Peter Dow's political defence -v- "criminal tweets" charge

[eFestivals]

nice song.

they headlined Glasto the first year I went ('86) .. tho they were just starting their wet american phase. Saw them again about a year ago in a 500-ish capacity venue in Bristol, loved it cos we got all the older songs :D

[Yoghurt on a Stick]

nope. Different legal system.

I had a feeling that might be the case. I thought it was worth mentioning just to be on the safe side. That said, although it would have no direct association with Scottish case law it could possibly be referenced at some point - perhaps as an observation that another jurisdiction has seen fit to dismiss such a misdemenour / it being an affront to Peters basic human right to swear like a navvy about what should be done with the queen!

[Peter Dow]

so scotland's GDP would be 33% higher

33% higher is quite achievable.

List of countries by GDP (PPP) per capita -

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_GDP_(PPP)_per_capita

The UK ranks somewhere about 24th to 30th place in the world rankings.

The USA ranks somewhere from 10th to 12th place and Americans earn about 33% per person more than Britons do, so it is reasonable to expect Scotland or Britain to perform as well as the USA, if we became a republic and put a stop to police state wrecking of the economy.

33% is a modest improvement to aim for. But why stop there? Even Singapore, a little island city state with no natural resources to speak of which makes its money from the home-grown talents of the people of Singapore is 100% wealthier per person than we are!

if police stopped raiding scientists and stealing their computers?

Yes that sort of thing, not raiding homes, not seizing property, not arresting, not jailing, not tasering, not hitting with truncheons, not handcuffing, not tackling to the ground, not threatening with a knife, not shooting - not doing all the things that police do.

Also not just stop the police abusing scientists but stop the police abusing all the people that scientists can help to grow the economy - engineers, technicians, doctors, architects, other professionals, blue collar and manual workers etc.

Essentially the police should confine themselves to arresting dangerous criminals and leave the rest of us well alone.

It stands to reason that if someone is doing their duty to grow the economy and the police come along and stop them, then that sort of police misbehaviour is going to stunt the growth of the country's economy.

However, it is unrealistic to expect the police of their own accord to stop abusing innocent people. Police aren't smart enough to know the difference between innocent people and real criminals.

So someone, some new head of state, the elected president of a new republic will have to stop the police, sack the incompetent chief constables and other incompetent police officers, arrest police officers who violate their duty.

The UK police are a bad lot but the problem is also with the UK prosecution authorities who put the police up to bad behaviour and the problem is also with the judiciary who rubber-stamp all this police state wrong-doing.

Are you alchemists?

No. Alchemists are not scientists.

Edited November 5, 2015 by Peter Dow

[gary1979666]

Sorry, not sure if I'm completely miss understanding you or not.  Are you saying that there are arrests/tasering/raids...which is stopping a third of UK business?  That's a lot of busines - official figures don't really back that up in the number of arrests/crimes/etc, unless they've secretly got the UK's Bill Gates hidden away in shackles.  What's the basis of those figures - as just saying it's 33% higher in the US doesn't seem like a solid leap, given there must be a lot of factors which are in play between the UK and US.  Are you sure it's not just down to them driving on the right, or their even higher levels of obesity, or and other distinguishing factor?

[Peter Dow]

GDP is turn-over, not profit. It actually means very little to the rewards (pay) people receive.

GDP is not "turn-over" but is defined as "an aggregate measure of production equal to the sum of the gross values added of all resident, institutional units engaged in production (plus any taxes, and minus any subsidies, on products not included in the value of their outputs)".

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gross_domestic_product

However, you are correct to point out that GDP does not determine how the created wealth is shared out, which has much more to with politics than economics. 

But talk about an idiot statement, anyway - cos that's what it is. Somalia is also a republic, why doesn't that count?

A nation's wealth has nothing, zero, zilch, to do with a country's constitutional status, and everything to do with its historical position and the surplus it may or may not create from the hard work of its people.

