Are we In or Out?

[Spindles]

6 hours ago, dentalplan said:

Am I reading this wrong or is the amount of UKIP supporters wanting UK independence less than 100%?

The party, while known in recent years for being jingoistic anti-immigration focussed, wasn't always so, some members might be more focussed on the principle of personal independence and responsibility which the party once claimed to stand for before Farage and the loony right took control and attracting the racists and xenophobes en masse with their vile rhetoric.

[eFestivals]

15 hours ago, Thevorpalblade said:

OECD 2016: "concern over pressure placed on schools by immigration. Larger classes hamper children's education".

Controlled education expenditure + uncontrolled immigration = disaster.

 

Vote IN to screw our children's future.

#goteamHunt

 

well I never knew that the EU ran our schools and that it's their fault they're run so badly.

I guess it was the EU that told that nice Mr Gove to tell local authorities that they weren't allowed to build new schools, which has caused the over-crowding now. I guess that's why the nice Mr Gove wants to blame he EU for the things he did.

I feel so much smarter now that you've educated me about these things.

[Pbird81]

12 hours ago, JanieM28 said:

Stupid question, I'm afraid, but, perhaps, the more knowledgeable among you may be able to answer with some facts (not opinions). 

I've been reading as much as I can before putting my cross in the box and came across the Q & As in the Indie, one of which was:

Are there any grounds on which an EU state can prevent another European citizen from visiting or from migrating?

Yes, there are. In principle any EU citizen has the right to seek and take work in any member state and have the same tax regime and social benefits as anyone else. Member states are, however, allowed to refuse entry on the grounds of “public policy, public security or public health”. A known German criminal could not demand the right to come to Britain to compete with our own criminals.

There is also another restriction. Freedom of movement does not apply to jobs in the “public service”.  

If our government, whether blue, red, or any other colour, wanted to restrict/limit/control, wouldn't they be able to do it on 'public policy, public security...'grounds? For example: we don't accept convicted murderers or suspected terrorists.

Why wouldn't this be feasible under current freedom of movement rules?

Would that be what the French used to stop the aid convoy to Calais yesterday? There's also the thing about how in theory freedom of movement only applies if you are actually looking for work - don't think the UK has used this (though Cameron has been talking about it) - Spain certainly used to require Brits to show they could support themselves after three months in Spain to get residence (may have been a formality).

There's definitely something about public service - when I was at uni, I noticed that some Civil Service jobs were reserved for UK nationals (Foreign Office, definitely) as well as stuff like MI5, GCHQ, etc...

[brettredmayne]

18 hours ago, DeanoL said:

I've got plenty of hate but am never going to kill anyone. Takes a twisted brain to do that.

Quite liked this video from an academic looking at the actual consequences of leaving.

 

That's a great video and tries his best to explain complicated issues in a way for everyone to understand.

its quite frightening how these basic facts have not been pushed by the remain campaign 

[Thevorpalblade]

I'm looking for volunteers to drive coaches to Turkey, Serbia, Montenegro, Macedonia and Albania. Lots of drivers. Business is likely to be very rewarding.

We need to get builders. Perhaps millions. And we'll make loads of money!

If we vote IN we'll need builders to build hospitals and schools here in Britain to cater for the influx of, up to, 85 million Turk's etc.

Healthcare will be provided by tax payers of Britain. Education will be paid for by the tax payers of Britain. Families with children can jump the housing queue and get emergency accommodation from councils.

Oh, silly me. They can drive themselves here and there's nothing we can do about it.

I'm voting IN.

#screwBritain

[CaledonianGonzo]

Superb stuff.

[danbailey80]

My favourite Thevor post yet. Brilliant. The ramblings of a village idiot. 

[Spindles]

 

58 minutes ago, Thevorpalblade said:

I'm voting out because I support ignorance, tribalism, jingoism and irrational fear of the unknown.  I've never actually competed with anyone from outside of my country for anything in my life, nor will I ever, but I've become convinced that somehow I am losing out because the Scum and Daily Heil have been telling me so daily for years.  I support violence and hatred against minorities, the removal of the rights of the weakest in society and a strong desire to overcompensate for my own failures and poor decisions in life.  I talk entirely in hypothetical statements because nothing I believe has any basis in provable fact.

#OtherSideOfTheCoin

 

[phil the shrew]

Part of me kind of hopes Leave win, then stand back and watch the Leave team try and actually implement their ideas. Shouting Britain is Great might work for the referendum not sure it works quite so well in trade negotiations and courts of law

[Mr.Tease]

14 minutes ago, phil the shrew said:

Part of me kind of hopes Leave win, then stand back and watch the Leave team try and actually implement their ideas. Shouting Britain is Great might work for the referendum not sure it works quite so well in trade negotiations and courts of law

Unfortunately we'd all be passengers on their fucked up voyage of doom- can you imagine getting back from glastonbury only to have the grim reality of a government led by Boris, Gove and Farage sink in, with all the twits who voted for them waving their flags and whooping with delight about making britain great again.

[Spindles]

Anything that gives comfort to fascists is not worth contemplating.

[majormajormajor]

odds seriously shortened in the past 24 hours. now 1.2 for remain 4/1 for leave.

i am still worried but less so than say this time last week.

