2017 festival

[dentalplan]

49 minutes ago, rivalschools.price said:

I didn't say that people who want equality are in the minority, that is a deliberate twist on my words.

Equality to me (in context of festivals) means booking bands that are good,irrespective of gender, race, sexuality, etc.

At the moment, I don't know which band contains the lone female member.I want to keep it that way cos , to me, it doesn't matter.

I wasn't twisting your words - I know you weren't saying that. But you said that the people who wanted women irrespective of genre on the line up must be in the minority, and people who want equality would want more women on the line up than 1 in 58.

And it's quite clear they're not just booking who's 'good' because look at the line up.

[rivalschools.price]

23 minutes ago, dentalplan said:

I wasn't twisting your words - I know you weren't saying that. But you said that the people who wanted women irrespective of genre on the line up must be in the minority, and people who want equality would want more women on the line up than 1 in 58.

And it's quite clear they're not just booking who's 'good' because look at the line up.

It's still not quite what I said but it doesn't matter.

And yeah, no-one can say the line-up is good,ha ha.

Don't think that adding female bands like Paramore and Kate Nash would improve it though, ha ha.

[Bisque]

I did not make this group, I like Kate Nash

[rivalschools.price]

1 minute ago, Bisque said:

I did not make this group, I like Kate Nash

I suppose some would see that as further evidence that the music industry is sexist,until they realise that there is a similar group for Coldplay ha ha

[Fast Drones]

tell you what theres a distinct lack of at RnL

 

Pink Guys

 

[Bisque]

57 minutes ago, rivalschools.price said:

I suppose some would see that as further evidence that the music industry is sexist,until they realise that there is a similar group for Coldplay ha ha

They are talking shit. Andrew WK is awesome

 

Edited January 28, 2017 by Bisque

[Alex DeLarge]

'No, no you see! We can't book more artists with female members because we're more concerned about the quality of acts!'

-Books Rat Boy-

[Yellow_Fellow]

3 hours ago, rivalschools.price said:

The problem seems to be that many people think that equality means - 'they should book Milk Teeth because they have a female member'

When in reality equality means - 'they should book Milk Teeth because they are a great band'

Yes - but there needs to be a more concerted effort to normalise bands with women in them and other female artists because that is what will breed more of the same.

Doing nothing does nothing. It's pretty simple. 

[Gucci Piggy]

4 hours ago, rivalschools.price said:

The problem seems to be that many people think that equality means - 'they should book Milk Teeth because they have a female member'

When in reality equality means - 'they should book Milk Teeth because they are a great band'

This is entirely missing the wider point, though.

There is a big problem within the rock music industry (just using the main genre R&L books) of females not having anywhere near equal representation. This starts right at the beginning; from a young age a male is much more likely to be encouraged into picking up the guitar and starting a band etc. than a female is. There is nothing biological about being male/female that should make females less likely to play the guitar and start a band; it happens because of what is expected of each gender socially. This is a big problem and the only way there will be any progress made towards fixing it is if big players within the industry (ie. major festival bookers) make a concerted effort to increase female representation above what it currently is and make a start in changing the social perception of females from one which says they shouldn't be playing rock music.

I probably have as many female friends who are into the music R&L books as I do male friends who are into it, but I know a damn site more males who play instruments and are in bands than I do females. This stems from what I've said above and it then extends into the big leagues such as major festival lineups.

It's a problem, and people like those in here acting as though it isn't, and that nothing can/should be done to change it, are a huge part of why it still is and will continue to be a problem.

It isn't just "they should book Milk Teeth because they have a female member", it's "they should look more towards booking bands like Milk Teeth with female members because historically they have been unfairly misrepresented in this industry and we should make a push to overcome that situation which should be long outdated".

[This post is not just aimed at you, but at all the others saying similar things, too]

[Pop Punk Sucks]

Tbf i don't think the "they should only book the best bands and artists, they shouldn't book bands just because they have women in them" is a pretty dumb argument now when there's so many talented bands out there with females in them now. The ratio they've got so far is pitiful tbf. 

