Football 2015/16

[eFestivals]

29 minutes ago, zahidf said:

adam johnson has pleaded guilty for the paedo charges.

wow, despite there being a strong suggestion there was something to it at the time, I'd come to the conclusion that there probably wasn't as it had gone on so long.

That's him done then, I guess.

Edit: 'paedo' is perhaps a bit strong given that he supposedly met her in a club, where it can be a reasonable presumption she's 18 or older.

 

Edited February 10, 2016 by eFestivals

[mrtourette]

Yeah it would be best to wait for further details before using such accusational terms, although also admitting a charge of grooming isn't going to help.

[eFestivals]

1 minute ago, mrtourette said:

Yeah it would be best to wait for further details before using such accusational terms, although also admitting a charge of grooming isn't going to help.

yep, tho I think I'm right in saying that 'grooming' in legal terms can mean all sorts of different things, from going out of your way to entice a child towards you, to 'going along with' the approaches that might have come from a 15 year old who is pretending to be older (tho, I'd guess, for the charge to stick, he'd have to have become aware she was underage at some point in the communications).

The point is, there's a big difference in motivations between something that's purely predatory in entrapping someone underage, and going along with the approaches that might all be driven from the side of that underage someone.

And when that underage someone is someone who can (supposedly) easily get into a nightclub, it starts to look like nothing about "sex with a child", but about just about sex.

I'm not trying to defend any knowing-wrongness in his actions, but 'sex with a child' isn't always the same purely evil thing those words conjure up.

[eFestivals]

the story on the guardian has been updated with a bit more info.

It's implying that the 'sexual activity' was a kiss, and nothing more - tho reading between the lines it's suggesting he might have been after more.

http://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2016/feb/10/footballer-adam-johnson-pleads-guilty-to-sexual-activity-with-15-year-old-girl

[pink_triangle]

2 hours ago, eFestivals said:

wow, despite there being a strong suggestion there was something to it at the time, I'd come to the conclusion that there probably wasn't as it had gone on so long.

I guess from a financial perspective it was worth his while to drag it out as long as possible.

[eFestivals]

4 minutes ago, pink_triangle said:

I guess from a financial perspective it was worth his while to drag it out as long as possible.

Hmmm, not sure.

You know how the police/CPS wouldn't want to pursue a 16 year guy with a 15 y.o girlfriend for breaking the law if they have sex? Maybe there's a version of the same thing been going on around this.

I think I remember reading something a while back, about the girl's dad being insistent on pursuing Johnson, when the decision of the police might not have been to pursue him.

So perhaps the delay in getting things to court have been squabbles around that, where the police and CPS have been trying to persuade the family (perhaps just the dad) to drop it, but they (he) wouldn't?

After all, if the 'sexual activity' is just a kiss, while Johnson definitely hasn't been a good guy, does it need to be pursued 'in the public interest'? I don't think (if it's just that) there's a wider lesson for society in prosecution, tho there's a big lesson to be learnt by Johnson - and I'd guess he's already learnt that by the fuss so far.

So while you might be right about a financial aspect to it, it might be that it's the other way around, that someone has designs on Johnson's cash.

Above is just speculation really, tho it does seem pretty certain from what's been reported over the last year that he met her in a club - which isn't where you go to find a 'child'. I'm thinking there's probably something quite pertinent towards what happened within that.

[mrtourette]

4 hours ago, eFestivals said:

the story on the guardian has been updated with a bit more info.

It's implying that the 'sexual activity' was a kiss, and nothing more - tho reading between the lines it's suggesting he might have been after more.

http://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2016/feb/10/footballer-adam-johnson-pleads-guilty-to-sexual-activity-with-15-year-old-girl

Yeah, he's pleaded guilty to one charge regarding 'kissing and touching' but not guilty to two others - maybe those two were to do with sex.

[mrtourette]

5 hours ago, eFestivals said:

yep, tho I think I'm right in saying that 'grooming' in legal terms can mean all sorts of different things, from going out of your way to entice a child towards you, to 'going along with' the approaches that might have come from a 15 year old who is pretending to be older (tho, I'd guess, for the charge to stick, he'd have to have become aware she was underage at some point in the communications).

That was what I was thinking, to plead guilty to grooming he must have been aware that she was underage.

[eFestivals]

18 minutes ago, mrtourette said:

That was what I was thinking, to plead guilty to grooming he must have been aware that she was underage.

Yep. That part makes it undoubtedly wrong.

But, perhaps, a 14 year old girl who looked older hassling him cos he's famous is at one extreme of what 'grooming' might be here, and it's something very different to someone actively pursuing children which is what the word is most likely to conjure up.

(Note 'different'. Ultimately they end up as equally wrong as each other, but there's different reasons for how someone gets there, and any wider risks they might pose.)

[grumpyhack]

Back in the mists of time (arguably when we knew no better) bands had to fight off groupies - though they didn't always put up much of a fight.

The world has moved on and people should know better.

But we'll have to leave it up to a judge and jury who will hear the evidence in full to reach a verdict

[eFestivals]

9 minutes ago, grumpyhack said:

The world has moved on and people should know better.

Absolutely.

But I'm thinking there's probably not going to be a time when some men aren't misled by their dicks to do wrong things.

Which sounds more likely to be the case here than the out and out very nasty child abuse that some of the language inevitably used suggests.

That's not to excuse it, but it is a different thing, and with the amount of hysteria around some cases that distinction can get lost.

[pink_triangle]

2 hours ago, eFestivals said:

Absolutely.

