd, but these guys have chosen to do something better than most ex-players for the sport they love.

If they're anything like Crawley, Fleetwood etc. those crowds will stop increasing if/when they reach League 1. The only thing they have going for them is the idea of Man United fans getting involved, which is a possibility I guess.

My problem with them is the drafting in of a Singaporean businessman, paying astronomical wages, paying transfer fees and contracting every player (all rare for the level they're playing at) whilst giving the impression that they're an underdog. The documentary portrayed them as small-time compared to fan-owned Darlington, who they pipped to the title. Simply not true. The first scorer on Friday night was playing League 2 football last season. 

Its not really any different to Tan at Cardiff, or the owners at Chelsea/City. As long as people accept that, then fair dos to the ex-United players. To consider them some kind of 'fairytale' though (not you Neil, but the media for example were bleating that on Friday) is a bit misguided I feel. 

Edited November 8, 2015 by GlastoSimon

[pink_triangle]

Salford can get the crowds in on a good day, so there's no particular reason to think that those crowds won't grow as the club progresses. It's not a guarantee of course, but there's something reasonable to work with.

But for the 'class of 92' I'm not really sure it's about progressing the club hugely (tho of course they'd like that if it happened). It looks to me that it's as much about 'giving something back' as it is anything else, and if 'success' was all they were wanting then they'd have been other better choices they could have made.

I'm no fan of Man Utd, but these guys have chosen to do something better than most ex-players for the sport they love.

As I have said I ignore their past and judge them on what they do and say. I could lean either way at present. My gut instinct is that it's a bit of a vanity project which will explode, but time will tell.

I wouldn't put too much stock in attendances on a "good day". Wrexham manage to find an extra 20k fans when they go to Wembley or  an extra 7k for a big cup game, very few stick around for the bread and butter of the average game.

If the owner of my club started talking about 25k stadiums then I would be terrified. look at the attendances of lower league northern clubs and they are generally small. If Salford move up the leagues they will take some additional fans, but will never grow a huge fanbase considering their starting point and the local competition. Fleetwood for example average 3500 in league 1. Rotherham are the smallest team in the championship and average 10000.  A club can't magic up fans and the class of 92 hype will lose its appeal. If Salford are pushed above their natural level the increased crowds will still be low in relation to their league.

Nothing about this project sounds sustainable to me. Of course clubs can be run unsustainably if the owners pump enough money in. Howeve experience at this level shows me that people eventually get fed up of losing money.

 

 

[pink_triangle]

If they're anything like Crawley, Fleetwood etc. those crowds will stop increasing if/when they reach League 1. The only thing they have going for them is the idea of Man United fans getting involved, which is a possibility I guess.

My problem with them is the drafting in of a Singaporean businessman, paying astronomical wages, paying transfer fees and contracting every player (all rare for the level they're playing at) whilst giving the impression that they're an underdog. The documentary portrayed them as small-time compared to fan-owned Darlington, who they pipped to the title. Simply not true. The first scorer on Friday night was playing League 2 football last season. 

Its not really any different to Tan at Cardiff, or the owners at Chelsea/City. As long as people accept that, then fair dos to the ex-United players. To consider them some kind of 'fairytale' though (not you Neil, but the media for example were bleating that on Friday) is a bit misguided I feel. 

I just can't see man Utd fans moving in significant numbers, especially when there has already been one offshoot club for disgruntled fans.

I have no problem (although feel some sympathy for fans who wanted to stay regional and share concerns for what happens if they lose interest) with an unsustainable model like fleetwood or forest green pushing a club above their natural level. However as you say it's no romantic underdog story and I think there's a danger their status means they will get a free ride from the media.

[Gucci Piggy]

As I have said I ignore their past and judge them on what they do and say. I could lean either way at present. My gut instinct is that it's a bit of a vanity project which will explode, but time will tell.

I wouldn't put too much stock in attendances on a "good day". Wrexham manage to find an extra 20k fans when they go to Wembley or  an extra 7k for a big cup game, very few stick around for the bread and butter of the average game.

