Football 16-17

[eFestivals]

well, last night was dreadful.

For me, Southgate fucked up with his tactics. We were over-run in the middle, while wing forwards and wing backs stood idle on the wings. I was thinking "Walcott's barely getting a touch", but later realised Lingard was on the field too and getting even fewer touches.

[pink_triangle]

7 hours ago, TheGayTent said:

 

Great football teams, have a choice of captains, and therefore it matters little which one they choose. Poor football teams, (England currently) struggle to name one. 

However great football teams go through peaks and troughs. I listen to and read quite a bit about international football and everything has always suggested that other nations (whether winners, losers, or somewhere in the middle) don't obsess over the captaincy. Some nations just automatically give it to the player with tthe most caps.

My belief is that if England start winning things with a tteam full of leaders, the obsession with captaincy will remain.

[pink_triangle]

10 minutes ago, eFestivals said:

Rooney's own track record is poor in tournaments, and other strikers only get a track record if they get the same opportunity as Rooney has had but done poorly with.

That's the point to me, really. Rooney has been shown as not that great. I'm happy to concede that might be how it goes with others too, but we never find out if they don't get the chance, and if they get the chance, who knows, they might do better.

I think that's reflected in the fact that others were taken as well. Teams that are successful are generally fairly experienced and have an average age aporosvgijy 30.

[TheGayTent]

15 minutes ago, pink_triangle said:

My belief is that if England start winning things

[TheGayTent]

1 hour ago, eFestivals said:

well, last night was dreadful.

For me, Southgate fucked up with his tactics. We were over-run in the middle, while wing forwards and wing backs stood idle on the wings. I was thinking "Walcott's barely getting a touch", but later realised Lingard was on the field too and getting even fewer touches.

Walcott spent most of his time giving the ball away, one of the worst players on the night alongside Henderson. The best two? Hart and Rose. 

[eFestivals]

16 minutes ago, TheGayTent said:

Walcott spent most of his time giving the ball away, one of the worst players on the night alongside Henderson. The best two? Hart and Rose. 

there was little that deserved complements last night, and you've definitely settled on the best two.

I'm not sure Walcott deserves singling out for giving the ball away, it was happening all over the field. And unlike others on the pitch, Walcott actually went hunting for the ball and cared about his defensive duties too.

I can't say I noticed Henderson as particularly bad compared to others either, tho i'm not sure I saw anything good from him (while there was just-occasionally from a few others).

The tactics were just wrong. We were over-run in the middle.

Edited October 12, 2016 by eFestivals

[TheGayTent]

12 minutes ago, eFestivals said:

The tactics were just wrong. We were over-run in the middle.

You think 4-3-2-1 would have been a better option than 4-2-3-1? 

[eFestivals]

20 minutes ago, TheGayTent said:

You think 4-3-2-1 would have been a better option than 4-2-3-1? 

I think 4-4-2 or 4-5-1 would have been better than either.

The reason they got thru the middle was that there was no one there because there were always at least 3 players wide doing fuck-all and barely getting a touch.

Because they did it all match it's clear that's how they'd been told to play, but it just didn't work.

[mjsell]

Yeah it was the exact middle of the pitch where we struggled. Henderson and Dier were too close to Stones and Cahill and Alli was too close to Sturridge - leaving a gaping hole (one that could, but wasnt filled by either wide player)- this led to us giving the ball away far too many times from the back.

I think Alli should be given a bit of a break for last night considering he was the only player that had any form of fluid movement and was trying to get on the ball as much as possible - just nothing really came off for him. I cant stand Sturridge though - think he offers so little.

[mrtourette]

18 hours ago, pink_triangle said:

I have never understood why England are so obsessed with the captaincy. I couldn't care less who the Wales captain is and from what I have read most other nations think the same. I can understand why the player would want it, as its a lucrative gig, but don't understand why anyone else carers.

There needs to be someone to instill that THREE LIONS SPIRIT, the PASSION and DETERMINATION that are the only things standing between England ans world domination. Remember that time terry Butcher got his head cut and had to wear that bandage? THAT'S WHAT WE NEED.

Seriously though TheGayTent is right in echoing what Southgate said, the captain's importance is diminished if the team is full of experienced players able to take control of a match, bring calm and focus to those around them or bring young players along. I don't think the England team has that now, there isn't even a settled starting eleven able to give the stability for those kinds of characters to come to the fore. The lack of experience, stability and natural leaders in the team might explain the obsession with the role.

Or it just could be because Rooney is the current captain. Take him out of the equation and with no natural successor I think you'll find fewer people care.

