New Order

[eastynh]

You can all fuck off to the Radiohead thread. Don'the be bringing your negativity in here.

[sime]

I've watched them at festivals a couple of times and always had a good time. If they do headline the Other Stage, I will probably see them again because, well, New Order... That is all dependent though on who headlines elsewhere at the same time.

[Woffy]

8 minutes ago, eastynh said:

You can all fuck off to the Radiohead thread. Don'the be bringing your negativity in here.

Gotta say though, easty. I quite like New Order on record - not a superfan - but I'm trawling around online watching live vids and they're mostly pretty poor.

They don't look they enjoy themselves on stage at all.

Edited March 5, 2016 by Woffy

[eastynh]

9 minutes ago, Woffy said:

Gotta say though, easty. I quite like New Order on record - not a superfan - but I'm trawling around online watching live vids and they're mostly pretty poor.

They don't look they enjoy themselves on stage at all.

Bernard Sumner is a self confessed studio man rather than lover of live performances. His stance seems to be the studio is creative where as playing live is just reproductive. Hooky was the lover of the live performance.

I will be the first to admit they can be hit and miss live and sometimes they deserve criticism. But to criticise them for their musical abilities is wrong imo. It is the imperfections and idiosyncrasies that make them the band they are. People need to remember they are not classically trained musicians. They were a group of kids who went to watch The Sex Pistols and thought bollocks to it, we can do that. they are the true essence of what punk was and is about.

Stu mentions Hot Chip and I love them as people on here know. Hot Chip might be utterly fantastic musicians. it looks great when they are on stage all swapping instruments with consummate ease. Yet even at their best Hot Chip do not have tunes that get anywhere near as goods as New Orders best. Hot Chip don't have any Blue Mondays, True Faiths, Love Will Tear Us Apart, Isolation, Temptation, True Faith and so on.

Mardy makes a good point. The goodwill of the crowd do play a key role when they play live, much in the same way it does with The Roses.

For me personally there is more to music than just being a fantastic musician, or being the prettiest and having lovely hair.

 

[SwedgeAntilles]

I'd imagine the best way to ensure you enjoy New Order's Saturday night set would be to be in the vicinity of easty. His enthusiasm will more than make up for any ropey vocals or such like.

[blue6field]

40 minutes ago, eastynh said:

Bernard Sumner is a self confessed studio man rather than lover of live performances. His stance seems to be the studio is creative where as playing live is just reproductive. Hooky was the lover of the live performance.

I will be the first to admit they can be hit and miss live and sometimes they deserve criticism. But to criticise them for their musical abilities is wrong imo. It is the imperfections and idiosyncrasies that make them the band they are. People need to remember they are not classically trained musicians. They were a group of kids who went to watch The Sex Pistols and thought bollocks to it, we can do that. they are the true essence of what punk was and is about.

Stu mentions Hot Chip and I love them as people on here know. Hot Chip might be utterly fantastic musicians. it looks great when they are on stage all swapping instruments with consummate ease. Yet even at their best Hot Chip do not have tunes that get anywhere near as goods as New Orders best. Hot Chip don't have any Blue Mondays, True Faiths, Love Will Tear Us Apart, Isolation, Temptation, True Faith and so on.

Mardy makes a good point. The goodwill of the crowd do play a key role when they play live, much in the same way it does with The Roses.

For me personally there is more to music than just being a fantastic musician, or being the prettiest and having lovely hair.

 

Brilliantly put!

[eastynh]

1 hour ago, SwedgeAntilles said:

I'd imagine the best way to ensure you enjoy New Order's Saturday night set would be to be in the vicinity of easty. His enthusiasm will more than make up for any ropey vocals or such like.

The problem with that mate is that I sing and dance and I have the worse voice ever. Put it this way, in the singing scale Ian Brown is closer to Pavarotti than he is to me.

You would have a laugh though.

People go to gigs for different reasons. Some people want a perfect reproduction of recorded output, fantastic instrument skills and a voice like an angel. That is fine and I respect people who wish to do that. I go to enjoy myself and have a laugh. I am not arsed in the slightest if Bernard Sumner hits D# when he should have hit D :-)

[Wooderson]

Barney's silly dance and poorly timed yelps add to the live experience.

[SwedgeAntilles]

1 hour ago, eastynh said:

The problem with that mate is that I sing and dance and I have the worse voice ever. Put it this way, in the singing scale Ian Brown is closer to Pavarotti than he is to me.

You would have a laugh though.

People go to gigs for different reasons. Some people want a perfect reproduction of recorded output, fantastic instrument skills and a voice like an angel. That is fine and I respect people who wish to do that. I go to enjoy myself and have a laugh. I am not arsed in the slightest if Bernard Sumner hits D# when he should have hit D :-)

Ah, the drugs would numb my ears

[eastynh]

1 hour ago, SwedgeAntilles said:

Ah, the drugs would numb my ears

Antihistamines play havoc with my hearing as well, for some reason.

