Football 2015/16

[Celery]

I think Costa has given himself a major problem this weekend. He isn't going to get away with it in the short term, refs are going to be watching him like a hawk.

In the same way divers like young are scrutinized by refs more closely. Will be amazed if Costa doesn't get sent off in the next few weeks.

I couldn't disagree with that. Amazing to think he's not had a red card for 3yrs with the way he plays. As he says, 'I go to war'. 

[Celery]

This wasn't your first point.

Eh? Chelsea being bankrolled by a Russian oligarch has allowed them to qualify for the Champions League. The riches of the Champions League has allowed Chelsea to grow the gap between themselves and their English rivals.

I'm a c**t for not being grateful for Chelsea being successful in Europe? Righto

You have a short memory. We qualified for the CL and were 4 points from winning the league before Roman came in. Chelsea also won more in the 10yrs before Abramovich than Arsenal have won in the last 10. 

[Celery]

I'm liking the look of the guy. His finishing is superb.

 

Oh, and the only people who should care how Chelsea do in Europe are Chelsea supporters. Just expecting someone else to do so is dick behaviour.

Not really my point but never mind. The success of English teams in Europe affects all the English teams who aspire to reach the CL. A rational mind would therefore want the other teams to be relatively successful in order to preserve our 4 spaces. Is that easier to comprehend?

[Celery]

So your saying that the actions of teams that you aren't playing against justifies the conduct of your players in games they are playing in? Genius.

Nope, not at all but you can interpret it that way if it makes you feel superior. Costa was playing physically (nothing wrong with that) and on the wind up (or that). Other teams were smart enough not to rise to it but Arsenal were completely naive, even though everyone who watches European football knows what he's like. For me, the only thing he did wrong was whinge to the ref and try and get an opponent booked. 

[Celery]

More to the point, why would klopp go to Liverpool?

He wants a challenge, loves passionate support and said he wouldn't go to a top club. Perfect fit imho but not convinced it will happen. 

[Gucci Piggy]

Nope, not at all but you can interpret it that way if it makes you feel superior. Costa was playing physically (nothing wrong with that) and on the wind up (or that). Other teams were smart enough not to rise to it but Arsenal were completely naive, even though everyone who watches European football knows what he's like. For me, the only thing he did wrong was whinge to the ref and try and get an opponent booked.

That's not just what he was doing, though. He had his hands in Koscielny's face twice, took a swing at him (remember the uproar when Andy Carroll did similar recently?), barged him to the floor and scratched Gabriel in the neck. If the ref had seen and taken action against even half of this he'd have been off. He definitely did worse than Gabriel, but Gabriel was stupid enough to do it in front of the ref.

Also the way he's in the ref's face trying to get him to brandish cards every time someone touches him. He's like a little nobhead from school who tries to act tough then runs the teacher for protection of anyone fights back. Fair enough, at least you acknowledge this part.

Again, just because people know what he's like, that doesn't mean he should get away with it. What kind of dumbass logic is that?

[Celery]

That's not just what he was doing, though. He had his hands in Koscielny's face twice, took a swing at him (remember the uproar when Andy Carroll did similar recently?), barged him to the floor and scratched Gabriel in the neck. If the ref had seen and taken action against even half of this he'd have been off. He definitely did worse than Gabriel, but Gabriel was stupid enough to do it in front of the ref.

Also the way he's in the ref's face trying to get him to brandish cards every time someone touches him. He's like a little nobhead from school who tries to act tough then runs the teacher for protection of anyone fights back. Fair enough, at least you acknowledge this part.

Again, just because people know what he's like, that doesn't mean he should get away with it. What kind of dumbass logic is that?

'Took a swing at him' is pushing it a bit far. He pushed him in the face and threw an arm backwards, both while not looking in the direction. I don't know if you were at the game but as someone who was you'd have seen Koscielny grabbing and pulling at him every time the ball came into the box. Not as if it was a premeditated elbow to the face. Koscielny, to his credit, didn't react much and took it like a man. And it wasn't a barge to the floor, he stood chest to chest to him and came off better as he's a bigger unit. The Gabriel thing, i don't think was a deliberate scratch, more him hurling an arm around when he got involved in something that didn't involve him. I've not said he shouldn't have got a red, the combo of the two arm throws should have earn't him a red. He got lucky, but far far worse has happened to him this season - eg Fernandinho deliberately elbowing him with no repercussions even though it was caught on TV. Why on earth was that not given such media coverage when the intent and severity of the hit was far, far more clearcut? 