Becoming a republic doesn't magically shower a country with money.

>    Here's an idea for you. Try reading what I actually wrote instead of just quoting it without reading it.

I read it, and I understand it better than you do.

What you say reveals you as a wacko fruitcake for whom facts mean nothing and where making up idiot ideas free of facts trumps all sense.

You reveal it by believing that republics automatically mean more money.

Oil-rich Arab kingdoms also rank highly in the GDP per capita list, as can any country with a bounty of natural resources.

The "Democratic People's Republic of Korea" (North Korea) ranks far down the list because in reality it is run as a kingdom, with a very oppressive police state.

So it is by no means as simple as you suggest I was suggesting.

What matters a lot is how easy the state makes it to do business, to make best use of the country's economic potential, whatever that is.

What republicans offer is the political plan to improve the economy of any country which is being badly run by a monarch, be that a real monarch such as Queen Elizabeth or a monarch in all but name, such as the head of state of North Korea. The republican plan is to change the leadership of the state from one which makes business harder to one which makes business easier.

 

 

Edited November 5, 2015 by Peter Dow

[Peter Dow]

> The problem is the police raiding houses and business premises, seizing economic means of production, arresting and jailing key economic personnel, terrorizing key economic personnel out of the economy, sometimes out of the country all together.

Peter, you should take up comedy.

Or perhaps it's only in Scotland that your mystical police state operates in, cos this businessman has been free of police raids at the various points he's been in business (for over 20 years of the last 30 years).

 

But you are forced to pay taxes which fund police who wreck or frustrate other businesses. So you may not have been raided yourself but you have been forced to pay for other police raids.

[eFestivals]

33% higher is quite achievable.

by magic, yeah? Maybe you could put yourself forwards as Sturgeon's economic advisor.

It's all so easy to do that no one is currently bothering to make themselves richer by 33%. That's how "quite achievable" it is.

FFS.

[eFestivals]

GDP is not "turn-over"

Oh yes it is.

It is the gross national product of a country (turnover), that has no direct relationship with what people earn (sort-of 'profit' and sort-of 'wealth' - tho not exactly) within that country.

 

 

 

[eFestivals]

But you are forced to pay taxes which fund police who wreck or frustrate other businesses. So you may not have been raided yourself but you have been forced to pay for other police raids.

Oh FFS.

Yep, you should be locked up. Not as a criminal, but as a nutter.

 

[Peter Dow]

Sorry, not sure if I'm completely miss understanding you or not.  Are you saying that there are arrests/tasering/raids...which is stopping a third of UK business?  That's a lot of busines - official figures don't really back that up in the number of arrests/crimes/etc, unless they've secretly got the UK's Bill Gates hidden away in shackles.  

Leading innovators and entrepreneurs have a disproportionate influence. If the American police had harassed Bill Gates and he had emigrated to the UK as a young man then he would have made his fortune here. Normally the brain drain is the other way - to America and that helps their economy.

North Korea's "Bill Gates" if he is not hidden away in shackles, is probably trying to figure out a way to cross from North Korea to South Korea where his abilities would be nurtured.

Although the police are the state's enforcers, the action taken to suppress talent, to wreck a business may only use the police as a threat - for example, defamation lawyers may be used by university managers to destroy civil liberties and academic freedom in the university they mismanage.

It may be bailiffs or Sheriff's officers who do the raid. There may not be an actual crime report or arrest involved. But the champion of the economy who is being obstructed by the state knows very well that if he or she resists the state wrecking of everything he or she is offering to the economy, then that champion of the economy would be arrested and there would be a crime report. 

 What's the basis of those figures - as just saying it's 33% higher in the US doesn't seem like a solid leap, given there must be a lot of factors which are in play between the UK and US.  Are you sure it's not just down to them driving on the right, or their even higher levels of obesity, or and other distinguishing factor?

