Are we In or Out?

[RichardWaller]

4 minutes ago, FuzzyDunlop said:

I think (I maybe wrong) but Jezza is an "outer" isn't he traditionally? I think he is keeping a low profile to not give Tories anything to aim at. They are infighting themselves.

That makes sense, if he is. I don't know if he is traditionally or currently either way. We all know no opportunity to sling mud at him will be wasted.

[eFestivals]

9 minutes ago, FuzzyDunlop said:

I think (I maybe wrong) but Jezza is an "outer" isn't he traditionally? I think he is keeping a low profile to not give Tories anything to aim at. They are infighting themselves.

cos Jezza looking good over his non-principles is more important to Jezza than the right result for the country....?

He really is mighty mighty shit, and i hate to say it but Blair nailed him 100% accurately yesterday.

 

[paulmuchmore]

Corby has been out campaigning every day from what I've seen. He's just not in the headlines every day. Whether that's a good or bad thing is up to you. To me, he should be trying to get more press, as all the leading campaigning news coming from tories surely can't be a good thing. Maybe he is trying to get publicity, but the press is ignoring him? Apart from when something controversial happens like the booing of Laura Kuennsberg. 

[eFestivals]

8 minutes ago, RichardWaller said:

I generally don't tend to pay attention to much he says, only came to me attention cos of Facebook.

Here we go again... Did I say he isn't permitted his opinion? Bringing longevity into it just smacks a bit of respect your elders. I can understand pop stars, actors, celebrities being asked their political opinions when they're current and in the public eye but Mick Hucknall seemed to spring out of nowhere to me and that's just me. Suppose the lad's got a tour to sell.

I didn't say you said that - but you are choosing to highlight what people are saying on facebook about how Hucknall shouldn't be allowed his opinion ... and I don't remember ever hearing similar criticisms of those within Labour, Jezza included, who spent years saying "Blair is shit".

As I just said, Hucknall is a life-long Labour supporter. He was doing the Red Wedge tours before Jezza was an MP. To you he might be just an ageing pop star, but for those in the know he's a Labour activist with a history as long as Jezza as that. Have you ever even stopped to think why the band have the name they do?

 

8 minutes ago, RichardWaller said:

Fair enough, ask where Jeremy is, ask what his stance is but what's the need to carry on with the stream of nasty personal insults?

Get back to me when pointing out that Jezza is shit is able to be accepted as constructive criticism and the tin-foil hats - Jezza's included - are in the recycling.

[p.pete]

28 minutes ago, eFestivals said:

It was days ago Hucknall said that. Good to see the arse-wipers are so on the money as normal.

Can to fill us in why someone who's been prominent in the Labour movement for over 30 years - more years than Jezza, btw - isn't permitted his opinion?

Where is Jezza, anyway? No one seems to know. Which was Hucknall's point, I think.

Is it important we stay in, or is it important we leave, or doesn't it matter? If Jezza isn't leading Labour it doesn't matter to Jezza.

 

He's just jealous Jezza has a gig at Glastonbury   Where is Hucknall at the end of June, who cares?  

[eFestivals]

2 minutes ago, paulmuchmore said:

Corby has been out campaigning every day from what I've seen.

You've been following him on t0our...?

 

2 minutes ago, paulmuchmore said:

He's just not in the headlines every day.

And a leader who fails to make headlines is leading who, exactly...?

 

2 minutes ago, paulmuchmore said:

Whether that's a good or bad thing is up to you. To me, he should be trying to get more press, as all the leading campaigning news coming from tories surely can't be a good thing. Maybe he is trying to get publicity, but the press is ignoring him? Apart from when something controversial happens like the booing of Laura Kuennsberg. 

jezza very deliberately doesn't want more press - his own choice, no one else's. Given that you've just said he's (IYO) doing it wrong, perhaps criticisms of him are fair enough after all?

Jezza doesn't want press because the poor old sod doesn't like it that his thoughts and words are scrutinised, when he believes they should be accepted without question.

[p.pete]

15 hours ago, eFestivals said:

Funnily enough, even if a party wanted it to happen it couldn't. The UK doesn't meet the Euro entry criteria, our economy is too fucked.

Yep, that's right, the disaster currency that's been on the verge of instant collapse since the moment of its launch 16 years ago is too strong a currency to be able to accept the UK.

In fact, the Euro has been such a disaster and the glorious pound such a success that the Euro is far stronger against the pound today than on the day of the Euro's launch.

http://www.pounds2euro.com/Charts

I'm thinking someone somewhere might not like these awkward facts.

