US Presidential Election 2016

[zahidf]

Told you so

 

 

[eFestivals]

22 minutes ago, zahidf said:

Because no president has ever been accused of not being born in the USA, and people accepted their word and the evidence presented.

It was different with Obama solely because of him being black.

Are you seriously telling me that Birthers were saying it for other reasons??? Come of it. 

Trumps poisionous campaign has being going on for months btw. Your start point of him being elected wont wash

Republicans went to the most extreme lengths to try and get Bill Clinton removed from office.

That'll be the Democratic President just prior to the one who you say has been singled out, in case that's passing you by..

They can only succeed in doing so for any reason which is against the rules. For Obama the only angle for that they could find was by disputing his place of birth.

Using place of birth as an argument around a president is not anything new with Obama. It was a big issue a decade or so before, around Arnie.

It's also been an issue for long enough for to to get written into the rules in the first place (I'm not sure when that happened, possibly at the start of the USA).

It's not newly invented issue for Obama, it's a newly invented way of targeting a president republicans' thought they had a chance of removing.

They wanted him removed and used place of birth to try and do so. That side of things isn't racist.

I'm quite happy to accept that racism was, with some, why they wanted him removed in the first place. But the birther thing is something different to that, it's just a made up 'fact' that was hoped to be used to remove him.

(for others who wanted him removed, it was about GOP thinking of themselves that they have the divine right to govern and no anyone else, which is a theme I've seen grow a fair bit over my lifetime)

[eFestivals]

 

13 minutes ago, LJS said:

The easy answer is to let the candidate with the most votes win.

what, like let the votes decide the issue in the defined territory, you mean?

Funny, cos you normally have a problem with that, and want a version that favours just you.

 

[zahidf]

1 minute ago, eFestivals said:

Republicans went to the most extreme lengths to try and get Bill Clinton removed from office.

That'll be the Democratic President just prior to the one who you say has been singled out, in case that's passing you by..

They can only succeed in doing so for any reason which is against the rules. For Obama the only angle for that they could find was by disputing his place of birth.

Using place of birth as an argument around a president is not anything new with Obama. It was a big issue a decade or so before, around Arnie.

It's also been an issue for long enough for to to get written into the rules in the first place (I'm not sure when that happened, possibly at the start of the USA).

It's not newly invented issue for Obama, it's a newly invented way of targeting a president republicans' thought they had a chance of removing.

They wanted him removed and used place of birth to try and do so. That side of things isn't racist.

I'm quite happy to accept that racism was, with some, why they wanted him removed in the first place. But the birther thing is something different to that, it's just a made up 'fact' that was hoped to be used to remove him.

(for others who wanted him removed, it was about GOP thinking of themselves that they have the divine right to govern and no anyone else, which is a theme I've seen grow a fair bit over my lifetime)

And they chose his place of birth because of the colour of his skin. 

I dont care about why they were using the colour of his skin to get rid of him.

[eFestivals]

16 minutes ago, zahidf said:

there wasnt a possibility of obama not being born in the USA. He was a US citizen! Birthers said the documentation was fake and he wasnt born in the USA because of him being black 

Arnie is a US Citizen. He wasn't born in the USA.

Are you saying that only black people might not have been born in the USA? Isn't that a teeny bit racist of you?

 

[eFestivals]

1 minute ago, zahidf said:

And they chose his place of birth because of the colour of his skin. 

I dont care about why they were using the colour of his skin to get rid of him.

They chose his place of birth because they felt there could be doubts about it.

His father was not American. It allows for the planting of a seed of doubt. 

[pink_triangle]

16 minutes ago, LJS said:

The easy answer is to let the candidate with the most votes win.

Although if Hillary had won the electoral college and lost the popular vote, would people be complaining? Its also possible in Britain for the party with the most votes to not get the most seats. I think theres pros and cons in using both the electoral college and the popular vote. If you went for popular vote the candidates would just end up camped out in New York, California, Texas etc instead of some of the smaller states. Would this give a better outcome, who knows?

[pink_triangle]

18 minutes ago, zahidf said:

There is no solution except to try and block his discrimanatory and dangerous policies going through, .

Agreed and I believe there are both republicans and democrats who I think would share that opinion.

[eFestivals]

1 minute ago, pink_triangle said:

Although if Hillary had won the electoral college and lost the popular vote, would people be complaining? Its also possible in Britain for the party with the most votes to not get the most seats. I think theres pros and cons in using both the electoral college and the popular vote. If you went for popular vote the candidates would just end up camped out in New York, California, Texas etc instead of some of the smaller states. Would this give a better outcome, who knows?

well, the popular vote allows one part of the country that's heavily populated to decide everything onto the rest of the country, and part of that country might only rarely get what they voted for.

Normally LJS rails against this sort of thing, saying how wrong it is.

 

[eFestivals]

22 minutes ago, zahidf said:

There is no solution except to try and block his discrimanatory and dangerous policies going through, and to try and prevent the rise of hate crimes caused by his campaign. Impeachment would be great, but unlikely alas.

what, act against real things rather than made up things?

What a good idea, now why didn't i think of that?

 

[zahidf]

6 minutes ago, eFestivals said:

Arnie is a US Citizen. He wasn't born in the USA.

Are you saying that only black people might not have been born in the USA? Isn't that a teeny bit racist of you?

 

Arnie didnt try to become president. It was just a stupid news suggestion when he was governer. He never suggested it 

The last sentence is literally what the birthers said.

[zahidf]

 

[eFestivals]

1 minute ago, zahidf said:

Arnie didnt try to become president. It was just a stupid news suggestion when he was governer. He never suggested it 

The last sentence is literally what the birthers said.

Really?

Wanna tell me when was the last time there was a Pres with a non-US parent, to show Obama was singled out? 