My 'dumbass logic' is that as someone who grew up playing on the backstreets in Brazil, he's just very physical, not viciously violent. I'm presuming you've grown up with football from the 2000s but to those of us who remember before that this kind of stuff happened every week, and still happens occasionally. It's a man's game and physical contact shouldn't be frowned upon. I fucking love it when a few tough challenges go flying in and the game gets toasty - makes for a far better spectacle. Arsenal, however, are totally lacking this element to their play which possibly explains why they've won (almost) bugger all over the past decade. 

[pink_triangle]

Not really my point but never mind. The success of English teams in Europe affects all the English teams who aspire to reach the CL. A rational mind would therefore want the other teams to be relatively successful in order to preserve our 4 spaces. Is that easier to comprehend?

Most football fans have no aspiration of champions league football. I would rather see less places personally.

[Celery]

Most football fans have no aspiration of champions league football. I would rather see less places personally.

Fair enough. Each to their own. But from my perspective I like to see English teams doing well in Europe. I was pretty gutted when Saints flopped earlier this season and though the recent Arsenal result was amusing, I still want them to qualify and have a decent run. Others may prefer to see English teams fail, I guess that just comes down to your personality. I'm not judging you personally, but I just think it's a bit sad when fans take delight in the failure of others. 

I would also add that the further English teams go in Europe, the more likely they are to drop points in the PL which I think makes for a more exciting competition. The PL is far more interesting now that when it was just Utd and Arsenal battling it out, though i guess many of you would disagree. 

Edited September 21, 2015 by Celery

[pink_triangle]

Fair enough. Each to their own. But from my perspective I like to see English teams doing well in Europe. I was pretty gutted when Saints flopped earlier this season and though the recent Arsenal result was amusing, I still want them to qualify and have a decent run. Others may prefer to see English teams fail, I guess that just comes down to your personality. I'm not judging you personally, but I just think it's a bit sad when fans take delight in the failure of others.

I would also add that the further English teams go in Europe, the more likely they are to drop points in the PL which I think makes for a more exciting competition. The PL is far more interesting now that when it was just Utd and Arsenal battling it out, though i guess many of you would disagree.

Would you support increasing the number of english teams then? What makes 4 the optimun number? To me it rewards mediocrity and breeds complacency.

As a neutral I want to see good football regardless of nationality and a healthy mix of nations. I don't think the english teams have contributed a great deal to the tournament, despite several victories I don't think an english team has ever performed above average in a final.

[Celery]

Would you support increasing the number of english teams then? What makes 4 the optimun number? To me it rewards mediocrity and breeds complacency.

As a neutral I want to see good football regardless of nationality and a healthy mix of nations. I don't think the english teams have contributed a great deal to the tournament, despite several victories I don't think an english team has ever performed above average in a final.

No, 4 is enough since I believe it's a fair amount considering the size of the competition and the status and level of the PL. The mix of nations is fine, we don't want any more mediocre teams from Cyprus or wherever. The fact that English teams normally get out of the group stage indicates the number is about right. The fact that they rarely progress significantly further is down to many, many other reasons. The major one being the higher competition between PL teams in general meaning less 'gimme games' in the league where top players can be rested; as this is increasing, I expect it to have an even greater negative effect on the success of EPL teams in the CL. Hopefully there will be the odd exception along the way but i'm doubtful. Having some sort of mid-season break may help things but there's no way of knowing unless we give it a try. 

[TheGayTent]

You have a short memory. We qualified for the CL and were 4 points from winning the league before Roman came in. Chelsea also won more in the 10yrs before Abramovich than Arsenal have won in the last 10.

Let me get this correct...Chelsea scraped into the Champions League in 4th place once prior to the arrival of Abramovich. Finishing 16 points behind the Champions. The success in the seasons following, the league wins, the Champions League wins, the continual qualifying for the Champions League etc, has nothing to do with Abramovich? Also, whether it was or wasn't a factor, other clubs should be grateful to Chelsea for their success?

Never has the chant 'You're not Chelsea anymore' been more appropriate...