Edited October 12, 2016 by mrtourette

[mrtourette]

7 hours ago, pink_triangle said:

However great football teams go through peaks and troughs. I listen to and read quite a bit about international football and everything has always suggested that other nations (whether winners, losers, or somewhere in the middle) don't obsess over the captaincy. Some nations just automatically give it to the player with tthe most caps.

My belief is that if England start winning things with a tteam full of leaders, the obsession with captaincy will remain.

I think as with all discussions about the England national team you need to be clear with what you mean about 'England'; a lot of the obsession you mention comes from the media, whereas the fans really couldn't give a shit. Why do the English media fixate over the captain? No idea, probably the same reason they insist Gareth Bale is moving to Man Utd every five minutes.

Look at about 10 years ago when England had a relatively stable line-up, if they had been successful I doubt anyone would have given a shit if Terry, Ferdinand, Cole, Lampard, Gerrard or David fucking James had been the captain, whether they rotated it every match, gave it to the player with the most caps or drew names out of a hat.

[LJS]

Never mind, England v. Scotland next. What a feast of scintillating football that promises to be.

 

[eFestivals]

18 minutes ago, LJS said:

Never mind, England v. Scotland next. What a feast of scintillating football that promises to be.

 

finally a team England stand a chance of scoring against.

[eFestivals]

PS: no nicking the goalposts this time.

 

[LJS]

12 minutes ago, eFestivals said:

PS: no nicking the goalposts this time.

 

I doubt we'll be able to find them!

[WS_Jack_III]

Derby have given Steve McClaren the job again. Hahaha

[eastynh]

On 11/10/2016 at 10:04 AM, eFestivals said:

Rooney gets dropped for Utd and England within a few weeks of each other.

The only question that needs asking is: why wasn't it done 5+ years ago.

 

Because he was playing for United. Same reason Kieran Richardson once played and why Lingard attempted to play yesterday,

[Comfy Bean]

4 hours ago, eFestivals said:

finally a team England stand a chance of scoring against.

Agreed. The 3 goals we lost last night were all horrendous in their own way.

[Comfy Bean]

4 hours ago, LJS said:

I doubt we'll be able to find them!

Can't defend and don't look like scoring. It's a shite state of affairs plus i still don't have a ticket.

After last night's efforts, it's maybe the game both teams need. Big atmosphere and all that matters is grinding out a win.

[eFestivals]

10 hours ago, eastynh said:

Because he was playing for United. Same reason Kieran Richardson once played and why Lingard attempted to play yesterday,

I'd normally agree with that take when a Man Utd player (or player from any 'big' team) makes the England squad, but to try to be fair in this case, I'd say it's because Southgate has been particularly impressed with him when working with him in the u-21s.

If Southgate was going by OT willy-waving it would surely have been Rashford and not Lingard who'd have got that place.

[big__phil]

Thank fuck the international break is over. Back to the proper stuff, and some very nice looking games on this weekend.

Chelsea Leicester should hopefully be a decent match. Kante hattrick anyone? Thought not.

Arsenal have lost to Swansea at home 3 out of the last 4 times we've played them apparently. Bonkers.

B'mouth v Hull could be an important game by the end of the season, as could Stoke v Sunderland.

Chadli to score against Spurs would be hilarious.

Predictions?

[kaosmark2]

On 12/10/2016 at 5:42 PM, WS_Jack_III said:

Derby have given Steve McClaren the job again. Hahaha

Crazy. He gets sacked by them, goes to Newcastle and does a fucking awful job, then they rehire him!

[WS_Jack_III]

10 hours ago, kaosmark2 said:

Crazy. He gets sacked by them, goes to Newcastle and does a fucking awful job, then they rehire him!

Hope he pays his agent a good amount.

[mjsell]

22 hours ago, big__phil said:

Thank fuck the international break is over. Back to the proper stuff, and some very nice looking games on this weekend.

Chelsea Leicester should hopefully be a decent match. Kante hattrick anyone? Thought not.

Arsenal have lost to Swansea at home 3 out of the last 4 times we've played them apparently. Bonkers.

B'mouth v Hull could be an important game by the end of the season, as could Stoke v Sunderland.

Chadli to score against Spurs would be hilarious.

Predictions?

Chelsea v Leicester - Draw

Arsenal v Swansea - Home

Bournemouth v Hull - Home

City v Everton - Home

Stoke v Sunderland - Home

West Brom v Spurs - Away

Palace v West Ham - Draw

Boro v Watford - Away

Southampton v Burnley - Home

Liverpool v United - Home

[eFestivals]

1 hour ago, mjsell said:

Liverpool v United - Parked Bus

corrected for you.