Football 2015/16

[TheGayTent]

Hmm last night answered a few questions and not in a positive way. Albeit unsurprising.

Leicester played well particularly given it was largely their second string. Pity the referee ignored the rules or is blind but that said performance wise Leicester fully deserved their victory.

One thing to note - there seems to be a bit of a step change in that teams seem to be taking the league cup more seriously this season given the strength of many starting line ups. Will be interesting to see if that continues tonight. I hope so, it gives it more weight.

[jackarmy]

Motherwell

 

Great performance tonight from Morton to cause a wee bit of an upset. Alex Samuel from Swansea looks like a cracking player.

 

Really? That's good to hear - we haven't produced a decent centre forward since Dean Saunders. How's his overall play?

[pink_triangle]

 

Motherwell

 

Great performance tonight from Morton to cause a wee bit of an upset. Alex Samuel from Swansea looks like a cracking player.

Was Lewis Moult playing for motherwell? He seems to have made the conference/spl transition really well.

[jackarmy]

 

Was Lewis Moult playing for motherwell? He seems to have made the conference/spl transition really well.

 

Lots of players do, friend of mine went from Hereford up to Inverness - had two great seasons up there and ended up on a really good deal at Barnsley.  

 

I'm not sure whether this says more about the standard of Conference/SPL, or the quality of scouting out there...

[pink_triangle]

 

Lots of players do, friend of mine went from Hereford up to Inverness - had two great seasons up there and ended up on a really good deal at Barnsley.  

 

I'm not sure whether this says more about the standard of Conference/SPL, or the quality of scouting out there...

 

I think its a realistic step. One of Wrexham players Curtis Obeng (not sure if he ever made your radar) joined Swansea. He went from one of the best players in the conference, to a player who couldnt find a league 2 team within a few years. The SPL at least offers players opportunity to play and develop.

[The Nal]

Class from Fergie

 

[jackarmy]

 

 

I think its a realistic step. One of Wrexham players Curtis Obeng (not sure if he ever made your radar) joined Swansea. He went from one of the best players in the conference, to a player who couldnt find a league 2 team within a few years. The SPL at least offers players opportunity to play and develop.

 

Aye, I remember Obeng. Had high hopes for him, considering we paid twice as much for him as Neil Taylor.

 

But the problem with these players coming into Premier League development squads is they think they've made it before they've barely kicked a ball - he spent most of his 4 seasons down here driving round in fast sports cars and turning up for training. I think he described it as "what a waste of 4 years", that's true for both player and club...

[mrtourette]

Class from Fergie

 

 

Yawn. Has this c**t got another book out or something?

[pink_triangle]

 

Aye, I remember Obeng. Had high hopes for him, considering we paid twice as much for him as Neil Taylor.

 

But the problem with these players coming into Premier League development squads is they think they've made it before they've barely kicked a ball - he spent most of his 4 seasons down here driving round in fast sports cars and turning up for training. I think he described it as "what a waste of 4 years", that's true for both player and club...

 

Im not even sure if he is still playing football, his wikipedia page hasnt been updated. Such a waste of talent and it demonstrates that the big move isnt always right. Some players just need to play and the SPL offers that opportunity.

Interestingly we have a decent sell on percentage for Neil Taylor, every season he is linked with a move to another mid/low premiership side and every season he stays!

[mjsell]

Unfortunately he's right. The fans (me included (I'm not an Arsenal fan I just mean football fan)) don't agree, but Arsene has to answer to his bosses. And for them, especially with the new stadium et al, top 4 was the benchmark. You're forgetting that's it's a busines these days and there are two measures of success. Unfortunately, the fans' and owners' wishes rarely coincide.

 

I 100% agree that arsenal is run too much like a business however when another club, without billionaire backing, funds a multimillion pound new stadium whilst remaining in the top 4 (to help keep funding such move) and win trophies, then I'll feel like the last 10 years has been an unsuccessful one.

 

Wenger was the perfect man for that job (I believe he is as much the reason arsenal is run like a business as the board), what he has to prove now is that he can use the stability of the last ten years to push on. This is where many arsenal fans see Wenger failing, and why he is losing support more and more each season

 

Edit: before this season I would have placed myself in the pro-wenger camp, the summer transfer window just gone has had a huge impact on that. He has a lot to prove to me this year to keep me onside

Edited September 23, 2015 by mjsell

[pink_triangle]

 

Edit: before this season I would have placed myself in the pro-wenger camp, the summer transfer window just gone has had a huge impact on that. He has a lot to prove to me this year to keep me onside

The trouble is the unknown of changing a manager. As I have said earlier clubs with the 4th biggest wage budget in the league are not winning titles in any of the major (possibly even the minor) leagues throughout Europe. I suspect several are occasionally finishing 5th though.

