US Presidential Election 2016

[feral chile]

3 minutes ago, lost said:

When they confirm it afterwards, its no longer anonymous?

oh, so they can claim to donate, to discredit her, while supporting trump, and she can't prove it?

[lost]

Just now, LJS said:

Source?

Ill go with the Neil answer and say google it as Im busy watching football and posting on my phone in the pub, anyway i think its pretty standard loads of groups donate to both candidates so they can claim to have backed the winner. 

[LJS]

Just now, lost said:

Ill go with the Neil answer and say google it as Im busy watching football and posting on my phone in the pub, anyway i think its pretty standard loads of groups donate to both candidates so they can claim to have backed the winner. 

http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2016/08/30/is-this-hillary-clinton-kkk-supporter-just-an-elaborate-troll.html

[lost]

2 minutes ago, LJS said:

http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2016/08/30/is-this-hillary-clinton-kkk-supporter-just-an-elaborate-troll.html

So it goes on, as Neil says you can find links on the internet that support anything. If we start posting the stuff about pizzagate or her husbands visits on Jerry Epsteins "Lolita Express" to little st james in the U.S Virgin islands we could have the discussion which is worst a racist or a pedophile.    

[LJS]

13 minutes ago, lost said:

So it goes on, as Neil says you can find links on the internet that support anything. If we start posting the stuff about pizzagate or her husbands visits on Jerry Epsteins "Lolita Express" to little st james in the U.S Virgin islands we could have the discussion which is worst a racist or a pedophile.    

Or you could just accept that the Klan probably didn't really support Clinton. unless of course you were, for some inexplicable reason, desperately thrashing about trying to find something to discredit Clinton.

[lost]

7 minutes ago, LJS said:

Or you could just accept that the Klan probably didn't really support Clinton. unless of course you were, for some inexplicable reason, desperately thrashing about trying to find something to discredit Clinton.

I was merely supporting the original point that there are reasons not to support Clinton and vote for trump outside of "I don't like black people" and I said its very likely the Klan did back both candidates along with probably Goldman sachs, j p morgan, monsanto and a host of other organisations

Edited November 11, 2016 by lost

[feral chile]

8 minutes ago, lost said:

I was merely supporting the original point that there are reasons not to support Clinton and vote for trump outside of "I don't like black people" and I said its very likely the Klan did back both candidates along with probably Goldman sachs, j p morgan, monsanto and a host of other organisations

you'd still have to put those reasons before the racist comments and threats he made.

that hardly shows solidarity with ethnic minorities, does it?

 

[lost]

3 minutes ago, feral chile said:

you'd still have to put those reasons before the racist comments and threats he made.

that hardly shows solidarity with ethnic minorities, does it?

 

Well as we've already discussed many ethnic minorities were able to do that.

[feral chile]

Just now, lost said:

Well as we've already discussed many ethnic minorities were able to do that.

That doesn't make it right.

[lost]

4 minutes ago, feral chile said:

That doesn't make it right.

No but as someone from a working class background you hear stuff like that from every group of people white, black, asian etc.. down the pub on a Saturday night, I've heard much worse from woman about men than trumps "grab em by the pussy" and most people rightly or wrongly don't think it translates into real action.

People like Clinton or Corbyn think they know whats best for the working class but have probably never lived in a working class neighborhood, had working class colleagues or even been in a similar work-class bar. That's why they can't begin to understand that the result of the vote was anything other than racism.

[feral chile]

1 minute ago, lost said:

No but as someone from a working class background you hear stuff like that from every group of people white, black, asian etc.. down the pub on a Saturday night, I've heard much worse from woman about men than trumps "grab em by the pussy" and most people rightly or wrongly don't think it translates into real action.

People like Clinton or Corbyn think they know whats best for the working class but have probably never lived in a working class neighborhood, had working class colleagues or even been in a similar work-class bar. That's why they can't begin to understand that the result of the vote was anything other than racism.

It's not a question of not understanding. I think it's very easy to understand where priorities lie.

usually, the point of government is to be neutral, and promote social unity.

Not turn the clock back 50 years.

[lost]

2 minutes ago, feral chile said:

It's not a question of not understanding. I think it's very easy to understand where priorities lie.

usually, the point of government is to be neutral, and promote social unity.