But I'm thinking there's probably not going to be a time when some men aren't misled by their dicks to do wrong things.

Which sounds more likely to be the case here than the out and out very nasty child abuse that some of the language inevitably used suggests.

That's not to excuse it, but it is a different thing, and with the amount of hysteria around some cases that distinction can get lost.

Its funny when I was in my mid 20s and going to night club(only 10 years ago) there seemed to be a very different attitude to sex with a 15 year old.  It was very much a case of the bouncers have let them in, so there is the excuse.  I don't think anybody ever considered the chance of prosecution and I suspect I have friends who could have criminal records today.  It has to be considered a positive thing that societies views are changing. Is this something that is being prosecuted regularly, or does Johnson profile mean that he is more likely to be prosecuted. In my view the wealth and profile that  a premiership footballer has should come with extra responsibility, so I have little sympathy.

On another subject congratulations to the Liverpool fans who took part in the walkout. Proof that fanpower can work. 

[eFestivals]

9 hours ago, pink_triangle said:

Is this something that is being prosecuted regularly, or does Johnson profile mean that he is more likely to be prosecuted.

As I mentioned above, there's what the law says, and then there's the decision to prosecute "in the public interest".

But, because of what the law says, an individual (a parent) can force the CPS into taking action when the CPS's own decision might be to not-prosecute.

So there's all sorts of different reasons why someone might be prosecuted, not necessarily related to the severity of any offence.

9 hours ago, pink_triangle said:

On another subject congratulations to the Liverpool fans who took part in the walkout. Proof that fanpower can work. 

Yep, a job very well done.

The most interesting thing here is the precedent it sets for this, so it'll be interesting to see what happened in the future both with Liverpool and fort other clubs.

[TheGayTent]

Gutted for Samuelson last night - thought he was in the running for man of the match. A cracking cup tie. 

[jackarmy]

2 hours ago, TheGayTent said:

Gutted for Samuelson last night - thought he was in the running for man of the match. A cracking cup tie. 

Very good player, looks like he could be a star. 

Speaking of your academy products, what's happened with Reece Oxford? Had a cracking first game of the season, but noticed he played against our u21s last night?!

[TheGayTent]

He's still highly thought of but down the pecking order, and only 17 years old. 

In front of him and vying for the same positions are Noble, Kouyate, Song, and Obiang (who I'm amazed hasn't been spoken about more)

Oxford's time will come. I think Burke (currently on loan at Bradford) has a good chance of making the grade too. 

Edited February 11, 2016 by TheGayTent
Got his age wrong!

[eFestivals]

1 hour ago, jackarmy said:

Speaking of your academy products, what's happened with Reece Oxford? Had a cracking first game of the season, but noticed he played against our u21s last night?!

he was on the bench for the Liverpool match the night before (as long as the TV didn't lie).

 

[TheGayTent]

7 minutes ago, eFestivals said:

he was on the bench for the Liverpool match the night before (as long as the TV didn't lie).

 

He was - because Song was rested (Liverpool weren't the only team rotating...)

As were two other academy players - Cullen (another midfielder) and Parfitt-Williams (striker). 

[eFestivals]

6 minutes ago, TheGayTent said:

He was - because Song was rested (Liverpool weren't the only team rotating...)

As were two other academy players - Cullen (another midfielder) and Parfitt-Williams (striker). 

What did you think of Stewart the other night, just out of interest?

[mrtourette]

14 hours ago, pink_triangle said:

On another subject congratulations to the Liverpool fans who took part in the walkout. Proof that fanpower can work. 

Absolutely, also kudos to whoever in the club realised that the reaction meant something and prompted the turnaround. There are plenty of other high-profile (yes I originally wrote and then deleted 'big') clubs that would remain blinkered and follow through with similar plans.

[eFestivals]

Just now, mrtourette said:

Absolutely, also kudos to whoever in the club realised that the reaction meant something and prompted the turnaround. There are plenty of other high-profile (yes I originally wrote and then deleted 'big') clubs that would remain blinkered and follow through with similar plans.

Hmmm, I'm not sure.

Walking out makes clear you're prepared to miss the game, and it showed that it worked.

Compare and contrast with wearing Norwich scarves.

[mrtourette]

I have no idea what that means. I doubt very much if Chelsea or Man Utd fans pulled a similar stunt that the turnaround would be so swift and positive.

Edited February 11, 2016 by mrtourette

[eFestivals]

Just now, mrtourette said:

I have no idea what that means. I doubt very much if Chelsea or Man Utd fans pulled a similar stunt that the turnaround would be so swift.

Who knows?

I was pointing to the fact that Man Utd fans weren't prepared to do that when they were making their own protest about prices.

Perhaps if they had done they might have been successful.

Before last weekend I was thinking far fewer would be prepared to walk at Liverpool than did walk. I reckon the fact it was such a sizable number showing they were prepared to miss the game played a big part in Liverpool's quick change of heart.

[TheGayTent]

57 minutes ago, eFestivals said:

What did you think of Stewart the other night, just out of interest?

Not sure what the fuss is about really. He kept possession well and got about the pitch, but nothing more. Like most Tottenham players he's a bit of a dirty fucker and fully deserved his booking. 

At 22 it's hard to see him pulling up too many trees. I'd say he's far more likely to be a David Thompson than a Steven Gerrard. Heck, Mark Noble had 100 top flight appearances by the time he was Stewart's age. 

[mrtourette]

And look where it got him.