Football 2015/16

[TheGayTent]

Bournemouth were robbed.

[thetime]

The officials are the usual high quality this season then.

Bournemouth robbed, palace yesterday and Villa Friday.

[kingcrawler]

Yep, two poor decisions from the referee. I thought Bournemouth looked ok but still think they'll go down. Similar to Burnley last year in that I don't think they'll get too many heavy defeats and performances will be ok but I don't think they're quite good enough for the Premier League yet.

[Gucci Piggy]

What happened with Palace and Villa? Haven't seen any full games this season.

Edit: But yeah, both decisions wrong tonight. Might have misunderstood but were Neville and Carragher saying that Lovren was clever by feigning he'd been fouled and that they'd have been happy if they were his manager?

Edited August 17, 2015 by Will-2609

[DomDom1984]

Referees are shite the world over. I have sympathy for them. They need help. One of the most high pressure jobs going, made worse by the likes of us watching their every move, and all sorts of cameras on them.

[Wooderson]

Might have misunderstood but were Neville and Carragher saying that Lovren was clever by feigning he'd been fouled and that they'd have been happy if they were his manager?

You understood perfectly.

[eFestivals]

Big club referee bias shows again?

 

Bournemouth were robbed.

 

Biased? I hope he was well-paid by Liverpool for that.

 

It was a great headed goal, no different to Kompany's on Sunday.

 

 

The officials are the usual high quality this season then.

Bournemouth robbed, palace yesterday and Villa Friday.

 

Eh? Palace robbed? How???

 

I saw that game and it was great, and Palace were very good, but they weren't robbed.

Edited August 18, 2015 by eFestivals

[TheGayTent]

Coquelin should have been given 3 yellow cards by the time Wenger subbed him.

[eFestivals]

Coquelin should have been given 3 yellow cards by the time Wenger subbed him.

 

ahh, yeah, forgot about that .... tho players getting extra chances like that isn't particularly unusual, particularly when the offences were at the milder end of things as was the case with those Coq incidents.

[ThomThomDrum]

One would expect Liverpools luck to find it difficult to come to the fore against Arsenal in London next week. They will actually have to begin to play some decent ball if they are to pick up any points there I suspect

 

One hope they have of course is that they catch them still in their early season warm up phase.............then anything can happen.

[DomDom1984]

I wasn't sure about the second potential coq incident but the third was baffling. Had a laugh when he was subbed seconds later.

[eFestivals]

I wasn't sure about the second potential coq incident but the third was baffling. Had a laugh when he was subbed seconds later.

 

I can't disagree that he was lucky, but you do see stuff like that pretty regularly.

 

 

One would expect Liverpools luck to find it difficult to come to the fore against Arsenal in London next week. They will actually have to begin to play some decent ball if they are to pick up any points there I suspect

 

One hope they have of course is that they catch them still in their early season warm up phase.............then anything can happen.

 

If Liverpool play as they've played in the first two games Arsenal will slaughter them.

 

But for the last two seasons Liverpool have been pretty good at raising their game for the bigger matches, and there were some promising signs of the team starting to gel last night, so they might get their act together.

 

I've got to say I was impressed with Beneteke yesterday, particularly in the 2nd half - a lot of movement and a lot of running and a lot of being interested in the game (Mario: take note!).... tho there was still plenty of lumping him the ball without any hope of him being able to do anything useful with it because no one was near him.

 

And they're soooo much better with Can on the pitch, and Hendo gives the team better options than Milner ... I can't see the middle pairing of Hendo and Milner lasting too long.

[The Nal]

Big club referee bias shows again?

 

Liverpool aren't a big club.

[TheGayTent]

Liverpool aren't a big club.

Maybe not when compared to the likes of Real Madrid, AC Milan, or West Ham United...however, they're significantly bigger than Bournemouth.

[eFestivals]

Maybe not when compared to the likes of Real Madrid, AC Milan, or West Ham United...however, they're significantly bigger than Bournemouth.

 

but perhaps it's just a ref's cock-up, rather than a conspiracy?

 

It's not like ref's haven't been known to cock it up, and while i think he got both 'goal' decisions wrong yesterday, both of those decisions can be justified within the rules. In both cases it's a grey-line decision on when an offence becomes too-much.

 

----

 

From Liverpool's point of view (at this moment; things may change), those two shaky wins suggest that things are panning out a bit differently this year, with things going their way. In the last couple of seasons they'd have probably lost those two games, as they've tended to lose or draw when they've not been right on their game.

[TheGayTent]

but perhaps it's just a ref's cock-up, rather than a conspiracy?

I didn't call it a conspiracy.

I'm in no doubt though there is big club bias particularly when the big club are at home. Nothing to do with a conspiracy, nothing to do with bent officials, just pressure, whether it be from tv and media, managers, the home crowd, whatever.

The biggest issue for me though is a separate one, and that is of culpability and accountability. There is currently none. Referees are policed by themselves and don't release the information they produce on themselves. Which frankly is ridiculous.

