Football 2015/16

[eFestivals]

2 minutes ago, pink_triangle said:

Although for the sake of balance they qualified with a 100 percent record and Rooney scoring a lot of goals.

I find the amount of analysis about yesterdays game mad, I have always been of the opinion you can take little from friendlies. Germany have lost their last 3, Spain lost several in between winning 3 trophies. 

 

Yup. Plus they had a good goal ruled offside, so it was really 3-3. And they walked the ball into the net with ease, almost like they'd decided it was time to score a goal.

Our defence is shit ... tho it's probably true that Hart would have done better. And they were already on the bus home for our 3rd goal.

Very nice work by Kane and Vardy for the first 2 tho.

And Vardy's got to get loads of time on the pitch, too, if we're going to press like we did last night. He's a menace.

 

[pink_triangle]

53 minutes ago, Barry Fish said:

I think the intensiveness of the Premiership and extra fitness levels required have seldom been exploited by English players.  I made a comment last night about England looking stronger and fitter and I think with 30 mins to go that made something of a difference last night.

You think premiership players are fitter than those in the bundesliga? I wouldn't argue that the premiership is more intense, but I think this just means that players just as fit in other nations conserve energy better and get less burned out, rather than get disadvantaged by playing in a slower league.

An alternative hypothesis (i haven't watched England post world cup, so certainly no expert) Germany have lost their last 3 friendlies, while Spain also lost several in their peak years.  I suspect when you have reached the top of the tree , the motivation to win the meaningless games is less than those who haven't and see you as a scalp. Will world champions really expand that extra energy when it doesn't really matter.

[mjsell]

34 minutes ago, pink_triangle said:

An alternative hypothesis (i haven't watched England post world cup, so certainly no expert) Germany have lost their last 3 friendlies, while Spain also lost several in their peak years.  I suspect when you have reached the top of the tree , the motivation to win the meaningless games is less than those who haven't and see you as a scalp. Will world champions really expand that extra energy when it doesn't really matter.

Whilst I agree in some respects I think it is too simplistic to put down last nights result to lack of German effort. There are still players in that team that are fighting for their place -although admittedly not as many as for England - which by the way is the most refreshing thing to see as a England fan. The fact that we had the likes of Barkley and Vardy coming off the bench is great to see, one of the deepest/competetive squads I've seen for a while. 

Im expecting wholesale changes against the Netherlands and for once am looking forward to watching how they all do - haven't said that for a while. 

Edited March 27, 2016 by mjsell

[thetime]

2 hours ago, Barry Fish said:

I think its fair to say that England have being improving since the last tournament.

That's pretty standard, then the tournament arrives....

[philipsteak]

3 minutes ago, Scruffylovemonster said:

I agree that both sides will have wanted to win but the German players and public really don't see a game against England the way we do. For them, the equivalent is the Netherlands. They don't really care that much more about us than any other opposition. 

The reason Germans love to beat England is because they know it matters so much to us. A big wind up essentially

 

[pink_triangle]

1 hour ago, Barry Fish said:

 

I do disagree with your second paragraph basically saying the Germans would of lacked any motivation to win last night.  The German players and public view a game against England in the same light as we do regarding them.

I get the feeling you are falling into the negative narrative of saying same old England if they had lost last night while making up excuses not to give them credit when they win.

It was just a friendly, it is meaningless in the grand scheme, but sides still wanted to win last night and the winner deserves some measured credit.

 

I honestly don't think in 2016 Germany consider a friendly with England any different to one with Holland, Brazil or Argentina.  They are high profile matches, but the result is forgotten the next day.  I don't think the rivalry is close to what it was, every year we get further from the war and these players paths cross so often in modern football.  There may be a bit more rivalry from the fans perspective, but there certainly isn't the hatred you see in some of the old Balkan areas where wounds are a lot more fresh in the mind.

There is no way that it is just coincidence that these teams results drop off in games that don't matter. It may be wrong to say that the Germans don't care about losing, but possibly fairer to say they don't have the same motivation to win, I think someone (maybe Mertesacker) said something similar about their mediocre form before the England match.  When it comes to Germany I would completely ignore friendlies and mainly ignore qualifiers, they are a team you judge by the tournament.

Your point about my feelings about England being different if they had lost is completely wrong, I have never felt you can analyze international friendlies and probably never will. When getting through a match uninjured is a higher priority then winning, then what can you learn.  As I have said I don't believe Germany lose a 2-0 lead in a game that matters. In a way I do think same old England, I have never followed the emotional extremes that their fans and media follow. I think (and would the same if they had lost or lose the next game) England are about the 5th of 6th best in Europe which hasn't really changed significantly over the last 20 years.

[pink_triangle]

1 hour ago, mjsell said:

Whilst I agree in some respects I think it is too simplistic to put down last nights result to lack of German effort.

I agree that would be too simplistic.  History tells me that Germany are a side who peak when it matters, I don't think they will lose any sleep losing 3 friendlies in a row.  I would stand by my opinion that winning meant more to England (France and USA in the previous games) than it did to Germany, which is different to saying Germany went out to lose.

[DomDom1984]

Who cares what league is best? 

Just enjoy watching the football you watch.

[DomDom1984]

For the record,  Scottish football is the best. 