Looks like Labour f**ked the pound, the coalition were gradually fixing it, and now starting to be f**ked again - maybe they can get the two currencies level and there can just be a straight swap overnight without any initial conversion rates to figure out - just change everything from £ to € overnight.

[RichardWaller]

19 minutes ago, eFestivals said:

I didn't say you said that - but you are choosing to highlight what people are saying on facebook about how Hucknall shouldn't be allowed his opinion ... and I don't remember ever hearing similar criticisms of those within Labour, Jezza included, who spent years saying "Blair is shit".

As I just said, Hucknall is a life-long Labour supporter. He was doing the Red Wedge tours before Jezza was an MP. To you he might be just an ageing pop star, but for those in the know he's a Labour activist with a history as long as Jezza as that. Have you ever even stopped to think why the band have the name they do?

You're projecting again. I've not highlighted anything anyone has said about Mick Hucknall, I've highlighted what he's said about Jeremy Corbyn. That's all. It struck me as odd seeing as Mick Hucknall, relative to his own career, is someone who's arguably shrunk a bit from the public eye. But like I said, suppose he's got a tour to sell. 

Fine, he's a life long Labour supporter. What's the guidelines, how does it work, how do you value one supporter's opinions and contributions over another's? He's a Man U fan.

 

Quote

Get back to me when pointing out that Jezza is shit is able to be accepted as constructive criticism and the tin-foil hats - Jezza's included - are in the recycling.

I'll get back to you if you're ever less rude and a bit more respectful. There's civil, constructive criticism and there's insults and smears and I think I know which you prefer.

Edited June 9, 2016 by RichardWaller

[krisskross]

19 minutes ago, paulmuchmore said:

Corby has been out campaigning every day from what I've seen. He's just not in the headlines every day. Whether that's a good or bad thing is up to you. To me, he should be trying to get more press, as all the leading campaigning news coming from tories surely can't be a good thing. Maybe he is trying to get publicity, but the press is ignoring him? Apart from when something controversial happens like the booing of Laura Kuennsberg. 

Sadiq Khan with Yvette Cooper, Chuka Umanna and Harriet Harman doing a press thing today for IN. Wheres Corbyn? Its not the press ignoring him, he's ignoring the press.

 

[eFestivals]

2 minutes ago, RichardWaller said:

You're projecting again. I've not highlighted anything anyone has said about Mick Hucknall, I've highlighted what he's said about Jeremy Corbyn. That's all. It struck me as odd seeing as Mick Hucknall, relative to his own career, is someone who's arguably shrunk a bit from the public eye. But like I said, suppose he's got a tour to sell. 

Fine, he's a life long Labour supporter. What's the guidelines, how does it work, how do you value one supporter's opinions and contributions over another's? He's a Man U fan.

It's not "odd" about Hucknall. It's fuck all to do with a tour to sell.

But don't let your own projections take over. Oh, too late, that's where you started from.

It's not about valuing one over another's, it's about accepting the right of people to have their say, rather than criticising them just because what they've said doesn't suit the Stalinist approach that the Jezuits would prefer.

 

2 minutes ago, RichardWaller said:

I'll get back to you when you if you're ever less rude and a bit more respectful.

respectful enough to know the facts to understand what's being said and why, rather than shooting from the fact-free hip?

There's more than one respectful.

[p.pete]

3 minutes ago, RichardWaller said:

You're projecting again. I've not highlighted anything anyone has said about Mick Hucknall, I've highlighted what he's said about Jeremy Corbyn. That's all. It struck me as odd seeing as Mick Hucknall, relative to his own career, is someone who's arguably shrunk a bit from the public eye. But like I said, suppose he's got a tour to sell. 

Fine, he's a life long Labour supporter. What's the guidelines, how does it work, how do you value one supporter's opinions and contributions over another's? He's a Man U fan.

 

I'll get back to you if you're ever less rude and a bit more respectful.

Jezza is shit.  He needs to have a larger profile - make more overtures towards why we need to stay in Europe.  Rather than filling his schedule with pokey little events he needs to be making himself more available to the media.  Maybe share his schedule with the media and they'll turn up to the events that he's going to.

He'll be on Sky news 3 days before the election, he needs to be more visibly playing a part.

