2017 festival

[dentalplan]

31 minutes ago, Hart Attack said:

Well sure, it's not exactly the most scientific way to determine the exact male:female ratio in rock music... but I think it roughly illustrates the point that among popular rock bands there are simply far fewer women involved, so of course festival line-ups are going to reflect that.

Once again, I know there's a huge problem with the industry but festivals have the power to make more bands w/ women popular and a common sight in lists such as that. It should be that stat on yer charts that makes you go "oh shit there's a massive problem here".

[Hart Attack]

Oh I see, I misunderstood.

I still don't really understand why that's a problem though. So fewer women than men are choosing to get involved with music... and? It's not like they're being prevented from doing it if they want to - if a woman walks into a music shop and tries to buy a guitar, it's not like they're going to tell her "sorry, we only sell to men". If that were the case then sure, that would be a problem - I think it's important to make sure the door is open to everyone, but ultimately it's up to the individuals themselves to walk through it.

I see no reason to enforce a 50/50 split or meet a quota, or to create an artificial illusion that a higher proportion of band members are female - as long as everyone has equal opportunities, there's nothing wrong with letting the chips fall where they may.

[rivalschools.price]

Just speaking to my wife about it,she has her own theory-

'women aren't stupid enough to travel up and down the country for next to no money,sleeping in a dodgy van, smelling kebab farts'

So there we have it folks, Mrs rivalschoolsprice has spoken, ha ha.

[Yellow_Fellow]

10 minutes ago, Hart Attack said:

Oh I see, I misunderstood.

I still don't really understand why that's a problem though. So fewer women than men are choosing to get involved with music... and? It's not like they're being prevented from doing it if they want to - if a woman walks into a music shop and tries to buy a guitar, it's not like they're going to tell her "sorry, we only sell to men". If that were the case then sure, that would be a problem - I think it's important to make sure the door is open to everyone, but ultimately it's up to the individuals themselves to walk through it.

I see no reason to enforce a 50/50 split or meet a quota, or to create an artificial illusion that a higher proportion of band members are female - as long as everyone has equal opportunities, there's nothing wrong with letting the chips fall where they may.

That you don't understand why it's a problem speaks volumes - you're clearly not aware of the ridiculous amount of exceptionalism that occurs JUST because you have a female member in your band. Something that wouldn't happen if it WEREN'T exceptional. 

This liberal laissez-faire approach to gender equality is complete nonsense and will achieve NOTHING. 

[Pop Punk Sucks]

1 hour ago, Hart Attack said:

Well sure, it's not exactly the most scientific way to determine the exact male:female ratio in rock music... but I think it roughly illustrates the point that among popular rock bands there are simply far fewer women involved, so of course festival line-ups are going to reflect that.

 

You might have a vague point if you were listing a top 40 selling list of new albums that came out last year, but listing the album sales in a fairly dead rubber random week in January has nothing to do with how a festival is booked, especially since so many of the bands in that list are either finished as a band or not in any contention of playing the festival. 

 

[Hart Attack]

25 minutes ago, Yellow_Fellow said:

That you don't understand why it's a problem speaks volumes - you're clearly not aware of the ridiculous amount of exceptionalism that occurs JUST because you have a female member in your band. Something that wouldn't happen if it WEREN'T exceptional. 

This liberal laissez-faire approach to gender equality is complete nonsense and will achieve NOTHING. 

Exceptional doesn't mean bad though; female band members are relatively uncommon, but there's nothing inherently problematic about that. If women want to start/join a band, they're perfectly entitled and welcome to - but if they don't, that's fine too. As long as everyone is free to make their own choice without having their options limited because of their gender (or race, religion, sexuality etc. for that matter), then as far as I can tell there's nothing here that actually needs to be achieved.

[Nicklord]

This topic is interesting to me so I googled something a bit different: gender and music genres. Some guy analysed 200 000 mainly USA listeners and genres that had much more male fans: Rock, Hip Hop, House, Album Rock, Rap, Pop Rap, Indie Rock, Funk Rock, Gangster Rap ,Electro house, Classic rock, Nu meta. Genres that had much more female fans: Pop, Dance Pop, Contemporary  Hit Radio, Urban Contemporary, R&B, Hot Adult Contemporary, Latin Pop, Teen Pop, Neo soul, Latin, Pop rock, Contemporary country. 

From this I can conclude that rock has more male fans and that also impacts the number of males in rock bands at least in USA

[VCK]

I'm surprised that it's even come to the point where people are debating this, like it's a pressing issue.

Maybe it's just that less females choose to be in rock bands than males. I was a teenager when the likes of The Libertines and Arctic Monkeys were in their prime, so liking rock music was the cool thing, but an overwhelming majority of my peers who actually formed bands, were male.

Maybe people should encourage more women to get involved with alternative music. That would be a more productive solution to this, ahem, "problem", than writing blog articles whining about white males being evil sexists. People who think it's an issue should actually do something about it. Try to make a change.