If the owner of my club started talking about 25k stadiums then I would be terrified. look at the attendances of lower league northern clubs and they are generally small. If Salford move up the leagues they will take some additional fans, but will never grow a huge fanbase considering their starting point and the local competition. Fleetwood for example average 3500 in league 1. Rotherham are the smallest team in the championship and average 10000.  A club can't magic up fans and the class of 92 hype will lose its appeal. If Salford are pushed above their natural level the increased crowds will still be low in relation to their league.

Nothing about this project sounds sustainable to me. Of course clubs can be run unsustainably if the owners pump enough money in. Howeve experience at this level shows me that people eventually get fed up of losing money.

 

 

Just to add to your point, we averaged 8,420 in the Championship two seasons ago, and were getting crowds of sub-5,000 in some games, in a 15,000 seater stadium. Embarrassing, really.

[pink_triangle]

Just to add to your point, we averaged 8,420 in the Championship two seasons ago, and were getting crowds of sub-5,000 in some games, in a 15,000 seater stadium. Embarrassing, really.

I wouldn't say it's embarrassing, it's the reality of supporting clubs the size that we do. I think clubs have to be realistic about their potential fanbases. While we all dream of huge increases, they are rarely sustainable.

 

I remember seeing Wrexham play it away at Darlington, a 25,000 seater stadium and only 3000 fans. 15,000 is the maximum I would want us to go.

Edited November 8, 2015 by pink_triangle

[LJS]

I wouldn't say it's embarrassing, it's the reality of supporting clubs the size that we do. I think clubs have to be realistic about their potential fanbases. While we all dream of huge increases, they are rarely sustainable.

 

I remember seeing Wrexham play it away at Darlington, a 25,000 seater stadium and only 3000 fans. 15,000 is the maximum I would want us to go.

You should come & watch my team - Queens Park FC in the Scottish second division - average attendances around about 400 in the  51,866 capacity Hampden Park. you could describe the atmosphere as unique!

 

[Gucci Piggy]

I wouldn't say it's embarrassing, it's the reality of supporting clubs the size that we do. I think clubs have to be realistic about their potential fanbases. While we all dream of huge increases, they are rarely sustainable.

 

I remember seeing Wrexham play it away at Darlington, a 25,000 seater stadium and only 3000 fans. 15,000 is the maximum I would want us to go.

It does look a bit silly, though. Although in our first Championship season we were averaging around 12,000 and selling out on occasion, so I guess it was the right size stadium to build.

[pink_triangle]

It does look a bit silly, though. Although in our first Championship season we were averaging around 12,000 and selling out on occasion, so I guess it was the right size stadium to build.

And Bournemouth only want to go to 18,000 apparently which shows how mad it would be for Salford to go to 25k.

[pink_triangle]

You should come & watch my team - Queens Park FC in the Scottish second division - average attendances around about 400 in the  51,866 capacity Hampden Park. you could describe the atmosphere as unique!

 

Have they ever considered moving? Can you hear anything?

[LJS]

Have they ever considered moving? Can you hear anything?

They have a perfectly good "second" pitch next door - Lesser Hampden

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lesser_Hampden

 

But as Scotland's oldest team I don't think they want to give up Hampden Park our traditional home - it does give us a bit of an advantage too as most of our opponents are not used to the wide open spaces.

 

The noise is a bit echoey!!

[Dan R]

Everyone seems to be writing off Salford City in terms of growing fanbase but location will have a big part to play in that. A lot of championship sides are in smaller or more rural locations, rather than 20 minutes from the centre of Manchester.

There will be plenty of football fans who feel out priced and disenchanted by the two big manchester clubs and would enjoy professional local football. And if they could form a local rivalry with FC United that might build interest. If they slowly build up then  I don't see why they couldn't build a strong local fanbase eventually.

[pink_triangle]

Everyone seems to be writing off Salford City in terms of growing fanbase but location will have a big part to play in that. A lot of championship sides are in smaller or more rural locations, rather than 20 minutes from the centre of Manchester.

There will be plenty of football fans who feel out priced and disenchanted by the two big manchester clubs and would enjoy professional local football. And if they could form a local rivalry with FC United that might build interest. If they slowly build up then  I don't see why they couldn't build a strong local fanbase eventually.

You think a disenfranchised city fan will switch to either of 2 teams with strong man Utd connections?  Will fans of other local teams ( who generally have little love for man Utd switch) Look at fc United who get decent crowds, but it is a tiny proportion of man Utd fans. 