However... while Sadiq Khan and Tony Blair criticising might be newsworthy, Mick Hucknall?  Fully agree with the direction you're driving at Richard.  If they (collectively) genuinely want to provide feedback, is the media the right way of going about it?  Maybe Sadiq shouldn't be losing potential undecided Labour remain voters by sharing a platform with porky scameron, maybe he should focus on his bad press so far with regards to his role as London mayor - maybe he's got larger political capital to gain by attacking corbyn than doing his own job properly?  Maybe blair nailed Corbyn perfectly as Neil suggests, but maybe he's getting his blows in early ahead of the chilcott findings, fair enough either way.  

Seems if you're happy to say corbyn's shit then it's newsworthy.  Yes, he's shit, hopefully he takes the feedback on board - but Mick Hucknall? pfft

[p.pete]

12 minutes ago, krisskross said:

Sadiq Khan with Yvette Cooper, Chuka Umanna and Harriet Harman doing a press thing today for IN. Wheres Corbyn? Its not the press ignoring him, he's ignoring the press.

 

Wouldn't imagine he got invited to that one! - though he probably wouldn't have bothered either way

[krisskross]

1 minute ago, p.pete said:

Wouldn't imagine he got invited to that one! - though he probably wouldn't have bothered either way

The invite got lost in the post! *Seamus Milne furiously shredding some documents out of sight*

[eFestivals]

8 minutes ago, p.pete said:

 Maybe blair nailed Corbyn perfectly as Neil suggests, but maybe he's getting his blows in early ahead of the chilcott findings, fair enough either way.  

oh, I don't doubt that Blair has his eye on Chilcott.

Even so, what he said about "the politics of power" and "the politics of protest" was spot on. No matter what your dreams in principle, there's a real world that has to be navigated.

Edited June 9, 2016 by eFestivals

[p.pete]

Just now, eFestivals said:

oh, I don't doubt that Blair has his eye on Chilcott.

Even so, what he said about "the politics of power" and "the politics of protest" was spot on. No matter what your dreams in principle, there's a real world that has to be navigated.

Very true - and that's another reason for corbyn being shit, his narrow focus on his pet-protest issues that probably won't win votes and are more likely to scare many potential voters away.  Another area where feedback desperately needs to be taken on board.  I'm still a corbyn supporter, a corbynista if you must Neil, but happy to see he there's a long way to go (up to four years thankfully) to get things in the right direction, but regrettably while comments from hucknall amount to a pile of crap comments from Blair are definitely newsworthy.

Corbyn offers the easy political capital, and blair and khan are going to take it - and as per krisskross's post, so too are cooper and umana and harman...

[krisskross]

2 minutes ago, p.pete said:

Very true - and that's another reason for corbyn being shit, his narrow focus on his pet-protest issues that probably won't win votes and are more likely to scare many potential voters away.  Another area where feedback desperately needs to be taken on board.  I'm still a corbyn supporter, a corbynista if you must Neil, but happy to see he there's a long way to go (up to four years thankfully) to get things in the right direction, but regrettably while comments from hucknall amount to a pile of crap comments from Blair are definitely newsworthy.

Corbyn offers the easy political capital, and blair and khan are going to take it - and as per krisskross's post, so too are cooper and umana and harman...

Its not just narrowing his focus on his issues, its also on his audience. He's happy to speak to a small audience but he's not prepared to speak to the nation. 

[p.pete]

4 minutes ago, krisskross said:

Its not just narrowing his focus on his issues, its also on his audience. He's happy to speak to a small audience but he's not prepared to speak to the nation. 

To be fair he'll do some sort of tv thing 3 days before the election - but yep, I'd said he was shit for that generally in a previous post, so decided not to repeat myself too much.  Diary filled with lots of little events, lots of people who probably already like him turning out to applaud.  I'll try be there Sunday morning of Glastonbury

Edit:  TV event: http://news.sky.com/story/1708923/eu-vote-corbyn-to-face-live-sky-news-audience I hope Kay Burley is ready for some hissing!

Edited June 9, 2016 by p.pete

[clarkete]

29 minutes ago, eFestivals said:

Even so, what he said about "the politics of power" and "the politics of protest" was spot on. No matter what your dreams in principle, there's a real world that has to be navigated.

But he never even mentioned "the politics of dancing".

It's a bloody outrage.

[RichardWaller]

50 minutes ago, eFestivals said:

It's not "odd" about Hucknall. It's fuck all to do with a tour to sell.

But don't let your own projections take over. Oh, too late, that's where you started from.

It's not about valuing one over another's, it's about accepting the right of people to have their say, rather than criticising them just because what they've said doesn't suit the Stalinist approach that the Jezuits would prefer.

 

respectful enough to know the facts to understand what's being said and why, rather than shooting from the fact-free hip?

