US Presidential Election 2016

[eFestivals]

5 minutes ago, zahidf said:

Last time republicans held complete control of government was 1928. A year later the stock market crashed so we got that to look forward to

I thought you were going to tell us all that they were throwing immigrants into the sea.

 

[GlastoSimon]

Whole thing is totally bizarre - predicted it yesterday but still feels surreal.

Don't feel as shitty as I did post-Brexit, probably because he's such an unknown and we all knew the process for Brexit. Sort of assumed he'd be a populist who will say anything to get in, then a lot of his policies (wall, mass deportation etc.) would never come to fruition. Who knows. Speech was very toned down as well, but then so was May's.

One thing I do agree on is I don't think he'll be particularly pro-war. Be interesting to see how he gets on with Russia re: Syria, because that will tell us a lot.

Think the fact he is not a traditional Republican probably helped him if anything. 

[GlastoSimon]

5 minutes ago, russycarps said:

Hillary wheeling out all her celebrity buddies on stage with her was the final straw. Trump countering that by standing on stage alone saying "it's just me up here, I dont need any help" was masterful I thought. I bet that won him a lot of votes.

Her whole campaign was atrocious. Arrogant and massively misjudged. 

 

You could completely see the Brexit comparisons at this point, it was a different celebrity every day. Apparently Clinton didn't visit Wisconsin either, bit complacent I think.

As I said a minute ago, the assumptions re: 'Red State' and 'Blue State' were always dangerous when you have someone like Trump.

[The Nal]

2 minutes ago, GlastoSimon said:

Think the fact he is not a traditional Republican probably helped him if anything. 

Hes not even a politician, never mind a Republican. First timer. Only Eisenhower did it before. But he was a bonafide all time war hero. 

The positive thing for people who are scared by what he might do is that he doesn't know how to play the game in Washington. Who to lean on, what strings to pull etc so his initial impact will be limited. 

[zahidf]

Why do i feel the complacency about him has strong parrellells with Germans in the late 30's about their new, strident strong man leader?

 

Pence is just as bad. Their next vice president believes we should defund HIV research and use the money to fund gay conversion therapy. Let that sink in.

Edited November 9, 2016 by zahidf

[eFestivals]

5 minutes ago, zahidf said:

 

Why do i feel the complacency about him has strong parrellells with Germans in the late 30's about their new, strident strong man leader?

 

It's what you feel about everything.

Because your fantasies are over-riding all thought.

[The Nal]

11 minutes ago, zahidf said:

Why do i feel the complacency about him has strong parrellells with Germans in the late 30's about their new, strident strong man leader?

I've no idea. Thats your issue. Theres no comparison there. 

12 minutes ago, zahidf said:

Pence is just as bad. Their next vice president believes we should defund HIV research and use the money to fund gay conversion therapy. Let that sink in.

Yeah hes a religious lunatic. Thats why he was picked. Vice Presidents are picked to help win elections. Not to serve. They're fairly useless really. 

[feral chile]

I feel really disheartened by this anti establishment sentiment, that seems to be appealing to people's baser instincts.

and ironically, handing power over to the most influential establishment actors.

why are people who are sick of austerity turning to a less compassionate politics?

Is it some kind of evolutionary survival instinct? Survival of the fittest mentality kicking in?

[The Nal]

2 minutes ago, feral chile said:

I feel really disheartened by this anti establishment sentiment, that seems to be appealing to people's baser instincts.

and ironically, handing power over to the most influential establishment actors.

why are people who are sick of austerity turning to a less compassionate politics?

Is it some kind of evolutionary survival instinct? Survival of the fittest mentality kicking in?

Its fascinating alright. I think we've reached a point now where we have gathered enough media cumulatively about politics to see that its the same old. For Americans, they can look at videos now from the 60s of politicians promising the world and doing nothing, promising not to go to war and then going to war, promising "no new taxes" like Bush Snr and then introducing new taxes, saying the did not have sexual relations with that woman and then finding a dress with a load of jizz all over it etc. 

Politics as we know it is dead. The style of speech, kissing babies, bringing out celebs to endorse you model is over. 

 

[zahidf]

The only election with the right result was London mayorship, where Goldsmith's attempts at a Trump style campaign failed miserably. More places across the world need to be as tolerant, intelligent and progressive like London, California and New York

[Wooderson]

Trump is a brand. He's no leader/executive. His job is to "make America great again." He's already indicated that most of the decision making will be divested to Pence/Giuliani etc.

[lost]

13 minutes ago, feral chile said:

 

why are people who are sick of austerity turning to a less compassionate politics?

Well in America's case Clinton going after "the rich" won't have helped. Its a different culture than over here, they won't think the solution to austerity is redistribution, they'd rather a politician promised to create an economy where they could be rich too.

Seems like she was dragged to the left trying to win over Bernie supporters and ended up making nobody happy.

Edited November 9, 2016 by lost

[mungo57]

[zahidf]

America voted for hatred and bigotry. For fear and contempt. They voted for a wall between them and Mexico, for the banning of muslims, for consent to sexual assault. They voted for racism, sexism, misogyny, xenophobia and homophobia in all their ugly violent forms. No fucking excuses, that's what his campaign was about. And that's what they knowingly voted for. Let that sink in. If he tanks there economy, they have no one to blame but themselves

[zahidf]

23 minutes ago, eFestivals said:

It's what you feel about everything.