[Gucci Piggy]

You've bought Wenger's line that top 4 is a trophy, hook, line and sinker. Most Arsenal fans wouldn't agree. I know several with season tickets and they all consider that period a huge failure. Again, each to their own, but I think you should be more ambitious. In 20yrs time, are you going to reminisce about the cup wins, or the year you qualified from the group stage and lost to an average Milan team, for example.

On another note, it was good to hear most of the journalists on the Game podcast basically saying all the same things I had said about Costa. But some of you would probably just say they are c***s/ scumbags/ whatever else i've been called.

I'm not saying top 4 is a trophy, but top 4 was the main objective and it was the most important thing that he achieved this each season, to maintain the club at the level they were at. Yeah a couple of trophies may have been nice, but they took a backseat through that period out of necessity.

Again, I don't support Arsenal, so I won't be reminiscent about either of those things; I just think Wenger is judged unfairly through that time by many people who don't consider the full picture.

As mjsell says above, though, his test is whether he can kick on now and I'm not sure he can. He keeps saying he'll only buy exceptional players who become available (fair enough in the case of Cech), but it was unbelievably obvious that he needed another decent option in defensive midfield and up front (maybe not now if he's going to use Walcott there full time).

Players like Kondogbia, Schneiderlin and Khedira have moved this Summer and could have been acted on.

Same with strikers like Mandzukic, Jackson Martinez, Dybala and Bacca.

They may not be as much of an upgrade on the first team as their price tag would suggest, but if Coquelin gets a decent length injury this season (he obviously will do) they're completely fucked.

[mjsell]

I'm not saying top 4 is a trophy, but top 4 was the main objective and it was the most important thing that he achieved this each season, to maintain the club at the level they were at. Yeah a couple of trophies may have been nice, but they took a backseat through that period out of necessity.

Again, I don't support Arsenal, so I won't be reminiscent about either of those things; I just think Wenger is judged unfairly through that time by many people who don't consider the full picture.

As mjsell says above, though, his test is whether he can kick on now and I'm not sure he can. He keeps saying he'll only buy exceptional players who become available (fair enough in the case of Cech), but it was unbelievably obvious that he needed another decent option in defensive midfield and up front (maybe not now if he's going to use Walcott there full time).

Players like Kondogbia, Schneiderlin and Khedira have moved this Summer and could have been acted on.

Same with strikers like Mandzukic, Jackson Martinez, Dybala and Bacca.

They may not be as much of an upgrade on the first team as their price tag would suggest, but if Coquelin gets a decent length injury this season (he obviously will do) they're completely fucked.

 

Couldn't agree more with everything you have said here. For me striker was not as necessary as another holding midfielder player (I wouldn't have said no to one though).

 

Coquelin is currently out with a swollen knee from the Chelsea game, Wenger is handily not giving detail on the length of the injury but has said 'we hope its just a short-term thing'. if Coquelin is out for an extended period (with this or another injury at another time) we are well and truly fucked if Wenger thinks Arteta is good enough. The guy is awful, I would rather play Ramsey holding, or even Chambers in there (similar to how Dier is currently at Spurs), but the fact that all it takes is an injury to one player for us to be scrabbling around for possible alternatives is shocking.

 

Still don't know why we didn't put up the money and trigger Carvalho's release clause. The guy is a beast.

[Gucci Piggy]

Yeah I was thinking about that when Coquelin went off in the Chelsea game.

I even think something like a three-man midfield with Cazorla sitting deep (playing an Arteta kind of role) and Ramsey and Ox both playing box-to-box to offer protection would be better than Arteta starting games. But then obviously Cazorla's out for the next game.

[pink_triangle]

I agree with one of the blokes on the podcasts this week.  I dont think Arteta is great, but Im not sure he is worse than they players who cover the positions at the other bigger teams.

[mjsell]

I agree with one of the blokes on the podcasts this week.  I dont think Arteta is great, but Im not sure he is worse than they players who cover the positions at the other bigger teams.

 

Carrick, Schweinsteiger, Schneiderlin at United

 

Matic, Mikel, Zouma At Chelsea

 

Fernandinho, Fernando (Delph and Toure could both play there also) At City

 

Arteta is a lot worse than all of the above in the holding position

[kingcrawler]

 

Was Lewis Moult playing for motherwell? He seems to have made the conference/spl transition really well.