It is not me that has the short memory. You are the one that has your dates wrong.

Edited September 21, 2015 by TheGayTent

[pink_triangle]

 

The fact that they rarely progress significantly further is down to many, many other reasons. The major one being the higher competition between PL teams in general meaning less 'gimme games' in the league where top players can be rested; as this is increasing,

 

That may be the reason sky or the tabloids give for the best teams in "the greatest league in the world" failing, but I think its a load of rubbish.  This didn't stop the English teams when they were pretty dominant (in terms of results and not performances) in the mid 2000s.  In my view the English sides have regressed, while 2 Spanish clubs have hovered up the best players and the rest have been spread far more evenly as richer clubs from other nations have emerged.

[Celery]

That may be the reason sky or the tabloids give for the best teams in "the greatest league in the world" failing, but I think its a load of rubbish.  This didn't stop the English teams when they were pretty dominant (in terms of results and not performances) in the mid 2000s.  In my view the English sides have regressed, while 2 Spanish clubs have hovered up the best players and the rest have been spread far more evenly as richer clubs from other nations have emerged.

Oh I'm not saying we haven't regressed. We certainly have. The peak season imho was 2008, i think, when it was a Chelsea Utd final. Both were incredibly strong teams. There wasn't the same competition in the league mid 2000s, you only need to look at the massive increase in TV rights since then to see why. The average PL teams have so much more money these days than the average spanish/ German/ Italian teams that they are able to buy players of a higher level. Just look at some of the players they are buying to see this evidenced. West Ham are in the top 20 earning clubs in the world, having finished 12th last season, and bought a player of Payet's quality. Is he much worse than the players Chelsea and Utd are buying - i certainly don't think so. You have to splash £50m ish to get to the next level of Sterling and KDB. The gap between the top and bottom of the PL is decreasing whereas it is increasing in other countries. I'm not saying we have the greatest league quality-wise but it's the most competitive, which in turn means the top Pl teams are more drained than their foreign counterparts as the season goes on, leading to disappointing performance in the knock out phases. Just my opinion mind, but there is a lot of evidence to back it up. 

[Gucci Piggy]

I'd rather have a more interesting league than have English teams be more competitive in Europe so I'm happy with how it is. Must be awful to be a fan in Germany where the league winner is known before a ball's been kicked.

[TheGayTent]

I'd rather have a more interesting league than have English teams be more competitive in Europe so I'm happy with how it is. Must be awful to be a fan in Germany where the league winner is known before a ball's been kicked.

Dortmund are top at the moment but I see your point.

[Celery]

Let me get this correct...Chelsea scraped into the Champions League in 4th place once prior to the arrival of Abramovich. Finishing 16 points behind the Champions. The success in the seasons following, the league wins, the Champions League wins, the continual qualifying for the Champions League etc, has nothing to do with Abramovich? Also, whether it was or wasn't a factor, other clubs should be grateful to Chelsea for their success?

Never has the chant 'You're not Chelsea anymore' been more appropriate...

It is not me that has the short memory. You are the one that has your dates wrong.

Please do get it correct. Unfortunately you have not. You will feel very foolish when you fact-check your post. The words 'egg' and 'face' spring to mind. Having had a season ticket since the 90s, I am very aware of our success in the Bates era. 

And i have never said Roman has nothing to do with our success so please don't try and create fake arguments. I merely pointed out that we were successful beforehand. As i said earlier, we won far more in the 10yrs before Roman than Arsenal have in the last decade. Trust me, i know what I am talking about. The 90s Chelsea is the one I grew up with and began supporting. 

 

Now go do some googling and come back to me when you have a valid point to make. Until then, I shall bow out of this conversation with you. 

Peace and love x

[Celery]

I'd rather have a more interesting league than have English teams be more competitive in Europe so I'm happy with how it is. Must be awful to be a fan in Germany where the league winner is known before a ball's been kicked.

Does it have to be either/ or though? I'd like a competitive league AND English teams doing well in Europe. 

[TheGayTent]

I suggest you do some research about your own club and come back to admit your mistake...

You were not 4 points from the league pre Roman. You finished 4th a long long way off then pace in the 02/03 season. He took over that summer.

I eagerly await your apology Mr Chelsea supporter

Edited September 21, 2015 by TheGayTent

[Celery]

I suggest you do some research about your own club and come back to admit your mistake...