Not turn the clock back 50 years.

The point of government is to carry out the wishes of the people. Loads of parties even in this country don't strive for unity and say try to divide say one region of Britain from the rest of us.

[feral chile]

[pink_triangle]

6 hours ago, LJS said:

This does not show that Donald supports the Klan.

"Ku Klux Klan announces Donald Trump victory parade as white supremacists celebrate nationwide"

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/ku-klux-klan-parade-north-carolina-donald-trump-celebration-president-elect-white-supremacists-alt-a7410671.html

I have no doubt that far right groups will try and jump aboard the Trump train, as some far left groups tried to jump aboard with Corbyn, IN both cases I hope the men do everything they can to distance themselves.

[pink_triangle]

5 hours ago, LJS said:

 

Yup & all the voters who you are making excuses for, who might not be racist but voted Trump because they were really concerned what server Hillary stored her e mails on, might wake the fuck up and realise that their vote has perhaps spurred on the right wing nutters featured above. You are the first to preach that people must take responsibility for the consequences of their vote... sometimes.

It seems to me that Western democracies have generally been doing a fairly good job of making people who hold offensive views realise that it is not acceptable to act on these views or articulate them in public & they'd be better just sitting in their bedrooms raging on the internet instead of acting on their prejudice in the real world. Meanwhile the younger generations seem to be more open minded & tolerant (there will be exceptions to this - the world is not uniform) 

 

I think its a little simplistic to say that emails was the only reason that people didnt vote Clinton. I think there were several reasons that people may have felt they didnt want to vote her, some within her (or the democratic parties) control and some not. I completely agree that many may regret their votes. I certainly regretted my lib dem vote in 2010, but it felt right at the time. My hope is that some will regret their votes and come back and send a democrat to the white house in 2020. The democrats need to find a way of attracting some of those people back 

[pink_triangle]

3 hours ago, LJS said:

 

 

He also said this

"Stats show Trump was the candidate of white straight Christian men 45+ who are doing fine financially but hate immigrants. Fuck those guys."

" I'm done with being told we need to "understand" racists, or that people who voted for racism are not racists."

"Trump is a racist. 57m American voters didn't mind & voted for him anyway. Whatever that makes them, it wasn't my fucking idea and saying i contributed by not accepting their racism is not true"

"If you vote for a racist leader, but say it was for another reason, you are saying 'Im not racist, but racism is fine'."

"Id say racism was a big enough part of the campaign that ignoring it certainly makes me wary of a Trump supporter."

The third quote above is the nearest to 

 

Im happy to let him speak for himself whether he thinks all Trump voters are racist, thats certainly my impression from reading what he says, but there could be some misinterpretation on my part.  What he certainly stand by is the fact that he completely oversimplifies the debate and doesnt help himself with stupid talk about "darkies".

A couple of examples the stats are completely twisted because if you could poll white straight christian men 45+ who are doing fine, but didnt hate immigrants you would probably find the majoirty voted for Trump as well. Also the majority of white woman also voted for Trump, but maybe didnt fit the picture he was trying to paint.

 

Also the point that American voters didnt mind that he was racist isnt really backed up by the polling of people who voted for Trump, many having a negtive view of the man. It looks at Trump in isolation and fails to analyze the flaws of his opponent. Is a racist worse than a foreign policy hawk, I would have voted for the hawk, but can see some people may have thought that Trump was all negative talk, but Clinton more potentially negative action.

The part about voting for a racist leader is saying im not a racist, but racism is fine is again oversimplification.  The racism aspect was one factor that would have been considered, but not the only one. It suggests that the democrats had the perfect candidate, if race was the only issue. As I have said some of these people voted for Obama twice and I think would have a third time. To try and group the whole 57 million together is completely flawed, some are racist scumbags who wil never change, so just want a better democrat.

[pink_triangle]

I have heard a few critics of Trump hoping for impeachment or death while in office. It's a case of be careful what you wish for. The thought of President Pence scares me more.

[eFestivals]

13 hours ago, zahidf said:

thanks! not holding my breath though

 

I'm ignoring mr liar.