 

He came on as a sub and scored to make it 3-2. Not sure why he was on the bench given he's been one of their better players this season but their team was strange last night. He missed a great chance at 1-1, if he'd scored that then I reckon Motherwell would have went on to win as they were coming more into the game at that point.

[Gucci Piggy]

Carrick, Schweinsteiger, Schneiderlin at United

Matic, Mikel, Zouma At Chelsea

Fernandinho, Fernando (Delph and Toure could both play there also) At City

Arteta is a lot worse than all of the above in the holding position

Not sure.

United obviously have better backup in that position (whichever one you consider backup of the three).

Mikel's pretty awful, but they have Loftus-Cheek as well, and as you say Zouma can play there if Magic gets injured (but Chelsea don't do injuries anyway).

Fernando's naff, probably around Arteta's level.

Edit: And obviously Matic and Fernandinho are better but those are their teams' first choice options so not really relevant to the point.

Edited September 23, 2015 by Will-2609

[mjsell]

Not sure.

United obviously have better backup in that position (whichever one you consider backup of the three).

Mikel's pretty awful, but they have Loftus-Cheek as well, and as you say Zouma can play there if Magic gets injured (but Chelsea don't do injuries anyway).

Fernando's naff, probably around Arteta's level.

Edit: And obviously Matic and Fernandinho are better but those are their teams' first choice options so not really relevant to the point.

 

I'd take Mikel over Arteta any day of the week. They are both awful, but at least Mikel understands the role of holding midfielder and has at least a little bit of mobility, and can tackle better. The only thing Arteta offers over Mikel is passing ability but that's not what arsenal need in that position.

 

Fernando I haven't really seen enough of to comment. But when you have the ability to just put Toure in there if needed then that's already a better situation to be in.

 

The fact that you would say United have the strongest depth in the position goes to show how awful Arsenal were in the transfer window, as that was United weakest position last season (as Carrick was injured for quite a while). Whilst they identified that weakness and acted upon it Arsenal did the opposite.

[Gucci Piggy]

Yeah United were very good in the window regarding central midfield. When you consider they also have Herrera (usually) on the bench as well then their depth there is very very good (albeit he obviously isn't a holding player).

Scenes when Bielik gets fast tracked into the first team due to an injury crisis and beasts it Coquelin-style.

[Gucci Piggy]

Oi what the fuck is this

Our fans may be bad but we just can't compete with Spurs fans. https://t.co/Okc7yLzGm0

— Follow @AFCOllieJD (@AFCOllie)

September 23, 2015

Edited September 23, 2015 by Will-2609

[Celery]

 

 

If I used the world irrelevant then I was incorrect. Finance is clearly an issue where the gap is huge between England and the smaller European nations. Although looking at the smaller teams that regularly knock English ones out of the Europa league you wouldnt realize it!.

However as that gap narrows it becomes less important. There is also the case that a Spanish team will probably pay less money for an equivalent player than a premiership team, with foregin clubs knowing there is more money around the EPL. As I have said when it comes to England V Spain I have no doubt that teams of equal postiion would be equally matched.

Its great to win cups, but there is an element of luck involved in a random draw. The league is the best way of assessing a teams strength and leagues in Europe are almost all dominated by the big spenders in their league. Arsenal maybe should have won more trophies, although 2 FA cups in 2 years isnt a bad start.

As other have said its also in context of Arsenal building a stadium and possibly thinking they would take advantage when financial fair play was implemented. Im personlly glad they havent as I felt it was just about protecting the big boys. Arsenal fans may not be happy that they arent winning league titles, but maybe have to be more realistic.

Well said. Can't disagree with much of that though Arsenal didn't have to be so tight-fisted. They could always have paid it back over a longer duration and invested more in the team. They've also screwed their match-going supporters with ridiculous prices in the meantime. Since work started in '04, my mate has paid about 50% more than me for an equivalent seat. He's seen them win 2 trophies in that time (3 if you count the tail end of the title winning campaign) while I've seen 13. Doesn't really seem right. He's not particularly enjoyed it either, but fortunately has a job that means he can afford it. 

Not sure if you did use the word irrelevant and can't be arsed to check but you implied something similar. Apologies if i put words in your mouth though. 

 

[DomDom1984]

Moult scored, but he was an absolute shambles the rest of the time he was on. He genuinely had me howling with laughter at times.

[Gucci Piggy]

Someone stop Flamini.

The world has ended.

[WS_Jack_III]

I still don't like football then.