[kingbadger]

1 hour ago, SwedgeAntilles said:

Ah, the drugs would numb my ears

The state I'll be in by the time the headliners roll around I could probably listen to a 90 minute set of a modem dialling up, and still be dead from dancing. Don't think a few dodgy vocals and missed keys will put me off New Order unless there's something better on elsewhere.

[the wonderwhy]

Yeah I'm just gonna get fucked, so they should sound good whatever  

[MEGABOWL]

If they hadn't ditched that bellend Hook"y" I doubt I'd be interested but if I get a ticket I doubt there's much I'd rather see on a Saturday night at Glastonbury than New Order. They'll play The Perfect Kiss fercryinoutloud.

[eastynh]

15 minutes ago, MEGABOWL said:

If they hadn't ditched that bellend Hook"y" I doubt I'd be interested but if I get a ticket I doubt there's much I'd rather see on a Saturday night at Glastonbury than New Order. They'll play The Perfect Kiss fercryinoutloud.

Thats the kiss of death :-)

[Funktownbro]

12 hours ago, stuartbert two hats said:

Cheers for that. Just listened to a couple, but it's actually the drumming that lets then down for me - not a very tight band are they?

New Order, such a 'nearly' band for me. I like the idea of them doing a storming set, but I just don't think it's going to happen.

Definitely in reserve. If there's nothing else on I really want to see, I might give them another go, but probably not.

 

Maybe because the drumming is in keeping with their original sound using electronic drum pads that don't sound as full as traditional drum kits, it was the thing in the 80s...

[stuartbert two hats]

2 minutes ago, Funktownbro said:

 

Maybe because the drumming is in keeping with their original sound using electronic drum pads that don't sound as full as traditional drum kits, it was the thing in the 80s...

It's the timing, not the sound that's off for me. My later post went into more detail.

Anyway, I'm finishing with negativity about NO. @eastynh has convinced with his incredible optimisim and goodwill towards the band. I've made my point, going to only say nice things from now on (for while, anyway)

[stuartbert two hats]

36 minutes ago, Scruffylovemonster said:

 

Although, I am a bit disappointed to hear what Stu says about the drumming, cos the drumming is a massive part of why I enjoy the JD songs.

My comments about the drumming and general rhythmic prowess of the band was entirely about the performance on the 6Music video posted earlier, mainly on the first song. It's not about the drum parts or other performances, just that they didn't seem to be locked into a groove on that occasion.

Edit: the point is, don't worry about what I said, just listen to the video yourself and judge for yourself. I was arguably being a bit harsh, it's not a train wreck, but you do have to be tight when playing against drum machines.

Edited March 6, 2016 by stuartbert two hats

[eastynh]

1 hour ago, Scruffylovemonster said:

At the risk of this whole post facing the wrath of eastynh;

I have to admit I am not a massive fan of NO. I know (and like) the big singles but have never listened to an album in full. I am a big fan of Joy division though. (I have no idea how I've never investigated NO fully tbh). 

Anyway I've had tickets to see bellend Hooky for last night for a while now after seeing him at a small festival last year and him being better than I was expecting (my expectations were tiny to be fair). It was only last week after reading one of easty's posts that I realised he was playing 2 NO albums in full as I hadn't seen the gig advertised as such. When I googled the albums I think I recognised just one song title, so I realised that the probability was that apart from the big encore I wouldn't know hardly any songs. I found out yesterday he was due onstage at 08:10, so thought either he's playing for ever and if he's dodgy I may end up bored, or it's gonna finish really early.

Anyway, it was great. He basically did 4 sets. 30 mins of JD, Lowlife, Brotherhood, encore. Nearly 3 hours including short breaks. I am now definitely going to buy a few early NOP albums and will probably see them at glastonbury. The debates earlier about NO only ever playing the same hits, whereas Hooky is playing rarer stuff I can get on board with after last night. I was never bored - he was very very good and if easty is right that it is better to see NO than that "karaoke" then I can't wait. 

Although, I am a bit disappointed to hear what Stu says about the drumming, cos the drumming is a massive part of why I enjoy the JD songs.

No wrath from me mate and I am glad you enjoyed the gig last night. I really enjoyed the Hooky gig when I went (I am just not a fan of Hooky the person).

It has saddened how the situation between New Order and Hooky has ended up. From the outside it looks like a power conflict between Hooky and Bernard. It is kind of sad really. The lack of respect and derogatory remarks he made about Gillians contribution were absolutely disgusting though and I really hope he loses his court case.

I think all the fans appreciate his contribution to the whole story. Without him and Bernard there would be no JD, NO, Factory, Hacienda and so one. There were other  members in the cast and it is often Tony Wilson and Ian Curtis who's stories are told and retold. Yet it is Bernard and Hooky who really play the lead roles. It all started with them 2 and unfortunately it looks like it will all end due to the disagreement between them 2.

[eastynh]

5 minutes ago, Scruffylovemonster said:

PS I know he is a twat. Last night before they played temptation, he said "We've had a legal notice saying we sound too much like New Order and need to stop. Well fucking good cos that other lot certainly sound nothing like them." He barely said a word all gig before that. What a tit.

 

Where do the 2 albums he played last night sit in the New Order catalogue for you easty? I really enjoyed them - and the first one was less "electronic" (for want of a better term) than I was expecting. Was more Joy Divisiony than any other New Order stuff I've heard. 