FFS.

 

[russycarps]

28 minutes ago, zahidf said:

there wasnt a possibility of obama not being born in the USA. He was a US citizen! Birthers said the documentation was fake and he wasnt born in the USA because of him being black 

the fact he was black and his father was born overseas just made it an easier thing to lie about. They didnt care if he was black, white, yellow, green or blue. They were just using something, anything, the ONLY thing they had, to get him out. They didnt want him out because he was black, but they used that as a lever to try and get him out. Is that racist? No.

The democrats will now be trying just as hard to get trump out. And if his parents were born abroad you can bet they'd be seeing if they could use the birther tactic against him.

edit: bleugh, Im too late. I see neil has already covered all this

 

Edited November 11, 2016 by russycarps

[eFestivals]

1 minute ago, zahidf said:

 

That's dreadful and I hope she told her boss to fuck off.

But ... a few months ago, you were posting that this sort of thing would be the norm in the UK, but you seem to have gone silent on it. Why is that?

 

[zahidf]

11 minutes ago, eFestivals said:

Really?

Wanna tell me when was the last time there was a Pres with a non-US parent, to show Obama was singled out? 

FFS.

 

6 other presidents. Thomas Jefferson, Andrew Jackson, James buchannan, Chester arthur, Woodrow Wilson and Herbert Hoover. Never an issue with any of them.

[zahidf]

13 minutes ago, russycarps said:

the fact he was black and his father was born overseas just made it an easier thing to lie about. They didnt care if he was black, white, yellow, green or blue. They were just using something, anything, the ONLY thing they had, to get him out. They didnt want him out because he was black, but they used that as a lever to try and get him out. Is that racist? No.

The democrats will now be trying just as hard to get trump out. And if his parents were born abroad you can bet they'd be seeing if they could use the birther tactic against him.

edit: bleugh, Im too late. I see neil has already covered all this

 

Using racism as a tactic is reprehensible. Hence it being a racist campaign.

[LJS]

34 minutes ago, eFestivals said:

 

what, like let the votes decide the issue in the defined territory, you mean?

Funny, cos you normally have a problem with that, and want a version that favours just you.

not at all.

[zahidf]

26 minutes ago, eFestivals said:

That's dreadful and I hope she told her boss to fuck off.

But ... a few months ago, you were posting that this sort of thing would be the norm in the UK, but you seem to have gone silent on it. Why is that?

 

There has been a massive increase in hate crime in this country since Brexit (Around 53% increase i heard). I only became silent on the issue because apparently pointing it out meant i was being unfair to LEAVE voters, who of course i assume are surprised and horrified by this. Much as i assume Trump voters will be.

[GlastoSimon]

6 minutes ago, zahidf said:

There has been a massive increase in hate crime in this country since Brexit (Around 53% increase i heard). I only became silent on the issue because apparently pointing it out meant i was being unfair to LEAVE voters, who of course i assume are surprised and horrified by this. Much as i assume Trump voters will be.

There probably is a correlation, because certain views are being legitimised to an extent and morons feel that they can act upon those newly legitimised views they hold.

However - there are reasons Brexit and Trump happened. By ignoring the issues of many for so long, and continuing to do so, the problem only gets worse. It escalates into Brexit, Trump and hate crime, where as certain actions could have been taken a while ago and weren't. 

EDIT: Essentially, people shouting 'racist' for solveable problems leads to stuff like this happening. Especially when the counter-argument is so weak, evasive and cliched as it has been this year. Of course a lot of that is hindsight, but its true.

Edited November 11, 2016 by GlastoSimon

[eFestivals]

22 minutes ago, zahidf said:

6 other presidents. Thomas Jefferson, Andrew Jackson, James buchannan, Chester arthur, Woodrow Wilson and Herbert Hoover. Never an issue with any of them.

the newest of them almost a century ago.

In the meantime, the republicans have morphed into the 'divine right to govern' party, and have tried to remove the last two democratic president by whatever means were open to them.

One of those presidents wasn't black.

[eFestivals]

11 minutes ago, zahidf said:

There has been a massive increase in hate crime in this country since Brexit (Around 53% increase i heard). I only became silent on the issue because apparently pointing it out meant i was being unfair to LEAVE voters, who of course i assume are surprised and horrified by this. Much as i assume Trump voters will be.

there was a significant percentage increase tho from tiny number (tho still too many) to still a tiny number. It's subsided, tho not yet back to where it was.

None of the other things you said were certain have happened.

And here we go again.

I'm not welcoming these increases, by you going all fantasy apocalyptic isn't going to help people come together, it will polarise things further and ensure it continues.

Edited November 11, 2016 by eFestivals

[eFestivals]

7 minutes ago, GlastoSimon said:

There probably is a correlation, because certain views are being legitimised to an extent and morons feel that they can act upon those newly legitimised views they hold.

However - there are reasons Brexit and Trump happened. By ignoring the issues of many for so long, and continuing to do so, the problem only gets worse. It escalates into Brexit, Trump and hate crime, where as certain actions could have been taken a while ago and weren't. 

EDIT: Essentially, people shouting 'racist' for solveable problems leads to stuff like this happening. Especially when the counter-argument is so weak, evasive and cliched as it has been this year. Of course a lot of that is hindsight, but its true.

Nice post.

More of the same isn't going to make things better, it'll just harden divided opinions.

[eFestivals]

22 minutes ago, LJS said:

not at all.

so you accept brexit for the UK?

You've changed.

 

[eFestivals]

31 minutes ago, zahidf said:

Using racism as a tactic is reprehensible. Hence it being a racist campaign.

and who around here do you think is welcoming it?

The disputes with you are about how relevant it is to the voters who voted for Trump.