There's more than one respectful.

Like I said, he's not in the public eye like he used to be. That's all I said. I haven't said he's got no right to express a view, why the hell would I? And course I don't think Corbyn's untouchable either, nobody is exempt from criticism. It'd just be nice if it were a bit more constructive sometimes rather than insults over and over and over. Yes, as leader Corbyn is responsible for party unity but he's not solely responsible by any stretch, that responsibility lies with all members.

I saw this yesterday and you've just reminded me of it because this is how you come across to me. John Spellar uses Momentum as an insult in a similar way to how you talk about Corbynistas and tin foil hats.

 

[eFestivals]

30 minutes ago, p.pete said:

Very true - and that's another reason for corbyn being shit, his narrow focus on his pet-protest issues that probably won't win votes and are more likely to scare many potential voters away.  Another area where feedback desperately needs to be taken on board.  I'm still a corbyn supporter, a corbynista if you must Neil, but happy to see he there's a long way to go (up to four years thankfully) to get things in the right direction, but regrettably while comments from hucknall amount to a pile of crap comments from Blair are definitely newsworthy.

Corbyn offers the easy political capital, and blair and khan are going to take it - and as per krisskross's post, so too are cooper and umana and harman...

When you're openly calling him shit, you're not a Corbynista you're on the Corbynista's hit list.

Like you, I'm not particularly against Corbyn ... yet I long ago concluded he's just not suitable to be leader. Yes there's 4 years to go but I can't see him improving, leaving his only hope of victory to the "my shit leader's less shit than your shit leader" thing ... which is depressing as fuck when this is often said to be the worst govt in history, and often by those who defend Corbyn's poor performance against them to the hilt.

[p.pete]

6 minutes ago, eFestivals said:

When you're openly calling him shit, you're not a Corbynista you're on the Corbynista's hit list.

There's only one left???

Edited June 9, 2016 by p.pete

[eFestivals]

4 minutes ago, RichardWaller said:

Like I said, he's not in the public eye like he used to be. That's all I said. I haven't said he's got no right to express a view, why the hell would I? And course I don't think Corbyn's untouchable either, nobody is exempt from criticism. It'd just be nice if it were a bit more constructive sometimes rather than insults over and over and over.

What Hucknall said was constructive - in the sense that he said what he thought Cobyn should be doing instead of the seemingly-nothing that is the general public view of things.

Hucknall was saying that Corbyn might be an effective leader if he tried leading.

How much more constructive do you want it?

[p.pete]

2 minutes ago, eFestivals said:

What Hucknall said was constructive - in the sense that he said what he thought Cobyn should be doing instead of the seemingly-nothing that is the general public view of things.

Hucknall was saying that Corbyn might be an effective leader if he tried leading.

How much more constructive do you want it?

Sounds glowing - so can we complain about the median then, because some of the headlines were:

'Mick Hucknall Attacks Jeremy Corbyn As ‘Spineless Coward’ Over EU Referendum' (Huffington post)

and 'Mick Hucknall attacks Jeremy Corbyn as a 'shabby spineless coward' over the EU' (Mirror)

[eFestivals]

18 minutes ago, p.pete said:

Sounds glowing - so can we complain about the median then, because some of the headlines were:

'Mick Hucknall Attacks Jeremy Corbyn As ‘Spineless Coward’ Over EU Referendum' (Huffington post)

and 'Mick Hucknall attacks Jeremy Corbyn as a 'shabby spineless coward' over the EU' (Mirror)

You can't really blame Hucknall for the media's choice to use one particular snippet from a bigger set of words as their headlines.

You can blame the commentators on those headlines for not reading the articles to see all of what *he said, to grasp the context.

(*not something I agree with particularly, btw - but it's a valid point of view, and points of view are allowed, right...?).

Other things to consider include why there's less scope for positive stories around Jezza than there were (for example) positive stories around Miliband, which ensures that the mostly-irrelevant words of Hucknall gets reported when they might not otherwise have been.

Edited June 9, 2016 by eFestivals

[p.pete]

3 minutes ago, eFestivals said:

Other things to consider include why there's less scope for positive stories around Jezza than there were (for example) positive stories around Miliband, which ensures that the mostly-irrelevant words of Hucknall gets reported when they might not otherwise have been.

I think there's plenty of 'scope' for positive stories.

And with regards Miliband getting a good rub of the green "Approximately 95% of tabloid editorials were anti-Labour in the run-up to the election, with many of those directly aimed at Miliband" (source)