More likely distinguishing factors towards US success are states which encourage free enterprise and support centres of excellence in education, research and development, which nurture home-grown talent and attract the best from all around the world. Such factors have arisen from a free country which has a history of perfecting democracy and republicanism.

Whereas in the UK, it doesn't really count with the police state how much an intelligent person can help the economy if the person is intelligent enough to know that Queen Elizabeth is a bad head of state and brave enough to say so then the police state is going to make that person's life hell and stop him or her contributing in the best possible way.

What counts with the UK police state is saving their face and not allowing anyone to embarrass the police state for their stupidity and support for the monarchy. If arresting republicans impoverishes the country, takes 33% or more off GDP, that is a price worth paying as far as the UK police state is concerned.

Not that the police state think these things out. The UK police charge republicans on instinct sort of like the way bulls will charge at someone waving a red cape.

There's no reasoning with the UK police. They are unreasonable people and need stopping by force, by a republican army.

Edited November 5, 2015 by Peter Dow

[Peter Dow]

by magic, yeah? Maybe you could put yourself forwards as Sturgeon's economic advisor.

It's all so easy to do that no one is currently bothering to make themselves richer by 33%. That's how "quite achievable" it is.

FFS.

It's perfectly easy not to do wrecking acts, such as not to seize a scientist's computer or to return it.

It's easy to help the economy. But the pigs don't like helping the economy. They like causing misfortune to innocent people and having a laugh about it.

[eFestivals]

It's perfectly easy not to do wrecking acts, such as not to seize a scientist's computer or to return it.

It's easy to help the economy. But the pigs don't like helping the economy. They like causing misfortune to innocent people and having a laugh about it.

How many scientists are having their research stolen and destroyed, Peter?

Do you really think there's so many of them they could make that big a difference to the economy?

If there was a magic formula to make ourselves richer, someone somewhere would be doing it, surely? And yet no one is.

So anyway, presumably, as you don't like the old bill, you approve of the tory govt who are currently inflicting massive cuts on police forces (yes, even Scotland's via indirect means)?

[Peter Dow]

How many scientists are having their research stolen and destroyed, Peter?

Here are a couple of links which list a few of the more famous examples of persecuted scientists.

Galileo to Turing: The Historical Persecution of Scientists

Persecution of Noted Physicians and Medical Scientists

Giordano Bruno and Andrei Sakharov are two more names which spring to my mind.

So many, yes, but how many exactly, I don't know.

Then add in all the persecuted engineers, architects, artists, etc. who have been persecuted or obstructed in their work and it all adds up.

Do you really think there's so many of them they could make that big a difference to the economy?

Oh yes.

If there was a magic formula to make ourselves richer,

Republicanism is not "magic". It is a tried and tested way of getting better government that makes a country and its people richer.

someone somewhere would be doing it, surely? And yet no one is.

Someone somewhere is doing it. France, Finland, Iceland, Taiwan, Germany, Austria, Ireland, the United States, Switzerland, San Marino, Singapore.

So anyway, presumably, as you don't like the old bill, you approve of the tory govt who are currently inflicting massive cuts on police forces (yes, even Scotland's via indirect means)?

I don't approve of the Tory government in general, no.

Specifically, I wouldn't trust the Tories or any UK government or the devolved Scotland-in-the-UK government to sack the bad police officers and retain the officers who are OK.

But yes, cut the bad police and the bad prosecutors but keep up spending on defence lawyers and appeals, so that all the political prisoners have as good a chance as possible of getting released, with compensation.

Also I would look at the state reclaiming the salary increments of promoted officers, leaving them only the money they would have earned if they were only constables. The same goes for reclaiming salary increments of promoted prosecutors.

It is the leadership of police and prosecutors which is mostly at fault.

The money reclaimed from the promoted officials could be used to compensate the victims of wrongful arrests, raids, prosecutions etc.

Edited November 5, 2015 by Peter Dow

[eFestivals]

 

So many, yes, but how many exactly, I don't know.

but you do know it's worth exactly 33% extra to the intrinsic wealth of a country's population...?