Either way I don't really care though because it's a non-issue. I'd rather have 100 all-male bands that produce good quality music, than an all-female group that produces terrible music. I judge musicians on their merit and talent, and nothing else.

Also, Reading and Leeds are a business. They book acts that are popular, and will sell tickets. Popular acts, that have reached their level due to their fanbases that contain females. Just saying.

[rivalschools.price]

7 hours ago, Will-2609 said:

This is entirely missing the wider point, though.

There is a big problem within the rock music industry (just using the main genre R&L books) of females not having anywhere near equal representation. This starts right at the beginning; from a young age a male is much more likely to be encouraged into picking up the guitar and starting a band etc. than a female is. There is nothing biological about being male/female that should make females less likely to play the guitar and start a band; it happens because of what is expected of each gender socially. This is a big problem and the only way there will be any progress made towards fixing it is if big players within the industry (ie. major festival bookers) make a concerted effort to increase female representation above what it currently is and make a start in changing the social perception of females from one which says they shouldn't be playing rock music.

I probably have as many female friends who are into the music R&L books as I do male friends who are into it, but I know a damn site more males who play instruments and are in bands than I do females. This stems from what I've said above and it then extends into the big leagues such as major festival lineups.

It's a problem, and people like those in here acting as though it isn't, and that nothing can/should be done to change it, are a huge part of why it still is and will continue to be a problem.

It isn't just "they should book Milk Teeth because they have a female member", it's "they should look more towards booking bands like Milk Teeth with female members because historically they have been unfairly misrepresented in this industry and we should make a push to overcome that situation which should be long outdated".

[This post is not just aimed at you, but at all the others saying similar things, too]

You need too start writing for sites like crack in the road(the site who's tweets started all this discussion) as you've put a much better case forward than the aggressive conspiracy theorists currently tweeting for them.

They seem to be accusing the festivals of deliberately not booking female acts when they should be encouraging the festivals to give more females a chance.

[rivalschools.price]

The other problem we have now is that it will look like any female acts in the next announcement are only there because they got special treatment to fill a quota,when in reality they would have got there on merit and were probably already booked.

[Pop Punk Sucks]

I think Melvin Benn's comments have gone some way in making sure that won't be the case 

[rivalschools.price]

11 minutes ago, Pop Punk Sucks said:

I think Melvin Benn's comments have gone some way in making sure that won't be the case 

What were his comments?

[Yellow_Fellow]

5 hours ago, Hart Attack said:

Exceptional doesn't mean bad though

- Men

[losing44]

Do you guys think Lana Del Rey will ever get booked for r&l? IMO, them headlining nme one year wouldn't be too much of a push. 

Also on the topic of female-included bands, Code Orange. Insane new album, reckon they will be at r&l? I know they're playing download Spain, so definitely likely for the uk one, but can see them playing both festivals this year, especially as Daniel p carter pushes them a lot on his show 

[Pop Punk Sucks]

10 hours ago, rivalschools.price said:

What were his comments?

 

Basically said it's not his responsibility to promote gender equality in music 

[Mattymooz]

16 hours ago, Will-2609 said:

You do realise an NME headliner set and a closing set are exactly the same thing other than how they're billed?

Yes but imo the way they are billed is what I'm talking about. When I think of a 'closing set', I think of somewhere to go to dance and not really care. The way the name is set up makes it feel as though they are coming after the main act of the night, and now you probably just wanna dance to a bunch of songs.

The main reason I say this is aswell that, while Fatboy Slim has lot's of his own songs, I imagine most of his set will be made up of him playing others music. In Comparison, Flume plays pretty much all his own stuff a lot more similar to a rock band will (he'll maybe do a cover or two in there as well. As it is his only UK festival date as well I expect he'll bring his live show rather than just doing a DJ set.

[Gucci Piggy]

24 minutes ago, Mattymooz said:

Yes but imo the way they are billed is what I'm talking about. When I think of a 'closing set', I think of somewhere to go to dance and not really care. The way the name is set up makes it feel as though they are coming after the main act of the night, and now you probably just wanna dance to a bunch of songs.

The main reason I say this is aswell that, while Fatboy Slim has lot's of his own songs, I imagine most of his set will be made up of him playing others music. In Comparison, Flume plays pretty much all his own stuff a lot more similar to a rock band will (he'll maybe do a cover or two in there as well. As it is his only UK festival date as well I expect he'll bring his live show rather than just doing a DJ set.

Yeah this is essentially it, but that comes down to the size of the act rather than what their show will be like. Fatboy Slim is a big enough act to be billed as an NME headliner, no problem.

I would imagine both Flume and Fatboy Slim are doing live sets as neither are being specified as a DJ set.

I reckon both will be billed as NME headliners with either Bastille, Korn or an as yet unannounced act as the third.

[dentalplan]

6 minutes ago, Will-2609 said:

reckon both will be billed as NME headliners with either Bastille, Korn or an as yet unannounced act as the third.