The likes of Bolton and lower down the pyramid Stockport have always struggled with having huge clubs on their doorstep. I don't se any demand for one closer.  Lower league clubs rely heavily on support passing from parent to child and a club with small fanbase suffers here.

I can't think of any clubs who have gone from hundreds of fans, to tens of thousands. I think if Salford succeed they will be a bankrolled low attendance team, not necessarily a problem if the money rolls in.

[GlastoSimon]

You think a disenfranchised city fan will switch to either of 2 teams with strong man Utd connections?  Will fans of other local teams ( who generally have little love for man Utd switch) Look at fc United who get decent crowds, but it is a tiny proportion of man Utd fans. 

The likes of Bolton and lower down the pyramid Stockport have always struggled with having huge clubs on their doorstep. I don't se any demand for one closer.  Lower league clubs rely heavily on support passing from parent to child and a club with small fanbase suffers here.

I can't think of any clubs who have gone from hundreds of fans, to tens of thousands. I think if Salford succeed they will be a bankrolled low attendance team, not necessarily a problem if the money rolls in.

Wigan maybe? That's the only side I can think of. Even they were getting 1500 or so in the 90's regularly. 

Salford would inevitably hit a ceiling, like Crawley, Fleetwood etc. Location might make it a higher ceiling, but not much in my opinion. 

[kingcrawler]

You should come & watch my team - Queens Park FC in the Scottish second division - average attendances around about 400 in the  51,866 capacity Hampden Park. you could describe the atmosphere as unique!

 

The first time I was at a Queens Park league match I found it bizarre because the only times I'd been to Hampden was for Scotland games or the odd cup final as a neutral so to see it so empty was just strange.

I support Airdrie and we get crowds of 700-800 in a 10,000 capacity stadium although obviously that's not as empty as Queens Park. It's a problem for quite a lot of Scottish teams to be honest, albeit mainly those who are/were full time. I'm glad they got rid of that ridiculous rule that stadiums had to be 10,000 capacity in the spl as that's the main reason why it's a problem for so many teams, Airdrie included.

[pink_triangle]

Wigan maybe? That's the only side I can think of. Even they were getting 1500 or so in the 90's regularly. 

Salford would inevitably hit a ceiling, like Crawley, Fleetwood etc. Location might make it a higher ceiling, but not much in my opinion. 

Wigans attendances have halved in the space of 2 years, nothing like a bit of loyalty. It wouldn't surprise me to see them a non league team within 10 years,  but that fa cup will always be  remembered.

[pink_triangle]

The first time I was at a Queens Park league match I found it bizarre because the only times I'd been to Hampden was for Scotland games or the odd cup final as a neutral so to see it so empty was just strange.

I support Airdrie and we get crowds of 700-800 in a 10,000 capacity stadium although obviously that's not as empty as Queens Park. It's a problem for quite a lot of Scottish teams to be honest, albeit mainly those who are/were full time. I'm glad they got rid of that ridiculous rule that stadiums had to be 10,000 capacity in the spl as that's the main reason why it's a problem for so many teams, Airdrie included.

One of my favourite things now Wrexham are non league is going to these smaller stadiums with a bit of atmosphere. I hate to see a 10k stadium with 3/4 empty.

The only Scottish ground I've been to was Inverness. I thought it had a lot of character, give me that over a modern flat pack English stadium any day.

[lost]

Twitter rumours Moyes has been sacked at Sociedad. New manager appointed before he's been told apparently. I wonder where he will end up?

Edited November 8, 2015 by lost

[Comfy Bean]

The first time I was at a Queens Park league match I found it bizarre because the only times I'd been to Hampden was for Scotland games or the odd cup final as a neutral so to see it so empty was just strange.

I support Airdrie and we get crowds of 700-800 in a 10,000 capacity stadium although obviously that's not as empty as Queens Park. It's a problem for quite a lot of Scottish teams to be honest, albeit mainly those who are/were full time. I'm glad they got rid of that ridiculous rule that stadiums had to be 10,000 capacity in the spl as that's the main reason why it's a problem for so many teams, Airdrie included.