[LondonTom]

On 3/26/2016 at 0:06 PM, mjsell said:

 The fact that we had the likes of Barkley and Vardy coming off the bench is great to see, one of the deepest/competetive squads I've seen for a while. 

 

Well I wouldn't say its great, I'd say its part of the reason, we went 2 nil down in the first place

 

Meanwhile today West Ham celebrated a certain midfielder who would have also helped with that small problem..

[Gucci Piggy]

I hate football.

Today makes 16 games without a win for us and 6 consecutive losses. Ffs.

[ThomThomDrum]

I cant believe Woys salary!! The FA a suckers coughing up that much for him

€5m for a "part-time" job! Cushy!

[jump]

38 minutes ago, ThomThomDrum said:

I cant believe Woys salary!! The FA a suckers coughing up that much for him

€5m for a "part-time" job! Cushy!

Tbf it's only that high as the previous managers were on megabucks and it's still less than what they were earning.

[eFestivals]

37 minutes ago, jump said:

Tbf it's only that high as the previous managers were on megabucks and it's still less than what they were earning.

yep - it's more the consequence of the stupid amounts Sven and Postman Pat were paid.

They felt it would be disrespectful to label Woy as lesser via a lower salary when doing the same job, and I've got to say that's reasonable logic.

The problem is really in what Sven and Postman Pat were paid. Big money for big name managers didn't have England perform anything better than the long-term England average, and I think the myth of special skills is slowly being put to bed even if there might be the occasional exception. The exceptions certainly weren't those two.

Edited March 29, 2016 by eFestivals

[ThomThomDrum]

33 minutes ago, jump said:

Tbf it's only that high as the previous managers were on megabucks and it's still less than what they were earning.

I dont think he was in a position to demand such a high wage and the FA definitely did not have to say "yeah, this guy is worth paying for". He will be the highest paid manager at the Euros this Summer

Lows wage with a World Cup in his back pocket is €3.2m. del Bosque, with his World Cup and Euros (plus all that Madrid stuff!) in his back pocket gets paid €3m...............

Woy on €5m! Ha Ha! Ridiculous! 

[WS_Jack_III]

Rob Elliot injured tonight, knee injury. That's Newcastle relegation confirmed.

[pink_triangle]

6 hours ago, ThomThomDrum said:

I dont think he was in a position to demand such a high wage and the FA definitely did not have to say "yeah, this guy is worth paying for". He will be the highest paid manager at the Euros this Summer

Lows wage with a World Cup in his back pocket is €3.2m. del Bosque, with his World Cup and Euros (plus all that Madrid stuff!) in his back pocket gets paid €3m...............

Woy on €5m! Ha Ha! Ridiculous! 

I agree, its hard to believe he would have turned down 3 million. Its not like top clubs were competing for his signature 

[ThomThomDrum]

10 hours ago, pink_triangle said:

I agree, its hard to believe he would have turned down 3 million. Its not like top clubs were competing for his signature 

TBF he did pull Liverpool clear of the relegation zone before getting the sack and he then got West Brom to 10th. Id say Barca and Real Madrid were days away from picking up the phone, but then the pesky FA usurped them!  

The sparkle of those UEFA Cup runners up medals is irresistible!! 

Edited March 30, 2016 by ThomThomDrum

[mrtourette]

He had the FA over a barrel, everyone knew the only other alternative was Harry Redknapp so they paid top dollar to avoid that outcome.

[ThomThomDrum]

England............."the home of football" had only two options for national team manager!? Thats pretty pathetic.

Also Harry probably would have been the better option and he would have done it for far less. 

 

[eFestivals]

3 minutes ago, ThomThomDrum said:

England............."the home of football" had only two options for national team manager!? Thats pretty pathetic.

Also Harry probably would have been the better option and he would have done it for far less. 

 

Nope, mercenary 'Arry would have demanded more.

I don't think Woy deserves that high a wage, but neither did Sven or Postman Pat - who caused Woy to end up with that high a wage.

 

[TheGayTent]

We've signed a Valencia youth team player for over a million pounds. Football got mad decades ago but this does highlight it again for me. 

 

[TheGayTent]

The passing of Garde not been mentioned? Where's our token Villa fan with his thoughts? 

Wonder whether the next appointment will be on similar lines or whether they'll go for an experienced championship manager. Someone like Nigel Pearson? 

[mrtourette]

44 minutes ago, ThomThomDrum said:

England............."the home of football" had only two options for national team manager!? Thats pretty pathetic.

Also Harry probably would have been the better option and he would have done it for far less. 

 

Better? He's a fucking clown and would have been an embarrassment.

And who are you suggesting was an alternative to those two, bearing in mind the FA's cowardly bowing down to media and ruling out another foreign manager? Sam Allardyce? Alan Pardew?

Edited March 30, 2016 by mrtourette

[mrtourette]

On 3/26/2016 at 1:07 PM, pink_triangle said:

I honestly don't think in 2016 Germany consider a friendly with England any different to one with Holland, Brazil or Argentina.  They are high profile matches, but the result is forgotten the next day. 

I agree with your sentiment but you've picked the wrong example in Holland. In general German football fans have always found our obsession with them amusing and certainly never considered England as a rival to the degree that we saw them. Holland were always their main rivals.