US Presidential Election 2016

[pink_triangle]

36 minutes ago, zahidf said:

i guess if he turns out to be wrong, he wont have any negative consequences not being a woman or a minority, so win win really!

I think you could vote for either option and regret it at a later date.  You completely ignore the negatives about Clinton, its not as if the mass rejected the angelic left winger for the evil right wing bigot.  These were 2 incredibly flawed candidates and people had to make a choice

[eFestivals]

24 minutes ago, michael eavis' beard said:

Wasn't supporting the apocalypse idea - but the idea that this is not likely to be just another Republican presidency.

That standard Republican stuff is likely to include increasing voter ID laws, revisiting abortion rights, gay marriage, gays in the military, relaxing gun laws, health care, tax cuts for the wealthy etc.  This stuff is now supported by all branches of government in America.

not sure the gay stuff is going to be part of it. That's a settled and lost argument, I'd say.

Even stuff like relaxing the guns laws I'm not so sure about, despite Ted Nugent being Trump's sidekick. Most americans think the gun laws are too lax already, providing they have access to a gun if they want one. I can't see 'walk into a shop and buy a gun unchallenged' being a big mover, as that's what a relaxation would be.

There's plenty of nutters in all corners, but they don't necessarily all join together over a single cause. Part of why Trump won was because he threw insults in all directions rather than just a few targets, which allowed people to ignore the bits they didn't like to get behind the bits they did and so to support him. It doesn't work the same way when you're not playing to the massive crowd, and have to consentrate on the detail of a single issue.

Edited November 9, 2016 by eFestivals

[pink_triangle]

21 minutes ago, michael eavis' beard said:

Wasn't supporting the apocalypse idea - but the idea that this is not likely to be just another Republican presidency.

That standard Republican stuff is likely to include increasing voter ID laws, revisiting abortion rights, gay marriage, gays in the military, relaxing gun laws, health care, tax cuts for the wealthy etc.  This stuff is now supported by all branches of government in America.

Although you also have the dynamic of a president who was not supported (and in some case rejected) by the bulk of congress. You have a republican president who has previously voted democrat and is conisdered not conservative enough by many in his party.

Of course republicans may try and do things that we disagree with, but thats democracy.  Democrats are in the position where they can filibuster a lot of legislation and it should also be noted that not all republicans are rabid right wingers as some may portray. 

[feral chile]

neil, let this be a lesson to you when you make your bid for power - calling people stupid or deplorable loses you votes.

[Lad]

Surprisingly considered reaction on here.Thought there would be a total liberal meltdown.To be disappointed is fair enough.Not surprised by the weirdness from the resident shitehawk. Sinister racist him.Although he chats some pony at least the ringmaster has put him in his place a bit. Too many give this biff a free pass.He's more bigoted than Trump.

[GodlikeYeezus]

Blame Hilary not the American's for whats happened. It's always been her intention to run against Trump because he was a selected 'Pied Piper' candidate(easy opposition)  and she still lost. She was exposed and now the American people have to deal with the consequences of her manipulation. Disgraceful.

[The Nal]

Anyone remember this? I remember it well and remember Trumps "Just you wait" face too. From 3.08.

Never thought anything would come of it obviously. 

 

Edited November 9, 2016 by The Nal

[lost]

7 minutes ago, The Nal said:

Anyone remember this? I remember it well and remember Trumps "Just you wait" face too. From 3.08.

 

Yep George Clooney's comments also sprung to mind this morning

Edited November 9, 2016 by lost

[michael eavis' beard]

9 minutes ago, eFestivals said:

not sure the gay stuff is going to be part of it. That's a settled and lost argument, I'd say.

Even stuff like relaxing the guns laws I'm not so sure about, despite Ted Nugent being Trump's sidekick. Most americans think the gun laws are too lax already, providing they have access to a gun if they want one. I can't see 'walk into a shop and buy a gun unchallenged' being a big mover, as that's what a relaxation would be.

There's plenty of nutters in all corners, but they don't necessarily all join together over a single cause. Part of why Trump won was because he threw insults in all directions rather than just a few targets, which allowed people to ignore the bits they didn't like to get behind the bits they did and so to support him. It doesn't work the same way when you're not playing to the massive crowd, and have to consentrate on the detail of a single issue.

Relaxing gun laws was probably the wrong term but sensible gun control that the majority of Americans support won't go ahead now.

Think a lot will depend on how he approaches the Presidency.  There are some suggestions to say that he'll just be a (very bad) figurehead and leave the politics to others as he has zero experience.  Pence has supported bans on same sex marriage and abortion and thinks climate change is make believe.  These have become pillars of the Republican party at all levels.

[Wooderson]

1 hour ago, The Nal said:

He said he wouldn't even acknowledge the win! Never mind make a speech.

I thought Hillary "went high" though? Sending her staff out there to tell everyone to go home. 

Chief she is a human being. What the fuck is your problem.

[The Nal]

23 minutes ago, Wooderson said:

Chief she is a human being. What the fuck is your problem.

Her! And the Democratic Party in general. Bollixed it up. 

Edited November 9, 2016 by The Nal

[zahidf]

How a lot of minorities feel right now in the USA

http://edition.cnn.com/videos/politics/2016/11/09/van-jones-emotional-election-results-sot.cnn

[Wooderson]

Yeh, blame the people that lost rather than the sociopaths that just won. Mature.