Mate do you mind if I give you a proper reply later? I am on my lunch break in work so would not want to make it a rush job. Was it Lowlife and Brotherhood he played last night? Lowlife is ace, I adore it. Brotherhood is weaker and I do not like the half and half split between guitars and electronics as it makes it feel disjointed (That was the conflict between the 2, Hooky wanted guitars while Bernard wanted an electronic album.

If you want a New Order album that sounds like JD then Movement is the one for you. Power, Corruption and Lies is the 2nd album and one of the best. Thats when they were turning into New Order and moving away from the JD shadow. One thing you have to remember with NO, they did not put the singles on the albums really and that why Substance is just so good.

Substance

Technique

PCL

Music Complete

Lowlife

Republic

Brotherhood

Movement

Get Ready

Waiting For The Sirens call

One thing to note, the 2 poorest (Get Ready and WFTSC) did not feature Gillian.

[eastynh]

Can I just add? If you think I have been bad in this thread, just wait till the 2017 Depeche Mode thread

[eastynh]

11 minutes ago, Scruffylovemonster said:

He must have plaid Brotherhood first then, cos I remember thinking "this must be another album" as there was such a change in style but then I realised it would have meant a very very short album. Makes sense now.

There are not many songs on Lowlife tbh mate. Lowlife came 1st and then Brotherhood.

[eastynh]

12 minutes ago, Scruffylovemonster said:

Iyeah but there was a massive change from gitar/drums/bass to a load of synths after not very long at all so I reckon that must be the A/B side split (unless side 1 is the electronic then that fucks my theory up).

1st side is the guitars if I remember rightly mate. My knowledge of the releases is not encyclopedic really. 

Blue Monday has always been there. It feels like Blue Monday has been there all my life. My first real exposure to New Order was the True Faith video, that's what drawn me in. People used to give me tapes with New Order written in biro on them. I was only a kid really and for years I had no idea what the tunes or albums were called. You have to remember that in the late 80's and early 90's there was no internet or out like that. It was not until I started buying the NME and Melody Maker out of my paper round money around 1991 that I started to learn everything. At first I did not even know Joy Division and New Order were the same band

[eastynh]

On 3/6/2016 at 0:35 PM, Scruffylovemonster said:

What is the actual court case trying to achieve. Is he trying to stop them touring as NO? If so, couldn't they just change their name to some other WW2 reference and keep playing the same songs?

Right Scruff here we go. The general gist is this, Peter Hook told a radio station that New Order had split. Bernard and Stephen then countered that by saying it was the 1st they had heard, Hooky may have left but the rest of them had not split New Order.

Bernard was then doing the Bad Lieutenant side project. There are interviews where Bernard stated that he could not imagine doing New Order without Hooky. He fell short of saying it was all over though.

Roll on a few years and the member of New Order were asked to do a few benefit gigs for Michael Shamberg. Gillian came back into the fold and Hooky was not invited back. His place on bass was taken by Tom Chapman. Hooky then seen his arse.

Things went so well that they decided to continue touring. 

The company that collected New Orders funds was then dissolved and a new company was established. Now I may not be right here with the exact figures but the you will get the drift. Hooky was continued to be paid his 12.5% for all his work till that point with New Order and Joy Division. I guess Stephen, Hooky, Bernard and Rob Grettons estate would have been paid the biggest % with the Ian Curtis estate and Gillian paid for JD and NO respectively.  From the new company Hooky is apparently getting 2% for all income since he left which I presume is because he is a shareholder in the New Order name. Hooky believes he deserves more due to the fact New Order are trading on the legacy of the name. I suppose he does have a point as The Other 2 and Bad Lieutenant got no where near the ticket or record sales that New Order get. So it is the brand New Order which is generating the cash. To counter this, Hooky is going round earning money playing live and performing New Order and JD material in their entirety and I seriously doubt he is paying NO anything.

It will all come out in court. It will be interesting as they all got equal song writing credits even though the general consensus is that Bernard was the primary song writer and lyricist.

It is sad really as Hooky clearly loves New Order and Joy Division. Yet by being a prick he seems to have talked his way out of the thing he loves most. It is as if he is thinking if he can't have New Order then no one can.

[eastynh]

1 hour ago, Scruffylovemonster said:

So basically it's all money related. I thought I'd heard somewhere that he was trying to force them to split which I couldn't see how it was possible. The bolded bit is definitely true. Other than his total arrogance, this is one thing that comes across more than anything in any interviews he does. 

I think the money angle is just an excuse to try and fuck them over for carrying on without him.

[northernbro]

for bit of fun & monday procrastination have quickly thought of my dream NO setlist; as follows

Elegia 
Leave Me Alone
Regret
Crystal
1963
Superheated
Love Vigilantes 
Your Silent Face
Mr Disco
True Faith
Dream Attack
Vanishing Point
Touched By The Hand of God
The Perfect Kiss
Bizarre Love Triangle '94
Procession
Atmosphere

Temptation 7"
Blue Monday
Ceremony