US Presidential Election 2016

[LJS]

Just a couple of quick observations on what has been one of the best day's debating I've read on eFests with lots of good points made on all sides.

I haven't posted as I've been busy & don't follow US politics closely.

I find it somewhat troubling that we seem to be relying on the hope that Trump won't/can't deliver on some of his more offensive promises. 

Whilst it is of course silly to say that everyone who voted for Trump is racist and misogynist, it is still surely deeply worrying that his racist & misogynist policies we're not sufficiently offensive to deter many more people from voting for him.

Whilst Hilary may have been the wrong candidate for 2016 and may have run the wrong campaign for 2016, this should not be any excuse for anyone with any common decency voting for a reptile like Trump. it's an issue the democratic party desperately needs to address but must not be allowed to let Trump of the hook for the disgusting & amoral campaign he ran.

Whilst the fact that Clinton got more votes than Trump may seem to be a bit of a technicality, it is important to bear it in mind before we portray all Americans as dumb racist bigots. 

The best hope for the USA & the world is that Trump has no appetite for the detail of the day to day business of government & leaves it to more experienced & pragmatic people to run the country while he concentrates on the photo opportunities & soundbites.

Whilst it would generally be wise to treat the conciliatory tone of Trump's acceptance speech with scepticism (check out Thatcher's acceptance speech if you are too young to remember it) it will be interesting to see how much pressure he comes under to prosecute Clinton & sue the women who besmirched his otherwise untarnished reputation.

I'd like to congratulate everyone on here for ignoring Neil's efforts to pull his favourite betes noire (Corbyn & Sturgeon) into this debate.

p.s. a question: what happens to Trump's business interests? is he still allowed to run them while being president?

 

 

 

[LJS]

Here's a view which suggests why Trump won't deliver on most of his promises ...but there's a sting in the tail.

http://newsnet.scot/archive/hail-chief-great-puddin-race/

[LJS]

Those looking for reasons why the vote went the way it did may find this useful...

http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2016/11/08/us/politics/election-exit-polls.html

 

There's lots & lots of numbers here. I'd pick out a couple but would not claim them as conclusive.

The notion that the disillusioned poor we're behind the Trump victory is nog borne out by these figures.

It looks like  majority of Clinton voters we're positively voting for Hilary while the majority of Trump voters were negatively voting against Clinton.

 

 

 

[philipsteak]

1 hour ago, LJS said:

 

p.s. a question: what happens to Trump's business interests? is he still allowed to run them while being president?

 

 

 

Technically, yes he is, although traditionally they would be put into a blind trust to avoid conflict of interest.

Trump however has said that his kids are going to run them

 

[zahidf]

 

[The Nal]

8 hours ago, zahidf said:

 

Source? Link? 

[eFestivals]

8 hours ago, zahidf said:

 

If it's true it's very sad.

But perhaps it's stuff like you're saying which has led them to it, because they're thinking everyone is suddenly a c**t, just as you're saying?

If Trumps words have the effect you claim, then your own words do too.

 

[eFestivals]

5 minutes ago, The Nal said:

Source? Link? 

just searched the Guardian, can't find any mention of it.

It seems it's not just Trumpers who might fall for bullshit. 

[michael eavis' beard]

9 minutes ago, The Nal said:

Source? Link? 

 

3 minutes ago, eFestivals said:

just searched the Guardian, can't find any mention of it.

It seems it's not just Trumpers who might fall for bullshit. 

Think it came from comments made on Trans support groups on Facebook and Twitter.

[eFestivals]

8 minutes ago, michael eavis' beard said:

 

Think it came from comments made on Trans support groups on Facebook and Twitter.

the tweet credits The Guardian.

A search on 'suicide' at The Guardian returns nothing that matches that i could find.

Meanwhile, do posts on Facebook equal the truth nowadays? When those that call Trump dangerous give a facebook post as their source for why they're not showing themselves as any different than Trump/

 

[feral chile]

11 minutes ago, michael eavis' beard said:

 

Think it came from comments made on Trans support groups on Facebook and Twitter.

yes, I've found references to it on social media, but not confirmation.

[The Nal]

4 minutes ago, eFestivals said:

the tweet credits The Guardian.

A search on 'suicide' at The Guardian returns nothing that matches that i could find.

Meanwhile, do posts on Facebook equal the truth nowadays? When those that call Trump dangerous give a facebook post as their source for why they're not showing themselves as any different than Trump/

 

If it suits peoples agenda any unchecked source is the truth yeah. 

[feral chile]

How come search results show for 'transgender suicides' but as soon as I add trump, I get a warning about having to change my search filters to allow adult content?

[The Nal]

1 minute ago, feral chile said:

How come search results show for 'transgender suicides' but as soon as I add trump, I get a warning about having to change my search filters to allow adult content?

Probably the pussy grabbing thing. The X Rated POTUS. 

[zahidf]

13 minutes ago, feral chile said:

yes, I've found references to it on social media, but not confirmation.

