kaosmark2 Posted July 13, 2016 Author Report Share Posted July 13, 2016 Better to take a gamble than take a sure fuckup. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eFestivals Posted July 13, 2016 Report Share Posted July 13, 2016 6 minutes ago, The Nal said: So is it a case of appointing one of the longest serving club managers? Just because they've been knocking around for a bit? Greenwood, Robson, Taylor, El Tel, Shteve, Woy etc? the general rule over the ages has been to point the most senior <criteria> English manager. The criteria bit is a mix of experience, success, respect in the game, and respect within the FA. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eFestivals Posted July 13, 2016 Report Share Posted July 13, 2016 8 minutes ago, TheGayTent said: Allardyce has spent 25 years proving he's a loser. Proving he's a bung taking, negative, hoofball dinosaur. while I don't particularly disagree with that, he's also proved he's got what it takes to get better out of a squad than others might do, too. Within the levels he's worked at, he's been more-than reasonable with what he's achieved. 8 minutes ago, TheGayTent said: Howe, might be dreadful, he might be the next Carlo Ancelotti. And if he is let B'mouth get that benefit first and England can have him in a few more years. Everyone's a winner. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eFestivals Posted July 13, 2016 Report Share Posted July 13, 2016 5 minutes ago, kaosmark2 said: Better to take a gamble than take a sure fuckup. Woy was a safe pair of hands that wouldn't fuck it up. He was still that after coming back from brazil where he'd fucked it up. And then he fucked it up again. So maybe, just maybe, the one who some think will fuck it up will be the one that won't. Let's face it: the foreign choices of 'experts' both in the game and out of it haven't worked out particularly well, so whatr difference is it likely to make, really? Under Sam we might lose to someone worse than Iceland...? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheGayTent Posted July 13, 2016 Report Share Posted July 13, 2016 Just now, eFestivals said: while I don't particularly disagree with that, he's also proved he's got what it takes to get better out of a squad than others might do, too. Within the levels he's worked at, he's been more-than reasonable with what he's achieved. And if he is let B'mouth get that benefit first and England can have him in a few more years. Everyone's a winner. I don't think he's proved anything of the sort. Discounting the Third Division title, he's won fuck all in 25 years. An extremely arrogant view - if Howe goes on to have the success Ancelotti did, England might well have missed their opportunity. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eFestivals Posted July 13, 2016 Report Share Posted July 13, 2016 Just now, TheGayTent said: I don't think he's proved anything of the sort. he didn't save S'land last season, much to the disappointment of your own predictions...? It's not world beating, but neither are S'land. And he's been similarly solid at his other clubs. 2 minutes ago, TheGayTent said: An extremely arrogant view - if Howe goes on to have the success Ancelotti did, England might well have missed their opportunity. no more or less arrogant than you raising a possibility based in nothing at all as a counter argument. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nobody Interesting Posted July 13, 2016 Report Share Posted July 13, 2016 England keep going to the top managers available and keep failing. Maybe it is time to try something different. The players know how to play and could manage without constant tactical changes (maybe!). So what we seem to be missing is passion and grit. I am not a fan of his but why not ask David Beckham if he fancies a coaching role, at least we would get some passion and who knows, it might just work. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheGayTent Posted July 13, 2016 Report Share Posted July 13, 2016 6 minutes ago, eFestivals said: he didn't save S'land last season, much to the disappointment of your own predictions...? It's not world beating, but neither are S'land. And he's been similarly solid at his other clubs. no more or less arrogant than you raising a possibility based in nothing at all as a counter argument. He's never won anything at any decent level. Di Canio and Advocaat saved Sunderland from relegation - shall we offer them the England job too off the back of their amazing achievements....? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheGayTent Posted July 13, 2016 Report Share Posted July 13, 2016 4 minutes ago, Nobody Interesting said: England keep going to the top managers available and keep failing. Maybe it is time to try something different. The players know how to play and could manage without constant tactical changes (maybe!). So what we seem to be missing is passion and grit. I am not a fan of his but why not ask David Beckham if he fancies a coaching role, at least we would get some passion and who knows, it might just work. Congratulations, I didn't think it possible, but I'm suddenly in favour of Allardyce... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nobody Interesting Posted July 13, 2016 Report Share Posted July 13, 2016 3 minutes ago, TheGayTent said: Congratulations, I didn't think it possible, but I'm suddenly in favour of Allardyce... Allardyce and all others 'available' will do nothing better that Roy did and we will just womble on failing at every turn like we have for years. All I am saying is maybe we need to change how the job is done and have a coach in someone like Beckham working alongside a 'manager' of sorts. Portugal needed passion and as soon as Ronaldo started shouting from the touchline you could see their heads go back up and the passion got them over the line. It might all fail for England if we try something new but in my opinion the last 50 years proves that carrying on the same road will get us nowhere. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eFestivals Posted July 13, 2016 Report Share Posted July 13, 2016 7 minutes ago, TheGayTent said: He's never won anything at any decent level. Di Canio and Advocaat saved Sunderland from relegation - shall we offer them the England job too off the back of their amazing achievements....? None of the other possibles have ever won anything at any decent level, either. Sam has a proven consistency, and that's a standard none of the others can reach. He might be shit, but no one is able to beat his shitness. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eFestivals Posted July 13, 2016 Report Share Posted July 13, 2016 9 minutes ago, TheGayTent said: Congratulations, I didn't think it possible, but I'm suddenly in favour of Allardyce... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheGayTent Posted July 13, 2016 Report Share Posted July 13, 2016 Beckham has no coaching badges and no managerial experience. Yet you're advocating offering him the England job? Wow. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheGayTent Posted July 13, 2016 Report Share Posted July 13, 2016 2 minutes ago, eFestivals said: None of the other possibles have ever won anything at any decent level, either. Sam has a proven consistency, and that's a standard none of the others can reach. He might be shit, but no one is able to beat his shitness. One is 38 and not won anything. Another is 61 and not won anything. Which one do you think is more likely to be successful in the future than the other? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nobody Interesting Posted July 13, 2016 Report Share Posted July 13, 2016 (edited) 10 minutes ago, TheGayTent said: Beckham has no coaching badges and no managerial experience. Yet you're advocating offering him the England job? Wow. Try reading what I posted again...... a job as a coach and not the whole managers job, one of two, or maybe even more. Look at what Germany did a few years ago when they bought in Klinsman who had no experience and started to build a team around him (have a look who his assistant manager was). Now look at where Germany are now. Look at where England were then and now as well. Part of a team! Now given that how about having a think about it again Edited July 13, 2016 by Nobody Interesting Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eFestivals Posted July 13, 2016 Report Share Posted July 13, 2016 2 minutes ago, TheGayTent said: One is 38 and not won anything. Another is 61 and not won anything. Which one do you think is more likely to be successful in the future than the other? it depends purely on the opportunities either are offered. Howe isn't going to win the league with B'mouth any more than Sam is with S'land. Howe fucked up his last appointment. Sam didn't. Etc, etc. I don't think disliking Sam is a good enough reason to exclude him particularly in light of the not-great standards that the lauded have achieved, and when no one (English) outscores him with experience and relative-success I think it's right he gets the job. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eFestivals Posted July 13, 2016 Report Share Posted July 13, 2016 6 minutes ago, Nobody Interesting said: Try reading what I posted again...... a job as a coach and not the whole managers job, one of two, or maybe even more. Look at what Germany did a few years ago when they bought in Klinsman who had no experience and started to build a team around him (have a look who his assistant manager was). Now look at where Germany are now. Look at where England were then and now as well. Part of a team! Now given that how about having a think about it again Klinsman is regarded as an intellectual in the football world, Beckham is .. erm .. welll ... David Beckham. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eFestivals Posted July 13, 2016 Report Share Posted July 13, 2016 3 minutes ago, eFestivals said: I don't think disliking Sam is a good enough reason to exclude him particularly in light of the not-great standards that the lauded have achieved, and when no one (English) outscores him with experience and relative-success I think it's right he gets the job. there is ole saggy face still, I suppose. Of the two, I'd definitely prefer it went to Sam. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheGayTent Posted July 13, 2016 Report Share Posted July 13, 2016 3 minutes ago, Nobody Interesting said: Try reading what I posted again...... a job as a coach and not the whole managers job, one of two, or maybe even more. Look at what Germany did a few years ago when they bought in Klinsman who had no experience and started to build a team around him. Now look at where Germany are now. Look at where England were then and now as well. Part of a team! Now given that how about having a think about it again Oh I read it thanks. You're advocating giving a coaching role of the national team to a man who does not have any coaching badges. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nobody Interesting Posted July 13, 2016 Report Share Posted July 13, 2016 (edited) 7 minutes ago, eFestivals said: Klinsman is regarded as an intellectual in the football world, Beckham is .. erm .. welll ... David Beckham. Not saying he is able to do it on his own at all (though for someone who is allegedly 'not that bright' he has done pretty damn well for himself). Maybe Allerdyce could have Beckham as 'Passion' coach or something . One thing is for sure though, if we just keep on going down the same road that we have ever since Sir Alf left then we will be singing 100 years of hurt in 2066. Edited July 13, 2016 by Nobody Interesting Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kaosmark2 Posted July 13, 2016 Author Report Share Posted July 13, 2016 43 minutes ago, eFestivals said: Woy was a safe pair of hands that wouldn't fuck it up. He was still that after coming back from brazil where he'd fucked it up. And then he fucked it up again. So maybe, just maybe, the one who some think will fuck it up will be the one that won't. Let's face it: the foreign choices of 'experts' both in the game and out of it haven't worked out particularly well, so whatr difference is it likely to make, really? Under Sam we might lose to someone worse than Iceland...? We could do that under anyone. I'd prefer to gamble and possibly get something exciting along with the failure. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheGayTent Posted July 13, 2016 Report Share Posted July 13, 2016 7 minutes ago, eFestivals said: it depends purely on the opportunities either are offered. Allardyce has 25 years of proof he won't succeed. Howe might not succeed either but we're not as sure about him... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nobody Interesting Posted July 13, 2016 Report Share Posted July 13, 2016 1 minute ago, kaosmark2 said: I'd prefer to gamble and possibly get something exciting along with the failure. I second that emotion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mjsell Posted July 13, 2016 Report Share Posted July 13, 2016 I'm completely behind Alladyce getting the job but only on the basis that he gets to do it his way, and doesn't have to bend to the wishes of the FA. If he wants to play 'industrial' football then let him, if he wants to pick a squad of players that suit his philosophy then let him, and then you can judge him on that. If the plan is to just put the most senior English manager in the job and force criteria upon him then it's a waste of time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eFestivals Posted July 13, 2016 Report Share Posted July 13, 2016 20 minutes ago, mjsell said: I'm completely behind Alladyce getting the job but only on the basis that he gets to do it his way, and doesn't have to bend to the wishes of the FA. If he wants to play 'industrial' football then let him, if he wants to pick a squad of players that suit his philosophy then let him, and then you can judge him on that. If the plan is to just put the most senior English manager in the job and force criteria upon him then it's a waste of time. yeah, I agree. Let Sam do it Sam's way, and if he fails he fails. Now, just imagine if he lived up to those famous self-claims Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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