Because your fantasies are over-riding all thought.

 

[eFestivals]

2 minutes ago, feral chile said:

I feel really disheartened by this anti establishment sentiment, that seems to be appealing to people's baser instincts.

it's appealing to people's stupid instincts, not necessarily their baser ones.

It comes from the idea that now is bad, therefore change must be better.

The problem is that those people refuse to consider the possibility that change might not be better. Their driven by their hatred of what-is rather than an intelligent consideration of what they might have instead.

Just look north where the hatred of Westminster is rampant, but where Scotland's fiscal position doesn't really get a look-in. And so you have people supporting indy "because of tory cuts" but dismissing the fact that iScotland would have to cut much harder.

Almost nothing of what happens the other side of victory enters their thoughts, which is exactly why we're brexiting without a plan for brexiting.

 

2 minutes ago, feral chile said:

why are people who are sick of austerity turning to a less compassionate politics?

Because for some people money isn't fantasy thing that can be magick'd up to have wealth fall from the sky, but is instead the tangible result of their work efforts.

Austerity is a limit of resources, not a limit of money. We can only have greater public resources if we allocate more of our work efforts towards the public sector and at the expense of what we might otherwise have for ourselves.

When people feel they already don't get enough for themselves, they're not going to vote to take stuff from themselves.

 

2 minutes ago, feral chile said:

Is it some kind of evolutionary survival instinct? Survival of the fittest mentality kicking in?

Yep, to an extent.

But also based in the gross stupidity of thinking you can have extra by magic and not by work. Farage and Boris promised you could have it all, just as Trump did.

Sturgeon and Corbyn are trying the same trick, but they're both on the wrong side of the politics. Sturgeon has an advantage over Corbyn because she has other narratives to play on, but if she gets victory that 'wrong side of politics' come into play big time, like tories on steroids, because what gets delivered is something very very different to what her supporters believe.

 

 

[zahidf]

21 minutes ago, feral chile said:

I feel really disheartened by this anti establishment sentiment, that seems to be appealing to people's baser instincts.

and ironically, handing power over to the most influential establishment actors.

why are people who are sick of austerity turning to a less compassionate politics?

Is it some kind of evolutionary survival instinct? Survival of the fittest mentality kicking in?

Stats show Trump was the candidate of white straight Christian men 45+ who are doing fine financially but hate immigrants. Fuck those guys.

 

I'm done with being told we need to "understand" racists, or that people who voted for racism are not racists.

Edited November 9, 2016 by zahidf

[Wooderson]

2 minutes ago, zahidf said:

America voted for hatred and bigotry. For fear and contempt. They voted for a wall between them and Mexico, for the banning of muslims, for consent to sexual assault. They voted for racism, sexism, misogyny, xenophobia and homophobia in all their ugly violent forms. No fucking excuses, that's what his campaign was about. And that's what they knowingly voted for. Let that sink in. If he tanks there economy, they have no one to blame but themselves

The shining city that JFK/Reagan spoke of looks pretty far away today. That gobshite and Uday/Qusay in the White House? Dear oh dear America.

[eFestivals]

4 minutes ago, zahidf said:

America voted for hatred and bigotry. For fear and contempt. They voted for a wall between them and Mexico, for the banning of muslims, for consent to sexual assault. They voted for racism, sexism, misogyny, xenophobia and homophobia in all their ugly violent forms. No fucking excuses, that's what his campaign was about. And that's what they knowingly voted for. Let that sink in. If he tanks there economy, they have no one to blame but themselves

No.

They merely voted in a different way to what you approve of.

The beeb had some exit polling results on screen during the night, where a big majority of the electorate thought both Trump and Clinton dishonest and untrustworthy by around the same extent.

From those two hated's they had to pick one, and they picked the one that represented a change from the current set-up which they see as failing.

 

[eFestivals]

6 minutes ago, zahidf said:

 

Who knew, bad shit happens.

But it's not happening yet, not the remotest part of it.

The worst that's happening is protests against democracy - from the side you want to regard as the 'good' and democratic side, not from those who you want to regard as the opposite.

 

[zahidf]

3 minutes ago, eFestivals said:

No.

They merely voted in a different way to what you approve of.

The beeb had some exit polling results on screen during the night, where a big majority of the electorate thought both Trump and Clinton dishonest and untrustworthy by around the same extent.

From those two hated's they had to pick one, and they picked the one that represented a change from the current set-up which they see as failing.

 

are you seriously defending Trump and his racist campaign?

[Wooderson]

Putting any truck in polling, exit or otherwise, is a waste of time today.

[zahidf]

great from Merkel

 

 

[eFestivals]

1 minute ago, zahidf said:

are you seriously defending Trump and his racist campaign?

Oh FFS.

No, I'm pointing out you're being a dick, inventing all the bollocks you can that has not a jot of factual accuracy.

Yes, Trump said some outrageous things, but don't cry wolf before there's a fucking wolf.

 

[The Nal]

24 minutes ago, Wooderson said:

Trump is a brand. He's no leader/executive. His job is to "make America great again." 

So was the Gippers. 

 

Controversial candidate who came from an entertainment background, knew the value of media (as JFK did), had a controversial immigration stance and believed in turning the bull loose. 

Clinton believed in MAGA too

 

Putting any truck in polling, exit or otherwise, is a waste of time today.

A waste of time from now on! Spectacularly wrong. 

Edited November 9, 2016 by The Nal