Ah fair enough then if ive mis-posted a false fact. Was a retweet from a normally reliable source.

 

I suspect its more because Pence is in a position of more power  he is anti-trans, as per him being responsible for the bathroom bans from earlier this year.

They have reason to be scared. But hey, who cares about them, when 'economically anxious' people want tax cuts?

[feral chile]

2 minutes ago, zahidf said:

Ah fair enough then if ive mis-posted a false fact. Was a retweet from a normally reliable source.

 

I suspect its more because Pence is in a position of more power  he is anti-trans, as per him being responsible for the bathroom bans from earlier this year.

They have reason to be scared. But hey, who cares about them, when 'economically anxious' people want tax cuts?

I sincerely hope this hasn't happened. I'm still hoping that Trump will be kept in check now that he's where he wants to be, and some of his ridiculous pledges were just hot air.

it is scary that so many people voted for someone spouting such hate filled crap. I think these people must be very angry and socially alienated to fall for it.

And I think you were quite right to draw parallels where you did, not as a prediction 9hopefully0 of where it will lead, but certainly, to how any socially alienated person is vulnerable to exploitation or radicalisation by someone with an agenda.

Unfortunately, it's only the left who's seen as a threat, and this has allowed recent events to catch people by surprise.

[eFestivals]

10 minutes ago, zahidf said:

They have reason to be scared. But hey, who cares about them, when 'economically anxious' people want tax cuts?

so trans have a legitimate worry, but the 'financially anxious' don't?

Have you ever stopped to wonder why people are deserting 'the left' and empowering the likes of Trump?

[eFestivals]

5 minutes ago, feral chile said:

I sincerely hope this hasn't happened

Even if it has, is it Trump who's responsible?

Firstly, it's not him that carried out that death action.

And secondly, while Trump's election might have contributed to their state of mind, it's absolutely massively likely that it wasn't the major cause. Stable rational people don't commit suicide just because someone they might fear gets elected.

 

[michael eavis' beard]

13 minutes ago, eFestivals said:

the tweet credits The Guardian.

A search on 'suicide' at The Guardian returns nothing that matches that i could find.

Meanwhile, do posts on Facebook equal the truth nowadays? When those that call Trump dangerous give a facebook post as their source for why they're not showing themselves as any different than Trump/

 

I never said it was true - I was merely pointing out where the original source appears to have come from as that was the question.

There isn't anything on The Guardian as that was the first place I checked too.  Maybe it's true, hopefully it's not, but I wouldn't pay too much attention to a Twitter account that claims to be a breaking news feed but spends half of it's time tweeting links to deals on food containers and mattress toppers!

[eFestivals]

9 minutes ago, feral chile said:

it is scary that so many people voted for someone spouting such hate filled crap.

it's no less scary that those who want to regard themselves as smarter keep on posting their own invented hate-filled crap.

Twice as much hate-filled crap doesn't get the world to any better place.

[eFestivals]

4 minutes ago, michael eavis' beard said:

I wouldn't pay too much attention to a Twitter account that claims to be a breaking news feed but spends half of it's time tweeting links to deals on food containers and mattress toppers!

but ... but ... but .... it's a legitimate source for proving just how evil and dangerous Trump is. He's going to murder all darkies and throw them into the sea, just as someone's saying.

Even when Trump is doing fuck all - and 'victims' are making victims of themselves - it's all Trump's doing.

Honest.

Edited November 10, 2016 by eFestivals

[zahidf]

7 minutes ago, eFestivals said:

so trans have a legitimate worry, but the 'financially anxious' don't?

Have you ever stopped to wonder why people are deserting 'the left' and empowering the likes of Trump?

The left has failed, but resorting to blaming the darkies wont help. Its not true and is divisive.

 

this is an eye opening thread

 

 

[feral chile]

1 minute ago, eFestivals said:

it's no less scary that those who want to regard themselves as smarter keep on posting their own invented hate-filled crap.

Twice as much hate-filled crap doesn't get the world to any better place.

I agree to an extent. I think there's a need to understand what's going on, rather than just labelling people.

But I also think we need to guard against haters winning hearts and minds because of anger and alienation.

[feral chile]

1 minute ago, zahidf said:

The left has failed, but resorting to blaming the darkies wont help. Its not true and is divisive.

 

this is an eye opening thread

 

 

Agreed, the enemy are those stirring up hatred and division within society.

why do their work for them?

[eFestivals]

12 minutes ago, zahidf said:

The left has failed, but resorting to blaming the darkies wont help. Its not true and is divisive.

 

this is an eye opening thread

 

 

But it's YOU that's making the biggest suggestion that there's blame for 'the darkies'.

YOU say the left has failed, and then go full steam ahead with the narrative that's failed them.

YOU are legitimising that angle, by calling it out before its happened. 

YOU are the boy crying wolf. When the wolf is in the room, no one will listen to you.

 

Edited November 10, 2016 by eFestivals