Good set up at Airdrie with the plastic pitch etc. Took the weans along there a few years ago for their first away game. Always liked your old ground back in the day for atmosphere with the fans divided by the fence. Always a bit of needle with Ayr these days due to our ex chairman and your new ground. Anywayz, think your down the coast in a couple of weeks. Hopefully we`re still unbeaten 

[Comfy Bean]

They have a perfectly good "second" pitch next door - Lesser Hampden

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lesser_Hampden

 

But as Scotland's oldest team I don't think they want to give up Hampden Park our traditional home - it does give us a bit of an advantage too as most of our opponents are not used to the wide open spaces.

 

The noise is a bit echoey!!

It`s been a good few years since I went to Hampden for a league game. It`s echoey as you say !

I always thought it made sense to play there rather than the stadium lying empty every week. I love hampden, loads of great memories, but when you compare it to wembley and the millenium it`s pretty shit.

[kingcrawler]

Good set up at Airdrie with the plastic pitch etc. Took the weans along there a few years ago for their first away game. Always liked your old ground back in the day for atmosphere with the fans divided by the fence. Always a bit of needle with Ayr these days due to our ex chairman and your new ground. Anywayz, think your down the coast in a couple of weeks. Hopefully we`re still unbeaten 

I wasn't born until after the old ground was knocked down so never got to experience it sadly. 

I think we'll finish in the play-offs this season but will fall short of challenging Ayr and Dunfermline for the title. We seem quite solid defensively but our lack of creativity going forward means we struggle to break teams down at times, although it seems odd saying that given we won 3-2 yesterday

Not much of a surprise to see Ayr doing so well this season given how good their signings were in the summer, they signed our two best players anyway! Seem to have a well balanced squad with good options in most positions and a good manager at this level so even if they don't win the league I reckon they'll go onto win the play-offs.

[Comfy Bean]

I wasn't born until after the old ground was knocked down so never got to experience it sadly. 

I think we'll finish in the play-offs this season but will fall short of challenging Ayr and Dunfermline for the title. We seem quite solid defensively but our lack of creativity going forward means we struggle to break teams down at times, although it seems odd saying that given we won 3-2 yesterday

Not much of a surprise to see Ayr doing so well this season given how good their signings were in the summer, they signed our two best players anyway! Seem to have a well balanced squad with good options in most positions and a good manager at this level so even if they don't win the league I reckon they'll go onto win the play-offs.

Your making me feel old 

The main thing is our new manager as you say. Your old ground had great character with the pavilion type thing in the corner. Was up there a few times over the years. Should be a good game in a couple of weeks. Was surprised / happy to see Dunfermline`s goals dry up recently after the start they had.

 

[LondonTom]

Twitter rumours Moyes has been sacked at Sociedad. New manager appointed before he's been told apparently. I wonder where he will end up?

Chelsea

[The Placid Casual]

Edit: Sorted

 

Joined the fantasy league. I wasn't aware there was one until recently.

Edited November 9, 2015 by The Placid Casual

[eFestivals]

Everyone seems to be writing off Salford City in terms of growing fanbase but location will have a big part to play in that. A lot of championship sides are in smaller or more rural locations, rather than 20 minutes from the centre of Manchester.

There will be plenty of football fans who feel out priced and disenchanted by the two big manchester clubs and would enjoy professional local football. And if they could form a local rivalry with FC United that might build interest. If they slowly build up then  I don't see why they couldn't build a strong local fanbase eventually.

I'm wondering if part of the motivations behind Salford is to try and take the wind out of FC Utd .... after all, FC Utd's success will be Man Utd's embarrassment.

Twitter rumours Moyes has been sacked at Sociedad. New manager appointed before he's been told apparently. I wonder where he will end up?

Swansea. Monk is going to be sacked today, apparently.

[thetime]

I'm wondering if part of the motivations behind Salford is to try and take the wind out of FC Utd .... after all, FC Utd's success will be Man Utd's embarrassment.

didn't one of Liverpool or Everton start up by falling out with one of the other club.

I'm sure it was Everton.

 

I don't think its embarrassing, supporters who wasn't happy the way the club was run. Started one up themselves and its going great for them, faur play to them. I very much doubt the head bods at United are worrying to much.

Edited November 9, 2015 by thetime