You insisted everyone voted for racism. It's even in the words of yours that liar quoted above.

Yeah, you never said it.

[LJS]

1 minute ago, eFestivals said:

I'm ignoring mr liar.

You insisted everyone voted for racism. It's even in the words of yours that liar quoted above.

Yeah, you never said it.

Good morning, Neil Trump.

[eFestivals]

11 hours ago, feral chile said:

you'd still have to put those reasons before the racist comments and threats he made.

that hardly shows solidarity with ethnic minorities, does it?

 

Why do you think showing solidarity with other people is everyone's first concern?

As the easiest of examples, LJS doesn't do it. He's attached to division, not solidarity.

You, meanwhile, show solidarity with people in Wales but don't give a fuck about its effects on those outside of the UK borders. You want more for Wales, but don't care that's at the expense of the 3rd world (I know this because we've had this conversation explicitly).

There's no self-lauding going on, and you really are stood on a mountain of the higher moral ground. Yes, really.

 

[eFestivals]

3 minutes ago, LJS said:

Good morning, Neil Trump.

Morning Donald. Where's yer trousers? 

Round your ankles again I see.

(PS: am saving some of your words in the Scottish indy thread, to later expose your self-serving double-standards. )

[eFestivals]

11 hours ago, feral chile said:

That doesn't make it right.

Who said it did?

What it does make it tho is that every Trump voter is not supporting racism.

Who'd have thought it, eh? Not you or zahidf or LJS.

 

[eFestivals]

11 hours ago, feral chile said:

It's not a question of not understanding. I think it's very easy to understand where priorities lie.

Yep.

People do what they think is best for them.

You know, like voting for the guy who says he'll ensure they get a better job, or whatever.

In a world of imperfect choices, people still have a make a choice.

 

Quote

usually, the point of government is to be neutral, and promote social unity.

Not turn the clock back 50 years.

Really? Haven't the tories been trying to turn the clock back 50 years for at least the last 50 years?

And Corbyn is trying to turn the clock back 40 years, with a divisive line of all the UK's problems are caused by the rich, who he intends to (democratically) rob?

Are you claiming all of the moral high ground for all of the UK now....?

While you happily vote nashie, wanting to turn it back to a time of a mythical independent Wales that never existed? PMSL.

Edited November 12, 2016 by eFestivals

[eFestivals]

11 hours ago, feral chile said:

and J.K.Rowling and those words are things which LJS fundamentally disagrees with, as you perhaps don't know that.

While you're presumably thinking he'd be nodding along in agreement with that...?

Wake the fuck up. Even you don't do what you highlight here, you vote nashie FFS.

 

[eFestivals]

10 hours ago, pink_triangle said:

Im happy to let him speak for himself whether he thinks all Trump voters are racist, thats certainly my impression from reading what he says, but there could be some misinterpretation on my part.  What he certainly stand by is the fact that he completely oversimplifies the debate and doesnt help himself with stupid talk about "darkies".

A couple of examples the stats are completely twisted because if you could poll white straight christian men 45+ who are doing fine, but didnt hate immigrants you would probably find the majoirty voted for Trump as well. Also the majority of white woman also voted for Trump, but maybe didnt fit the picture he was trying to paint.

 

Also the point that American voters didnt mind that he was racist isnt really backed up by the polling of people who voted for Trump, many having a negtive view of the man. It looks at Trump in isolation and fails to analyze the flaws of his opponent. Is a racist worse than a foreign policy hawk, I would have voted for the hawk, but can see some people may have thought that Trump was all negative talk, but Clinton more potentially negative action.

The part about voting for a racist leader is saying im not a racist, but racism is fine is again oversimplification.  The racism aspect was one factor that would have been considered, but not the only one. It suggests that the democrats had the perfect candidate, if race was the only issue. As I have said some of these people voted for Obama twice and I think would have a third time. To try and group the whole 57 million together is completely flawed, some are racist scumbags who wil never change, so just want a better democrat.

Nicely put.

So many people have been wrongly labelled racist on so many occasions that huge numbers of people no longer listen to the likes of zahidf. He's made himself irrelevant as an opponent to the likes of Trump.

What's the definition of insanity, again? Doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different result.