[st dan]

I find it hard to believe that Jo Cox's tragic murder hasn't had an impact on this sudden, dramatic late surge for Remain. Those undecided may have now decided that they want to distant themselves from anything to do with these 'Britain First' (insert swear word of choice).

Not that it should be used as a political tool in the slightest, but the timing coupled with Nigel's ludicrously racist poster seems to have helped gain the extra voters required for (hopefully) a Remain victory. 

[eFestivals]

7 minutes ago, st dan said:

I find it hard to believe that Jo Cox's tragic murder hasn't had an impact on this sudden, dramatic late surge for Remain. Those undecided may have now decided that they want to distant themselves from anything to do with these 'Britain First' (insert swear word of choice).

Not that it should be used as a political tool in the slightest, but the timing coupled with Nigel's ludicrously racist poster seems to have helped gain the extra voters required for (hopefully) a Remain victory. 

in all of the previous referendums in the UK - no matter which way the result turned out - the 'change' side peaked in the polls around a week or ten days before, and the 'no change' side gained a little in the remaining days and in the result.

So while things certainly seem more positive for remain than last week, that doesn't necessarily mean they'll win (tho fingers crossed they do).

Cameron on the QT special last night looked fucked, like it's taking its toll on him. That suggests to me that he thinks the result of far from certain.

 

[jimmillen]

I know they're programmatic with no way to control what appears, but a little startled to see a Vote Leave ad pop up at the bottom of the screen just now... 

[Teddington]

20 hours ago, eFestivals said:

in all of the previous referendums in the UK - no matter which way the result turned out - the 'change' side peaked in the polls around a week or ten days before, and the 'no change' side gained a little in the remaining days and in the result.

So while things certainly seem more positive for remain than last week, that doesn't necessarily mean they'll win (tho fingers crossed they do).

Cameron on the QT special last night looked fucked, like it's taking its toll on him. That suggests to me that he thinks the result of far from certain.

 

I said much the same.

The blame for this imo, is twofold:

1.  The arrogance of the EU in giving us virtually bugger all concessions.

2.  The failure of the "Remain" vote to drill home some key realities.

 

That said, I am hopeful that a remain vote will carry the day after the latest set of polls.

Edited June 21, 2016 by Teddington

[Teddington]

1 hour ago, jimmillen said:

I know they're programmatic with no way to control what appears, but a little startled to see a Vote Leave ad pop up at the bottom of the screen just now... 

Why?

 

The Leave campaign has some very valid arguments and have as much right to advertise as Remain.  

 

 

[frostypaw]

4 minutes ago, Teddington said:

1.  The arrogance of the EU in giving us virtually bugger all concessions.

We do quite well, the trouble is in expecting a stream of new ones. Easy to be complacent and get people to ignore what they've enjoyed for a long time

[DeanoL]

49 minutes ago, Teddington said:

I said much the same.

The blame for this imo, is twofold:

1.  The arrogance of the EU in giving us virtually bugger all concessions.

I think the actual arrogance was us expecting more, given we already get far more than anyone else.

[efcfanwirral]

question for you all - i ended up going for a proxy vote right on the brink of missing it after stupidly misreading the postal vote deadline. Am I supposed to get a confirmation letter or is my proxy voter? I don't know if it arrived in time as I haven't heard either way. Anyone have any idea?

[Spindles]

5 hours ago, Teddington said:

Why?

 

The Leave campaign has some very valid arguments and have as much right to advertise as Remain.  

+1 to this.  Like yourself I'm in the remain camp, can see some positives that could come from leaving but long term think it is in the best interest of the country, Europe and the world that we stay.

[blackred]

53 minutes ago, efcfanwirral said:

question for you all - i ended up going for a proxy vote right on the brink of missing it after stupidly misreading the postal vote deadline. Am I supposed to get a confirmation letter or is my proxy voter? I don't know if it arrived in time as I haven't heard either way. Anyone have any idea?

My proxy voter got the forms, I wasn't notified of anything - good thing my proxy is my wife. Might be different in your area, have you been able to check with your proxy?

[Amy Lawn]

You know, it's a real shame this vote clashes with Glastonbury; we'll miss the rolling news coverage of Farage, Johnson and Gove getting a much deserved public humiliation when they lose. Could be the end of the whole horrible lot.

[LeeGalvin]

6 minutes ago, GETOFFAMYLAWN said:

You know, it's a real shame this vote clashes with Glastonbury; we'll miss the rolling news coverage of Farage, Johnson and Gove getting a much deserved public humiliation when they lose. Could be the end of the whole horrible lot.

Oh I really hope that's the case. I can't bear the thought of them winning this.

[SophieBee]

5 minutes ago, GETOFFAMYLAWN said:

You know, it's a real shame this vote clashes with Glastonbury; we'll miss the rolling news coverage of Farage, Johnson and Gove getting a much deserved public humiliation when they lose. Could be the end of the whole horrible lot.

Oh please let this happen. Might record rolling news instead of BBC Glastonbury coverage in case! Bit depressed after watching the debate, but read that Gove has said he'll leave government if we vote to remain. If that doesn't convince the fence-sitters I don't know what will!