[Gucci Piggy]

According to tour dates online, this is what we have so far:

 

Muse - Fri/Sat

Major Lazer - Sat/Sun

Bastille - Fri Leeds/Sat Reading/Sun Leeds

Architects - Fri/Sat

Danny Brown - Fri Leeds

Against the Current - Fri Leeds

Fatboy Slim - Fri/Sat

Circa Waves - "w/ Muse"

 

Obviously that Bastille one is baffling, but we already knew that. Either means they're Sat Reading/Sun Leeds and just have that extra Fri Leeds date there by mistake, or those dates mean nothing and they just stuck up R&L dates covering that weekend.

 

Danny Brown and Against the Current only have their Leeds date down on their tour pages. Could just be putting down the first day of the festival but also could mean they're Sun Reading/Fri Leeds.

 

Circa Waves dates have the 25th (Friday) down for both Reading and Leeds but it says "w/ Muse", so I think that may mean they're on Muse's day (I'd expect upper NME, if so).

 

Think that could leave us with:

Friday:

Muse headliners

Architects ~5th main

Fatboy Slim NME headliner

Circa Waves ~3rd NME

 

Saturday:

Major Lazer subs

Bastille NME headliner

 

Sunday:

Against the Current bottom 2 main

Danny Brown ~3rd/4th NME

[dentalplan]

Seems fair, good graft. Kinda anticipating Danny Brown might be supporting Eminem on tour (that's assuming he has standalone shows in some countries while in Europe) so perhaps the same day but that's just a hunch based on history. Tbf Eminem could still be Leeds Fri/Reading Sunday, it's just the Major Lazer prediction binding them.

The Bastille dates I think are gonna turn out bogus and they'll just end up subbing. Purely because I can't see who else might be subbing and even the off-chance of Tame Impala and/or Skepta seem less of something R+L would go for than kicking Bastille up a step.

[Gucci Piggy]

29 minutes ago, dentalplan said:

Seems fair, good graft. Kinda anticipating Danny Brown might be supporting Eminem on tour (that's assuming he has standalone shows in some countries while in Europe) so perhaps the same day but that's just a hunch based on history. Tbf Eminem could still be Leeds Fri/Reading Sunday, it's just the Major Lazer prediction binding them.

The Bastille dates I think are gonna turn out bogus and they'll just end up subbing. Purely because I can't see who else might be subbing and even the off-chance of Tame Impala and/or Skepta seem less of something R+L would go for than kicking Bastille up a step.

Who do you think will be the third sub if Major Lazer and Bastille are two of them? I could see them turning out to be bogus as you say.

[devilman]

1 hour ago, Will-2609 said:

This is a big problem and the only way there will be any progress made towards fixing it is if big players within the industry (ie. major festival bookers) make a concerted effort to increase female representation above what it currently is and make a start in changing the social perception of females from one which says they shouldn't be playing rock music.

Disagree. Festivals have to make money and book bands that the public will pay for. It is up to the public to make female bands more popular by buying their records. I also think it's pointless idiots like that those from that site getting on their high horse when a small proportion of the bands have been booked. 

[Bisque]

R&L should just book Katy Perry as sub but have her support band just play in metal mode.

It would be fantastic

[Gucci Piggy]

11 minutes ago, devilman said:

Disagree. Festivals have to make money and book bands that the public will pay for. It is up to the public to make female bands more popular by buying their records. I also think it's pointless idiots like that those from that site getting on their high horse when a small proportion of the bands have been booked. 

I'd argue a random person going out and buying a record has slightly less power to change the perception of females in rock music than a major festival does.

[dentalplan]

15 minutes ago, devilman said:

Disagree. Festivals have to make money and book bands that the public will pay for. It is up to the public to make female bands more popular by buying their records. I also think it's pointless idiots like that those from that site getting on their high horse when a small proportion of the bands have been booked. 

The hope would be that people would familiarise themselves with and go see those bands due to their place on the line up. Much like what happens with the man bands, as festivals are a massive showcase for rising bands; exemplified by each of the two announced headliners playing millions of festivals working their way up to headline status.

[dentalplan]

42 minutes ago, Will-2609 said:

Who do you think will be the third sub if Major Lazer and Bastille are two of them? I could see them turning out to be bogus as you say.

Dunno. Hopefully one of the two I mentioned or maybe Chance the Rapper, but probably TDCC in all likelihood and it will be the shittest line up ever.