It's an idea you have based on nothing but you having plucked america from the air, and saying "we can be as rich as them", just because you think we should be.

If thinking ourselves rich worked, we'd all be millionaires.

There's many reasons why America is richer, not least being the fact that by having the world's reserve currency the whole economic system is slanted in the USA's favour.

Nowhere in the list of reasons is because it's a republic. Republics come in all shapes and sizes and levels of success, no more or less than monarchies do.

There's plenty of great reasons to be a republic, but pig-ignorant takes about republics being intrinsically more wealthy isn't one of them.

 

 

[eFestivals]

Someone somewhere is doing it. France, Iceland, Taiwan, Germany, Austria, Ireland, the United States, Switzerland, San Marino, Singapore.

They're all doing republicanism, but they're not all 33% wealthier than Scotland is currently. Just one is.

Iceland and Ireland's economies went down the shitter, Austria is rumoured to be there soon. France's economy has tanked itself since 'the crash', as a result of making the sorts of economic choices that Corbyn would be proud of, Taiwan is near enough a one-party military dictatorship, Switzerland gets rich by enabling tax fraud (robbing other republics!), San Marino rides on the back of Italy, and Singapore is a London-like property madness, where land rarity value over-inflates the economy.

And the land of the free wants to make sure no one else is free.

Personally, I think you'd have done better if had included Somalia.

 

Edited November 5, 2015 by eFestivals

[Peter Dow]

but you do know it's worth exactly 33% extra to the intrinsic wealth of a country's population...?

It's an idea you have based on nothing but you having plucked america from the air, and saying "we can be as rich as them", just because you think we should be.

If thinking ourselves rich worked, we'd all be millionaires.

There's many reasons why America is richer, not least being the fact that by having the world's reserve currency the whole economic system is slanted in the USA's favour.

Nowhere in the list of reasons is because it's a republic. Republics come in all shapes and sizes and levels of success, no more or less than monarchies do.

There's plenty of great reasons to be a republic, but pig-ignorant takes about republics being intrinsically more wealthy isn't one of them.

 

 

It's like I said. It's about the police state - if it arrests, raids people in their work it stunts the economy. The republics I listed do as well or better than the UK and it is because the police there assist more, obstruct less than the UK police.

Sure a nominal "republic" with a vicious police state will have a wrecked economy. It's not about nominally being "a republic" it is about republicanism, freedom, democracy - the opposite of a pig-headed, pig-ignorant, pig-police state that wrecks the economy.

Simple.

Edited November 5, 2015 by Peter Dow

[eFestivals]

It's like I said. It's about the police state - if it arrests, raids people in their work it stunts the economy. The republics I listed do as well or better than the UK and it is because the police there assist more, obstruct less than the UK police.

financially, many of them don't.

And, if you were to look in prisons, you'll find the people the police concentrate on tend to not be the most productive. And the business-minded people in prison tend to be fraudsters - not productive at all.

 

Sure a nominal "republic" with a vicious police state will have a wrecked economy. It's not about nominally being "a republic" it is about republicanism, freedom, democracy - the opposite of a pig-headed, pig-ignorant, pig-police state that wrecks the economy.

Simple.

Just because you keep saying 'police state' and 'wrecked economy' doesn't make it true.

Evidence? Nothing of any substance.

[Peter Dow]

financially, many of them don't.

Apart from France, which is about the same as the UK, name one other from my list which is not better in GDP per capita than the UK.

And, if you were to look in prisons, you'll find the people the police concentrate on tend to not be the most productive. 

 

A tendency can hide a world of horrors.

Pontius Pilate tended to crucify criminals. Even on the day of Christ's crucifixion, the tendency was that 2 out of 3 persons crucified was not a kind and holy man.

Likewise with UK prisons, officialdom always want to advertise the illiterate, innumerate common criminals to deflect attention from the political prisoners they persecute in their prisons. They are ashamed to tell the whole truth and we should not spare their blushes.

