US Presidential Election 2016

[pink_triangle]

1 hour ago, zahidf said:

Altough much like with leave voters, i guess i have to pretend Trump voters arent racist morons as well?

Im sure some are and some arent. I have no doubt that some people just thought Hillary was a worse option in a 2 person race.

[eFestivals]

2 minutes ago, zahidf said:

great from Merkel

 

 

Have you noticed that the woman with real experience of real nazis isn't claiming the same things as you....?

 

[zahidf]

1 minute ago, eFestivals said:

Oh FFS.

No, I'm pointing out you're being a dick, inventing all the bollocks you can that has not a jot of factual accuracy.

Yes, Trump said some outrageous things, but don't cry wolf before there's a fucking wolf.

 

Even if its someone who says he is a wolf and will act like a wolf, and who comes across like a wolf?

[eFestivals]

Just now, zahidf said:

Even if its someone who says he is a wolf and will act like a wolf, and who comes across like a wolf?

Can I suggest you attend a marketing course...?

Oh, actually, I know you've already attended a few. Didn't do you any good tho, did it?

[mjsell]

I'm still of the belief that all this started as a marketing campaign that has spiralled out of control.

I hope he tries to build a wall, so he realises 2000 miles is fucking far.

But yeah I dont think this result is as apocalyptic as so many are suggesting today. It will be like most other Republican Presidencies.

[pink_triangle]

1 hour ago, zahidf said:

because they didnt think he would win. Now he has, they will jump back on the Trump train.

 

This is the international rise and mainstreamining of the far right. We should all be very scared.

Some will and some will not. There are certainly republican politicians who will fear for the long term future of the party under Trump with demographic changes.

[pink_triangle]

1 hour ago, zahidf said:

Last time republicans held complete control of government was 1928. A year later the stock market crashed so we got that to look forward to

Although complete control is slightly misleading as democrats can block most legislation in the senate as they have 40+ senators.

[feral chile]

All I hope is that he was just living the American Dream - that democratic ideal that any American can become president.

And that he wanted power for power's sake, rather than the agenda he was pushing in order to gain it.

I'm starting to see why people are frightened of idealists.

[The Nal]

4 minutes ago, feral chile said:

All I hope is that he was just living the American Dream - that democratic ideal that any American can become president.

And that he wanted power for power's sake, rather than the agenda he was pushing in order to gain it.

I'm starting to see why people are frightened of idealists.

Politicians are a weird weird bunch. Crazy mindset. Believing in themselves so much. "I can be the leader of the free world. I can govern hundreds of millions". 

Hilary not helping herself by not speaking. Fairly poor. As was this tweet. What a load of old cobblers.

 

Did anyone see Rich Halls Presidential Grudge Match the other night? Absolutely superb viewing. 

 

Edited November 9, 2016 by The Nal

[pink_triangle]

30 minutes ago, zahidf said:

America voted for hatred and bigotry. For fear and contempt. They voted for a wall between them and Mexico, for the banning of muslims, for consent to sexual assault. They voted for racism, sexism, misogyny, xenophobia and homophobia in all their ugly violent forms. No fucking excuses, that's what his campaign was about. And that's what they knowingly voted for. Let that sink in. If he tanks there economy, they have no one to blame but themselves

However I would argue that you frame the only moral choice in being the one that you would make.  They may make the argument that they were only given the choice of the racist, sexist, misoginyst or the corrupt, war supporting, friend of wall street and had to make a choice of bad v bad.

They may make the argument that they were voting against big government, against tax increases, against increased abortion rights. Its not the choice that I would make, but I dont dispute other to think differently to me.

The general electorate were given 2 flawed candidates and had to make a decision.

[pink_triangle]

2 minutes ago, The Nal said:

Politicians are a weird weird bunch. Crazy mindset. Believing in themselves so much. "I can be the leader of the free world. I can govern hundreds of millions". 

Hilary not helping herself by not speaking. Fairly poor. As was this tweet. What a load of old cobb

 

I agree it was poor form not making a concession speech, although I suspect Trump may have done something similar.

[zahidf]

2 minutes ago, pink_triangle said:

However I would argue that you frame the only moral choice in being the one that you would make.  They may make the argument that they were only given the choice of the racist, sexist, misoginyst or the corrupt, war supporting, friend of wall street and had to make a choice of bad v bad.

They may make the argument that they were voting against big government, against tax increases, against increased abortion rights. Its not the choice that I would make, but I dont dispute other to think differently to me.

The general electorate were given 2 flawed candidates and had to make a decision.

Strange how they the white men are willing to fuck over women and minorities for 'smaller govt' (less taxes) though by voting in a racist sexist

[The Nal]

2 minutes ago, pink_triangle said:

I agree it was poor form not making a concession speech, although I suspect Trump may have done something similar.