[Mattymooz]

2 hours ago, Will-2609 said:

Think that could leave us with:

Friday:

Fatboy Slim NME headliner

 

I still think it is far more likely that Fatboy Slim will either do a closing set for the NME or headline the Dance stage. Compared to Flume (who had a great year last year and has always been a really strong act) I think it is a lot less likely that he'll be booked for a NME Headliner. I don't think R&L would book 2 Electronic NME headliners, and I think Flume would work far worse as a Closing set (I get the impression his live performances are a lot more personal and emotive, wheras Fatboy Slim has some great danceable tracks that would finish a night off really well).

[Hart Attack]

15 hours ago, dentalplan said:

I should hope that people who want equality sure as shit aren't in the minority.

I see where you're coming from about liking a band because it sounds good to you rather than if there's a woman in the band or not and I think most people are like that.

It doesn't mean that a 57:1 male to female ratio is excusable. The festivals have the power to represent women more than the industry's current example, but the choice of the bookers to have this whole 'not my problem' attitude is reprehensible and pathetic. The playing field isn't level when they have an onus on booking bands with women, sure, but there have been decades of it being a man's game anyway and women in music not getting a chance so what's a few years of deliberately trying to balance it out?

And to anyone that's on about "the feminists" "moaning", you should cut that shit out. I would think it's human to want fair representation of people of any gender or race, and not something to belittle and dismiss as trivial.

http://www.officialcharts.com/charts/rock-and-metal-albums-chart/

In those 40 bands, I can find one featuring a woman (Menace Beach)... so 57:1 doesn't seem like a wildly inaccurate or unfair representation to me.

[Pop Punk Sucks]

Festivals and the Press are the two biggest platforms to bring bands to the public's attention so they will go out and buy their records. That's why they get criticized. The "needs to sell tickets, needs to sell magazines etc" argument doesn't always ring true, as there's lots of female fronted bands who are bigger draws than some of the bands who get booked in the lower slots at festivals like R+L. 

[Pop Punk Sucks]

7 minutes ago, Hart Attack said:

http://www.officialcharts.com/charts/rock-and-metal-albums-chart/

In those 40 bands, I can find one featuring a woman (Menace Beach)... so 57:1 doesn't seem like a wildly inaccurate or unfair representation to me.

 

How is 1 random week of Rock/Metal album sales in the start of January a fair representation of a festival that books the amount of genres and bands it does? 

9 of those 10 albums are by bands with dead members who will probably never play shows again. Another 12 of them are bands who would have to headline the festival to play it. A fair few of the other ones are by bands/artists who would probably never be in with a look in to play the festival.

[Hart Attack]

7 minutes ago, Pop Punk Sucks said:

 

How is 1 random week of Rock/Metal album sales in the start of January a fair representation of a festival that books the amount of genres and bands it does? 

9 of those 10 albums are by bands with dead members who will probably never play shows again. Another 12 of them are bands who would have to headline the festival to play it. A fair few of the other ones are by bands/artists who would probably never be in with a look in to play the festival.

Well sure, it's not exactly the most scientific way to determine the exact male:female ratio in rock music... but I think it roughly illustrates the point that among popular rock bands there are simply far fewer women involved, so of course festival line-ups are going to reflect that.

[Gucci Piggy]

1 hour ago, Mattymooz said:

I still think it is far more likely that Fatboy Slim will either do a closing set for the NME or headline the Dance stage. Compared to Flume (who had a great year last year and has always been a really strong act) I think it is a lot less likely that he'll be booked for a NME Headliner. I don't think R&L would book 2 Electronic NME headliners, and I think Flume would work far worse as a Closing set (I get the impression his live performances are a lot more personal and emotive, wheras Fatboy Slim has some great danceable tracks that would finish a night off really well).

You do realise an NME headliner set and a closing set are exactly the same thing other than how they're billed?

[Gucci Piggy]

1 hour ago, Hart Attack said:

http://www.officialcharts.com/charts/rock-and-metal-albums-chart/

In those 40 bands, I can find one featuring a woman (Menace Beach)... so 57:1 doesn't seem like a wildly inaccurate or unfair representation to me.

Did you even read the post you quoted? No one is saying R&L isn't a fair reflection on the music industry, we're saying that the music industry has a poor representation of women and festivals like R&L have the power to change this.

The post you quoted even says "The festivals have the power to represent women more than the industry's current example".