And the business-minded people in prison tend to be fraudsters - not productive at all.

The most fraudulent and unproductive of business-men do not go to jail. Think of the financial crash, the bank bail-out and compare the £ billions cost to taxpayers of that to those who go to jail for mere £ thousands in fraud.

In fact, the police, prosecutors and courts will jail people for protesting loudly against fraud as I was once for a few days after not paying a £50 fine.

The post office had, perhaps still have, a nasty pro-fraud habit of cashing giro cheques of under a £100 without demanding identification from whomsoever presents the giro. My fortnightly giros for under a £100 were being routinely stolen from my communal mailbox and cashed at my local post office. I went to remonstrate politically with the post office manager who called the police. I was arrested, charged with a breach of the peace, fined £50 then jailed for non-payment of that unfair fine.

There I was trying to insist that at least the post office should not be allowed to make fraudulent payments in giros made out in my name - but the police state made a political prisoner out of me rather than admit I had a right to protest at the assistance and aiding and abetting of fraud by the post office.

Just because you keep saying 'police state' and 'wrecked economy' doesn't make it true.

Evidence? Nothing of any substance.

Well I have my own experience and I am a witness to the police confiscation of my irreplaceable scientific data.

A more famous example is that of Alan Turing, the most productive person in world war 2, breaking the Nazis Enigma code and giving the Allies a war-winning advantage. Yet after the war he was criminalised and persecuted even unto suicide. That is the precisely the same cruel pig-headed police state I experience today.

 

[russycarps]

Peter your anti-police stance will get a lot of support on here, but this fantastical angle you are pursuing is absolutely bonkers.

You are rightfully angry to have had your collar felt, but it isn't part of grand royalist plan to keep the economy depressed.

Can I ask, what is the scientific work you are pursuing that could give the economy a boost, and that the queens henchmen are sufficiently worried about to seize your laptop?

[Peter Dow]

Peter your anti-police stance will get a lot of support on here,

Thanks.

but this fantastical angle you are pursuing is absolutely bonkers.

You misunderstand everything I have written. There's no fantasy in what I know.

You are rightfully angry to have had your collar felt,

That at least you understand.

but it isn't part of grand royalist plan to keep the economy depressed.

Who said anything about a "plan to keep the economy depressed"? There is no such plan and I never suggested there was.

The instinct of the police is to silence the political opposition to their pig-headed dictatorship, to save their own face from being called out for their stupidity and their support for a monarchy and for royalist politicians who tell the police what they want to hear.

Didn't you read this? Or didn't you understand it?

Not that the police state think these things out. The UK police charge republicans on instinct sort of like the way bulls will charge at someone waving a red cape.

Now if you can tell me of a bull with a plan then I maybe I can figure out why you misunderstood me. On planet Earth, bulls don't make plans but sometimes they manage to gore a matador.

Can I ask, what is the scientific work you are pursuing that could give the economy a boost, 

Certainly. I listed some of my scientific work in my political defence blog.

I have published new scientific and engineering concepts and proposals regarding -

• making renewable energy more competitive, efficient and practical
• mathematics to maximise energy generated from wind turbines 'farms'
• designs for super-sized hydro-electric pumped-storage schemes
• an approach towards a cure for cancer
• a prototype of a cheap cryo-surgical instrument - my 'freezerbaton'
• H-shaped super-bricks for assembling stronger, lighter structures
• other published ideas in various scientific fields

and that the queens henchmen are sufficiently worried about to seize your laptop?

The police were oblivious to my scientific work. They seized my computer and hard-discs with their trotters as they would any citizen who had posted political comments which offended against their pig-headed sensibilities.

The police are an equal opportunity oppressor. I'm just pointing out that although all citizens can suffer as victims of unjustified police raids, it is not just the victim of police brutality, wrong-doing and violation of duty who suffers but the economy suffers too when citizens' computers are seized and the citizens' important work is obstructed.