[eFestivals]

The biggest issue for me though is a separate one, and that is of culpability and accountability. There is currently none. Referees are policed by themselves and don't release the information they produce on themselves. Which frankly is ridiculous.

 

I don't disagree in theory, tho I don't see what benefit there is in making it any different whilst there's negatives from doing it differently.

 

If last night's ref said afterwards he called it wrong (which I'd hope he would) and that was made public, where's the benefit? All it does is give B'mouth a grudge, where there's no hope of any restorative justice.

 

And, from the other side (if he sticks with the decision he made), where's the benefit in that? It was, after all, a foul (tho about as weak as it gets, especially in that situation) - and any ref has to make a judgement over whether to call it or not. They'll always be instances where one person views it one way while others disagree, because there's no arbitrary line for these sorts of things.

 

I'd say that refs are able to review these things themselves (as they do) and give advice where changes are needed (as they do), and I don't see how extra voices - often driven by bias - would make that process any better.

 

I'm happy for refs to acknowledge their mistakes privately to managers and players - which they often (mostly?) do - but I don't see the need for anything more than that.

 

Even technology couldn't give a 'indisputably right decision' for last night's incidents. It was a foul or not, and it was offside or not, but there is no only-right answer. Grey areas are grey areas because they are disputable decisions depending on a point of view.

[The Nal]

Surely its the lineman who fucked up? Did he forget the new rule?

[eFestivals]

Surely its the lineman who fucked up? Did he forget the new rule?

 

i'd guess that the linesman wasn't able to see how close Coutinho was to the ball from his side view of things.

 

"interfering with play" is always a grey-area thing by its nature. Unless we revert to the original offside rule it's always going to be a judgement call rather than an indisputably right or wrong decision.

[TheGayTent]

The point is that professional referees are completely unanswerable for their actions.

Which is why incompetent referees make terrible decision after terrible decision without any meaningful action taken against them.

If we changed the system, you would get better referees and more correct decisions.

That has to benefit all....

...other than perhaps incompetent referees and 'big' clubs obviously...

[The Nal]

i'd guess that the linesman wasn't able to see how close Coutinho was to the ball from his side view of things.

 

Any attempt to play the ball is offside now though. Close or not. The keeper was clearly distracted as were the defenders who pushed up. Looks like the lineman didn't implement (or know?) the new rule. Seems Coutinho didn't either.

 

A player is interfering with play if hes standing offside, near the ball or not. The defenders are aware of him there and are affected, even if the ball is on the other side of the pitch.

Edited August 18, 2015 by The Nal

[eFestivals]

The point is that professional referees are completely unanswerable for their actions.

Which is why incompetent referees make terrible decision after terrible decision without any meaningful action taken against them.

If we changed the system, you would get better referees and more correct decisions.

That has to benefit all....

...other than perhaps incompetent referees and 'big' clubs obviously...

 

Nice words, but how would the ref last night make a better decision last night by being answerable to you today?

 

Or even by being answerable to a 'refs committee' today?

 

The only thing that you, or a refs committee, can do is try to explain to him why last night's decision was the wrong call, and hope that he gets it right next time.

 

The only "meaningful action" that can be taken against the ref is to stop him reffing games - which doesn't lead to any better decisions, ever.

 

If we changed the system, we're still stuck with refs having to make judgements calls over grey areas, and the very fact of them being grey areas means there is no perfect decision to have had.

 

So absolutely nothing pans out any differently to how it does now.

 

Sorry to piss on your fireworks. Perhaps buy waterproof ones next time?

[Gucci Piggy]

I don't even get what's changed. Surely Coutinho would have been offside last season for interfering with play?

[eFestivals]

Rules have changed over "interfering" now though. If you attempt to play the ball you are offside this season.

 

yep, i'm aware of that.

 

Which makes it a judgement call of a grey area, from which there can never be a perfect decision.

 

Because .... when is someone trying to play the ball? When he swings his leg when he's 6 inches away from the ball, or when he swings his leg when he's 60 yards away from the ball?

 

(my opinion is that the ref called it wrong last night; I'm merely pointing out that it's a judgement call and not an arbitrary line where there is always a definitive right and wrong)

[The Nal]

I don't even get what's changed. Surely Coutinho would have been offside last season for interfering with play?

 

Probably yeah but one of the main reasons for it is those looping free kicks that pass players in offside positions and find their way into the far corner as the keeper and defenders are distracted by the offside attackers. Bolton did it for an entrire season.

 

Like Smalling here, this was ok because he didn't touch it.

 

 

Anyway, lineman, FFS!

 

Benteke goal for Liverpool v Bournemouth stands despite being offside under new rules [Tweets] /WDMWStrIEy pic.twitter.com/7s3eL4gkWD

— 101 Great Goals (@101greatgoals)

August 17, 2015

Edited August 18, 2015 by The Nal