Agree. Think Kygo might be a shout for the third one. He's in Switzerland on Friday and since he got booked to headline(!) Wireless by FR I thought they'd be looking to have him play R+L at some point.

[Mattymooz]

14 minutes ago, Will-2609 said:

Yeah this is essentially it, but that comes down to the size of the act rather than what their show will be like. Fatboy Slim is a big enough act to be billed as an NME headliner, no problem.

I would imagine both Flume and Fatboy Slim are doing live sets as neither are being specified as a DJ set.

I reckon both will be billed as NME headliners with either Bastille, Korn or an as yet unannounced act as the third.

Is he still big enough though? Compared to acts like Sigma (who played lower down the NME line up last year) and Oliver Heldens (who headlined the Dance stage), both of whom current day I would say are bigger than him.

I'm pretty sure as well that Fatboy Slim doesn't do Live Sets. AFAIK he only DJ's. I have no idea what a fatboy slim live set up would even look like......

And I also would think that they'd save a NME headliner for the last release, I doubt we have them all. (Personally I think we have Bastille & Flume as NME Headliners and then Andy C & Fatboy Slim as Dance headliners)

7 minutes ago, dentalplan said:

Agree. Think Kygo might be a shout for the third one. He's in Switzerland on Friday and since he got booked to headline(!) Wireless by FR I thought they'd be looking to have him play R+L at some point.

As someone who saw Kygos show at Wireless, I really hope it's not. Also, if we do go with what Will said and say that Fatboy Slim and Flume are headlining, I highly doubt it's another electronic act. Plus I would expect Kygo to play at Creamfields at some point too.

[devilman]

A festival that books acts based on what it thinks I should be listening to will be one that I won't be attending. I'm sure I won't be alone in that. Also, the dancy genres that have female singers, don't tend to be a band, more a DJ who gets a session singer in. They rarely play "live" with that singer. If you want to hear backing tapes of women singing just to up your quota then I think Creamfields is probably where you should be looking, but you're still quite likely to be watching a bloke on stage. I've heard it's nice.

[the wonderwhy]

39 minutes ago, devilman said:

A festival that books acts based on what it thinks I should be listening to will be one that I won't be attending. 

Eh? That's pretty much exactly how festival undercards work (or, at least the majority of them) 

[Gucci Piggy]

50 minutes ago, dentalplan said:

Agree. Think Kygo might be a shout for the third one. He's in Switzerland on Friday and since he got booked to headline(!) Wireless by FR I thought they'd be looking to have him play R+L at some point.

Could be a shout but I would imagine it'll be a band up against Eminem. Flume would work okay I guess but if we're assuming Eminem is Sat/Sun then that'd mean Kygo up against him which I don't see. If it isn't Bastille or Korn up against him I think it'll be another band such as YMAS or Shikari. Gotta have something for your guitar music fans on the top two stages at R&L, surely?

39 minutes ago, Mattymooz said:

Is he still big enough though? Compared to acts like Sigma (who played lower down the NME line up last year) and Oliver Heldens (who headlined the Dance stage), both of whom current day I would say are bigger than him.

I'm pretty sure as well that Fatboy Slim doesn't do Live Sets. AFAIK he only DJ's. I have no idea what a fatboy slim live set up would even look like......

And I also would think that they'd save a NME headliner for the last release, I doubt we have them all. (Personally I think we have Bastille & Flume as NME Headliners and then Andy C & Fatboy Slim as Dance headliners)

As someone who saw Kygos show at Wireless, I really hope it's not. Also, if we do go with what Will said and say that Fatboy Slim and Flume are headlining, I highly doubt it's another electronic act. Plus I would expect Kygo to play at Creamfields at some point too.

Yeah I'd say he's still big enough. He's a big enough name and has the legend kind of status that will ensure he'll always draw a big crowd. He supposedly got a mammoth crowd overflowing the tent subbing the John Peel tent at Glasto last year (pretty much Glasto's equivalent of the NME Stage).

Last year all the NME headliners were released by now (The 1975 in the first announcement and TDCC and Jack Ü in the second) so I'm not sure about that. As long as they've got some subs and 3rd down acts for the final announcement it'll be fine.

But yeah I agree the final act won't be an electronic one and there'll be a guitar band up against Eminem.

[Mattymooz]

13 minutes ago, Will-2609 said:

But yeah I agree the final act won't be an electronic one and there'll be a guitar band up against Eminem.

TBH I just really hope Flume isn't up against Muse cause I'll have no idea who I'll see. Hoping he's up against Kasbaian.

[Benj]

The problem is girls like boys in bands

Boys like girls whether they're in bands or not 

a festival full of girl bands would not actually sell to girls. 

Massive generalisation but basically the way it is

[dentalplan]

Christ.

Why are people so defensive about this? Of all the bands at the festival you don't go see, what difference would it make to you lot if many of them are chosen with an eye on correcting a historic gender imbalance?

And the "they have to book what's popular, it's a business" thing in a community that has complained about them booking what's popular over what they like that is no longer popular!