[Lad]

6 minutes ago, Wooderson said:

Yeh, blame the people that lost rather than the sociopaths that just won. Mature.

Any particular sociopath in mind? Plenty to choose from in US politics.

[eFestivals]

1 hour ago, feral chile said:

neil, let this be a lesson to you when you make your bid for power - calling people stupid or deplorable loses you votes.

some people can't handle the truth.

It even became 'official' in Scotland during indyref1, with Salmond saying that each time Westminster tells them to get real they''ll get more stupid ... so it's not even a secret thing.

They'll be no bid for power from me, because the electorate are too fucking stupid.

[Wooderson]

Just now, Lad said:

Any particular sociopath in mind? Plenty to choose from in US politics.

These loons come to mind.

[Wooderson]

Fuck it let Kanye West run against him in 2020. 

[eFestivals]

58 minutes ago, michael eavis' beard said:

Relaxing gun laws was probably the wrong term but sensible gun control that the majority of Americans support won't go ahead now.

Do they support it? I'm not sure.

I know they support it as an ideal-world principle, but I was also under the impression that their view is that it's not an ideal world. When america is awash with guns and every crim has a gun, they tend to think they should have one too.

[eFestivals]

20 minutes ago, zahidf said:

How a lot of minorities feel right now in the USA

http://edition.cnn.com/videos/politics/2016/11/09/van-jones-emotional-election-results-sot.cnn

and you feel that 52% of people in Britain are racists.

Just as with you, what they feel is not necessarily related to any actuality.

It';s not just the likes of Trump or the raving-right that's deluded.

[eFestivals]

16 minutes ago, Wooderson said:

Yeh, blame the people that lost rather than the sociopaths that just won. Mature.

In this case I don't think it's unreasonable. It's the choices both sides made that led to the result.

I only started to take an interest in the US election a few months ago, but I was aware within the 1st minute just how hated Clinton is by very many, including a significant chunk of solid Democrat voters. Plenty of them were saying they'd have to hold their nose and vote, or wouldn't vote, or would vote for an alternative candidate - including Trump. That can't have passed the Democrat bigwigs by, surely...?

When you start with an uphill battle, at the very least you're making things more difficult for yourself.

(ps: the same-style rejection can be seen around Corbyn, for anyone that's missed it).

[Lad]

22 minutes ago, Wooderson said:

Yeh, blame the people that lost rather than the sociopaths that just won. 

15 minutes ago, Wooderson said:

These loons come to mind.

Eer very scary that. Are they going to lash bricks down on the traffic?it's scary when you see a load of kids on those bridges.

[feral chile]

2 minutes ago, eFestivals said:

In this case I don't think it's unreasonable. It's the choices both sides made that led to the result.

I only started to take an interest in the US election a few months ago, but I was aware within the 1st minute just how hated Clinton is by very many, including a significant chunk of solid Democrat voters. Plenty of them were saying they'd have to hold their nose and vote, or wouldn't vote, or would vote for an alternative candidate - including Trump. That can't have passed the Democrat bigwigs by, surely...?

When you start with an uphill battle, at the very least you're making things more difficult for yourself.

(ps: the same-style rejection can be seen around Corbyn, for anyone that's missed it).

That was the first thing that sprang to my mind when I read Wooderson's comment.

[The Nal]

31 minutes ago, Wooderson said:

Yeh, blame the people that lost rather than the sociopaths that just won. Mature.

This isn't a children art competition. They raised $700m to run. Of public money. From all walks of life, Super PACs, Joe 6 pack, poor people who donated what they could. 16% of donations were under $200. They're accountable. Shes accountable. They're partially to blame. They lost an election - lost badly - to the worst candidate of all time. 

Best article I've read so far today on the whole thing. 

[michael eavis' beard]

9 minutes ago, eFestivals said:

Do they support it? I'm not sure.

I know they support it as an ideal-world principle, but I was also under the impression that their view is that it's not an ideal world. When america is awash with guns and every crim has a gun, they tend to think they should have one too.

There was huge support for the changes proposed after the shootings at Newtown - universal background checks, assault weapon ban etc.  Can't remember exactly but think it was something like 2/3 - 3/4 of the public supported it.  All the bills failed to pass the Republican controlled House and Senate.

It's understandable that some people may want a gun purely as self defense from the bad guys with the guns.  But "the only thing that stops a bad guy with a gun is a good guy with a gun" was the line trotted out by the NRA straight after that shooting as advocacy for having more guns in primary schools which is a truly terrifying prospect!

[pink_triangle]

1 hour ago, michael eavis' beard said:

Relaxing gun laws was probably the wrong term but sensible gun control that the majority of Americans support won't go ahead now.

Think a lot will depend on how he approaches the Presidency.  There are some suggestions to say that he'll just be a (very bad) figurehead and leave the politics to others as he has zero experience.  Pence has supported bans on same sex marriage and abortion and thinks climate change is make believe.  These have become pillars of the Republican party at all levels.

I don't think trump cares about gay marriage and am fairly confident he won't look to ban it. As for gun control, it wouldn't have made a difference if Hillary won, there's no way the house would have allowed it.

While I'm disappointed Trump won. At least it's not Ted Cruz!