He said he wouldn't even acknowledge the win! Never mind make a speech.

I thought Hillary "went high" though? Sending her staff out there to tell everyone to go home. 

[zahidf]

[pink_triangle]

2 minutes ago, zahidf said:

Strange how they the white men are willing to fuck over women and minorities for 'smaller govt' (less taxes) though by voting in a racist sexist

I think theres an argument for lower and higher taxes, I dont agree with either 0% or 100% tax, so think where you set the bar is up for debate. I think there is a moral argument (not necessarily one I agree with) to pay less tax, without you necessarily being all about screwing someone else.

One of my best friend is a conservative, believes in lower taxes and is probably one of the kindest and most genuine people I know.  I dont believe you can put everyone in the same box.

[zahidf]

1 minute ago, pink_triangle said:

I think theres an argument for lower and higher taxes, I dont agree with either 0% or 100% tax, so think where you set the bar is up for debate. I think there is a moral argument (not necessarily one I agree with) to pay less tax, without you necessarily being all about screwing someone else.

One of my best friend is a conservative, believes in lower taxes and is probably one of the kindest and most genuine people I know.  I dont believe you can put everyone in the same box.

But your 'kind friend' may be ok voting for a guy who boasts about sexual assault, wants to discriminate against nuslims entering the country and mocks disabled people?

 

Just for less money to pay tax

[pink_triangle]

2 minutes ago, zahidf said:

One thing I do believe in relation to number 3 is the left need to get far better at articulating an argument. Far too often left wing intellectuals are guilty of taking 200 words when they could use 20, or using long words when they could use short.  Its too easy to just blame the electorate and the opposition, while giving your own side a free pass.

[pink_triangle]

Just now, zahidf said:

But your 'kind friend' may be ok voting for a guy who boasts about sexual assault, wants to discriminate against nuslims entering the country and mocks disabled people?

 

Just for less money to pay tax

I think it would depend whether he believed it was genuine or bravado.  If he had a choice between racist/sexist or corrupt/warmongerer he would have no good choice.

[eFestivals]

4 minutes ago, pink_triangle said:

I dont believe you can put everyone in the same box.

I believe that zahidf can. He does.

Everyone who doesn't think like him is racist.

It's a view, but a view few will accept, and therefore he's got no one taking him seriously.

And he calls Trump flawed.

 

[michael eavis' beard]

25 minutes ago, mjsell said:

But yeah I dont think this result is as apocalyptic as so many are suggesting today. It will be like most other Republican Presidencies.

Except there's a Republican controlled House and Senate and there's a spare seat on the Supreme Court.

[zahidf]

4 minutes ago, pink_triangle said:

I think it would depend whether he believed it was genuine or bravado.  If he had a choice between racist/sexist or corrupt/warmongerer he would have no good choice.

i guess if he turns out to be wrong, he wont have any negative consequences not being a woman or a minority, so win win really!

[eFestivals]

2 minutes ago, michael eavis' beard said:

Except there's a Republican controlled House and Senate and there's a spare seat on the Supreme Court.

Which really only means we'll get the standard Republican stuff and most of Trump's campaign bollocks will be bollocks. I'm not a fan of the standard Republican bollocks, obviously, but it's not the apocalypse.

Brexiters had the liberals telling them they were stupid, which only made them more determined to vote stupid. Trumpers had the liberals telling them they were stupid which only made them more determined to vote stupid.

Some when soon I hope this sinks in.

[The Nal]

The mistakes made by the democrats this cycle are as bad as I've seen. Hillary calling half of the country "deplorables" biting her on the arse. As you'd expect. Utter madness. As offensive as anything Trump said to the electorate. 

Edited November 9, 2016 by The Nal

[michael eavis' beard]

1 minute ago, eFestivals said:

Which really only means we'll get the standard Republican stuff and most of Trump's campaign bollocks will be bollocks. I'm not a fan of the standard Republican bollocks, obviously, but it's not the apocalypse.

Brexiters had the liberals telling them they were stupid, which only made them more determined to vote stupid. Trumpers had the liberals telling them they were stupid which only made them more determined to vote stupid.

Some when soon I hope this sinks in.

Wasn't supporting the apocalypse idea - but the idea that this is not likely to be just another Republican presidency.

That standard Republican stuff is likely to include increasing voter ID laws, revisiting abortion rights, gay marriage, gays in the military, relaxing gun laws, health care, tax cuts for the wealthy etc.  This stuff is now supported by all branches of government in America.

[lost]

1 hour ago, zahidf said:

 

Where is that quote from? From what I've read about the weimar republic and hyperinflation there was hardly any form of functioning government, near anarchy and almost constant power grabs from numerous communist and fascist groups and parties. I can't imagine anyone would think that there were political structures in place which could impeach a president.