Edited November 5, 2015 by Peter Dow

[russycarps]

Thanks.

You misunderstand everything I have written. There's no fantasy in what I know.

That at least you understand.

Who said anything about a "plan to keep the economy depressed"? There is no such plan and I never suggested there was.

The instinct of the police is to silence the political opposition to their pig-headed dictatorship, to save their own face from being called out for their stupidity and their support for a monarchy and for royalist politicians who tell the police what they want to hear.

Didn't you read this? Or didn't you understand it?

Now if you can tell me of a bull with a plan then I maybe I can figure out why you misunderstood me. On planet Earth, bulls don't make plans but sometimes they manage to gore a Matador.

Certainly. I listed some of my scientific work in my political defence blog.

I have published new scientific and engineering concepts and proposals regarding -

• making renewable energy more competitive, efficient and practical
• mathematics to maximise energy generated from wind turbines 'farms'
• designs for super-sized hydro-electric pumped-storage schemes
• an approach towards a cure for cancer
• a prototype of a cheap cryo-surgical instrument - my 'freezerbaton'
• H-shaped super-bricks for assembling stronger, lighter structures
• other published ideas in various scientific fields

The police were obvious to my scientific work. They seized my computer and hard-discs with their trotters as they would any citizen who had posted political comments which offended against their pig-headed sensibilities.

The police are an equal opportunity oppressor. I'm just pointing out that although all citizens can suffer as victims of unjustified police raids, it is not just the victim of police brutality, wrong-doing and violation of duty who suffers but the economy suffers too when citizens' computers are seized and the citizens' important work is obstructed.

ok I had misunderstood, apologies. The hit to the economy is just collateral damage then, as it were. An unfortunate by product of the police raids. 

I will read through the links and respond later.

 

 

 

 

[Peter Dow]

ok I had misunderstood, apologies. The hit to the economy is just collateral damage then, as it were. An unfortunate by product of the police raids. 

Precisely. No need to apologise since it is my pleasure to be understood.

 

I will read through the links and respond later.

It's good to be on the same page as you!  

[Comfy Bean]

What's really shocking about that was how much that bullshit was lapped up at the time, and even more shocking is that even after the oil price crash that bullshit is still being believed by many.

 

 

People in Scotland didn't believe the heavy price they'd pay for independence made independence worthwhile. It's all about the money!

Surely a contradiction in the space of 10mins.

You have always thought it was all about money, greed, selfishness 

It`s a shame that you cannot understand what continues to drive the working class folks of Scotland to move away from "our" Tory masters.

Oh, and how many threads on here do you need to put the boot in 

 

 

 

[Comfy Bean]

 

Certainly. I listed some of my scientific work in my political defence blog.

I have published new scientific and engineering concepts and proposals regarding -

• making renewable energy more competitive, efficient and practical
• mathematics to maximise energy generated from wind turbines 'farms'
• designs for super-sized hydro-electric pumped-storage schemes
• an approach towards a cure for cancer
• a prototype of a cheap cryo-surgical instrument - my 'freezerbaton'
• H-shaped super-bricks for assembling stronger, lighter structures
• other published ideas in various scientific fields

 

Just caught up with this thread Peter. It`s a pity that Neil has chosen to turn it into yet another SNP bad thread.

Your latest post reminded me of this fine tune and the story behind the video. I wish you well going forward sir 

 

[Peter Dow]

Just caught up with this thread Peter. It`s a pity that Neil has chosen to turn it into yet another SNP bad thread.

Your latest post reminded me of this fine tune and the story behind the video. I wish you well going forward sir 

Thank you kindly, good sir. 

This video is particularly appropriate if the scientist was being arrested for offending the authorities for something other than his rain-making machine, something trivial which had offended their pig-headed sensibilities such as cuddling his assistant and he was being brought up on a "sexually harassing an employee" charge and the pigs wrecked his lab just for a laugh.

Edited November 5, 2015 by Peter Dow