You were not 4 points from the league pre Roman. You finished 4th a long long way off then pace in the 02/03 season. He took over that summer.

I eagerly await your apology Mr Chelsea supporter

I'll give you a clue. 1998/1999. 

I look forward to you backing out of that one Mr West Ham supporter. 

 

I could tell you all sorts about that season. About how the league was in our hands but we bottled it against Leicester with 10mins to go, with a Duberry own-goal and a Steve Guppy injury time equaliser. And how your own team beat us 1:0 at the Bridge, against all expectations. Had we won those games, we would have been champions. 

Edited September 21, 2015 by Celery

[pink_triangle]

Oh I'm not saying we haven't regressed. We certainly have. The peak season imho was 2008, i think, when it was a Chelsea Utd final. Both were incredibly strong teams.

I generally hate it when 2 teams from the same country play each other in the champions league. That was one stinker of a final!! Actually from memory Chelsea were also involved in some champions league stinkers with Liverpool. Now I think of it IM struggling to think of an enjoyable Chelsea champions league game. Im sure in all these years there must have been one, but nothing comes to mind at present.

Just my opinion mind, but there is a lot of evidence to back it up.

I think its a bit contradictory to say that its an opinion, but theres a lot of evidence to back it up. There is no evidence to support the fact that a mid table premiership side is better than a mid table Spanish one. They may have bigger wage bills and transfer budgets, but they also waste more money.

[pink_triangle]

Does it have to be either/ or though? I'd like a competitive league AND English teams doing well in Europe.

I don't get why people automatically support clubs (other than their own) from their own country. I want to see teams play good football, couldn't care less if they are from England, spain or Albania.

[Celery]

I generally hate it when 2 teams from the same country play each other in the champions league. That was one stinker of a final!! Actually from memory Chelsea were also involved in some champions league stinkers with Liverpool. Now I think of it IM struggling to think of an enjoyable Chelsea champions league game. Im sure in all these years there must have been one, but nothing comes to mind at present.

I think its a bit contradictory to say that its an opinion, but theres a lot of evidence to back it up. There is no evidence to support the fact that a mid table premiership side is better than a mid table Spanish one. They may have bigger wage bills and transfer budgets, but they also waste more money.

There have been many. 4:4 against Liverpool not entertaining enough? In fact that was the same season we played Utd in the final, I think.  And several against Barca. The 3:1 and 4:2 wins are 2 of my favourite games ever. And just last season we won 5:0 and 6:0 but those results may have passed you by. Although i'll accept comfortable Chelsea wins aren't really enjoyable for someone who doesn't support Chelsea. 

The part you quoted was my opinion which was based on facts I posted (about money) to support it. Tbh, i'm starting to think you're just trying to be contrary for the hell of it. I posted a well reasoned opinion supported by facts and you have edited it to score points or something, I dunno. At least be fair to my point when debating or don't bother. 

[TheGayTent]

I'll give you a clue. 1998/1999.

I look forward to you backing out of that one Mr West Ham supporter.

I could tell you all sorts about that season. About how the league was in our hands but we bottled it against Leicester with 10mins to go, with a Duberry own-goal and a Steve Guppy injury time equaliser. And how your own team beat us 1:0 at the Bridge, against all expectations. Had we won those games, we would have been champions.

That's as relevant as being barred from the European cup in 1956...

However, I'll play your game...if you really want to go down this route do you wish to explain the dramatic improvement in your clubs fortunes from 11th to 3rd...and how you suddenly financed the signings of Desailly, Zola, Ferrer, Casiraghi et al...when previously it'd been the likes of Frank Sinclair, Gavin Peacock, and Nigel Fleck...?

[Celery]

That's as relevant as being barred from the European cup in 1956...

However, I'll play your game...if you really want to go down this route do you wish to explain the dramatic improvement in your clubs fortunes from 11th to 3rd...and how you suddenly financed the signings of Desailly, Zola, Ferrer, Casiraghi et al...when previously it'd been the likes of Frank Sinclair, Gavin Peacock, and Nigel Fleck...?

Is that an apology I hear? Or even a gracious backing down and an acceptance that you were wildly incorrect? No? Ok, we'll leave it there then. No point in debating with someone who's not man enough to admit their mistakes.