Lorde

[sisco]

54 minutes ago, Hugh Jass said:

Do you need a #1 album to sub? Tame Impala never had one, The National never had one (SWB came out after they subbed), Vampire Weekend never had one…

I can hear the crowd now when she walks on to sub… boooooo, she didn’t get a number 1 album, get off!!  
 

[Suprefan]

U.S. charts will have Lorde at #3. Olivia Rodrigo came in just shy of breaking the Billie Eilish vinyl record with 80,000 sold this week. Lorde mightve not even charted as high  if it wasnt for Billboard counting the eco friendly edition of the album despite it not having something physical included..

[dentalplan]

7 hours ago, Suprefan said:

if it wasnt for Billboard counting the eco friendly edition of the album despite it not having something physical included..

It does have a download code included, so I think those will have counted. I can't access the UK Download chart at the moment but I recall reading she was leading on that, which figures.

[dentalplan]

8 hours ago, Hugh Jass said:

Do you need a #1 album to sub? Tame Impala never had one, The National never had one (SWB came out after they subbed), Vampire Weekend never had one…

Nah, an act doesn't need a #1 album to sub. There are no rules (hopefully) and tbh I think sales should matter more than the placing on a particular week.

I've only brought it up as a dose of realism in response to people who think she's a massive star still on the rise. Her status is overestimated quite frequently on here - and I am, of course, a smart arse.

To be likened to those three acts at the point they subbed is enough of a slight on someone considered by fans to be one of the biggest names in pop music and nestled alongside Eilish, Swift, Grande, whoever.

[FloorFiller]

9 hours ago, Zacko said:

Genuine question, would the sub slot not have already been booked at this point? Or at least pre album release?

(I honestly have no idea, and I guess it varies)

Yeah whatever slot she’s been offered probably will have been cemented before the albums release, and I really don’t think it’s ever gonna be a case of them hearing and/or seeing the reception to a new album and going ‘eh, not sub material, would you consider playing third down instead?’ or anything. Then you also have Lana’s probably vacant sub slot so one moody pop girl out and another in would make sense, but we’ve seemingly got Billie filling that void now so I don’t think they’d have Lorde on before her.

Maybe if this album was full of bangers I’d be thinking differently (like I’m sure I was like a month ago) but when I think of Lorde on the lineup it’s third down, before everybody’s really let loose, breezy tunes… just seems more fitting. Echoing @dentalplanhere but I think Haim are more likely for a sub bump than Lorde getting it.

[jparx]

11 hours ago, Zacko said:

Genuine question, would the sub slot not have already been booked at this point? Or at least pre album release?

(I honestly have no idea, and I guess it varies)

Yep, I reckon so. She was announced for PS a while ago, and she was probably signed up for Glastonbury around then as well. And, really, an album worst described as “polarising” that’s hit #2 in charts isn’t changing a bookers opinion of where someone fits on the bill.

10 hours ago, nikkic said:

Are you including Mood Ring in that summary? 

Because it’s a fucking vibe. 

Other than that you’re spot on. I like the start and then it drifts into nothingness until MR.

Mood Ring is really good but it’s sandwiched in between a lot of nothing. Gets lost a bit for me. I’d rather it be track 7 and then I can just ignore the last few tracks 😂

[FloorFiller]

Yeah by the time Mood Ring comes along after that awful middle run my brain has pretty much switched off and just tolerating what comes next. Honestly can’t remember what Mood Ring sounds like at all.

[Matt42]

Can’t help but feel though that Solar Power, The Path, Mood Ring etc will sound very good in a crowded field.

I think she will still sub. This will have been arranged at the time other festivals were putting their lineups together and giving her large slots to play.

This will be the highest she ever plays at the festival though (I reckon).

[Matt42]

13 hours ago, FloorFiller said:

I’m sure there are a lot of examples but I’m drawing a blank on the last time a major artist like Lorde answered such massive hype and potential with such a dull nothing whimper of an album. Trying to think of what those other acts did next/whether they recovered but really can’t think of any who did it in such a boring, not even ‘hilariously bad’ kind of way. 

Could you say Gaga and Artpop? Or Katy Perry with Witness? Gaga somewhat recovered from a dip better than Katy did, Witness was the end of Katy’s mega star career tbh.

[jparx]

8 minutes ago, Matt42 said:

Could you say Gaga and Artpop? Or Katy Perry with Witness? Gaga somewhat recovered from a dip better than Katy did, Witness was the end of Katy’s mega star career tbh.

Any album with this behemoth is no flop in my book 😂

 

[FloorFiller]

Gaga also followed that one up with Joanne which I’d consider an even bigger flop, and Katy with Smile. Both of those artists already had huge mega hits behind them though and had already established themselves as huge acts (even if Gaga managed to hold on to her megastardom and Katy… slightly less so) whereas Lorde should be making those steps with this album instead of it arriving with a dull thud. 

[Matt42]

6 minutes ago, FloorFiller said:

Gaga also followed that one up with Joanne which I’d consider an even bigger flop, and Katy with Smile. Both of those artists already had huge mega hits behind them though and had already established themselves as huge acts (even if Gaga managed to hold on to her megastardom and Katy… slightly less so) whereas Lorde should be making those steps with this album instead of it arriving with a dull thud. 

Yeah I agree - but I do think Lorde has decided to try and chase the “indie girl” / “niche girl” career direction rather than massive global pop fame. I would say that Artpop/Joanne/ Witness will be more damaging as Gaga and Katy have always tried to be the biggest artist in the world. It’s a larger and more noticeable fall from grace for them.

It’s always seemed to me that Lorde is happy with having a tight fan base that buy her records on vinyl. Hype does carry her well but you’re right that it doesn’t last forever. She will still have a fair amount of attention for a while as she’s still young and her fan base is still tight, I do think though all she would need to do is release another critical darling album and solidify her position. But as I said this will be nothing more than mid-tier festival headliner /  biggish slot at festivals and a few ally pally dates. She’s not going to be a major player and I think she knows that/doesn’t want it.

Edited August 28, 2021 by Matt42

[Matt42]

10 minutes ago, jparx said:

Any album with this behemoth is no flop in my book 😂

 

Whilst I love this bizarre banger it goes down like a cup of cold sick with casual music listeners lol.

[jparx]

18 minutes ago, Matt42 said:

Yeah I agree - but I do think Lorde has decided to try and chase the “indie girl” / “niche girl” career direction rather than massive global pop fame. I would say that Artpop/Joanne/ Witness will be more damaging as Gaga and Katy have always tried to be the biggest artist in the world. It’s a larger and more noticeable fall from grace for them.

It’s always seemed to me that Lorde is happy with having a tight fan base that buy her records on vinyl. Hype does carry her well but you’re right that it doesn’t last forever. She will still have a fair amount of attention for a while as she’s still young and her fan base is still tight, I do think though all she would need to do is release another critical darling album and solidify her position. But as I said this will be nothing more than mid-tier festival headliner /  biggish slot at festivals and a few ally pally dates. She’s not going to be a major player and I think she knows that/doesn’t want it.

She’s on her own path, and I’m here for it. Might not please everyone with every record, but it’s a much more interesting journey to follow. 

[Mattymooz]

14 hours ago, FloorFiller said:

I’m sure there are a lot of examples but I’m drawing a blank on the last time a major artist like Lorde answered such massive hype and potential with such a dull nothing whimper of an album. Trying to think of what those other acts did next/whether they recovered but really can’t think of any who did it in such a boring, not even ‘hilariously bad’ kind of way. 

Arguably Lana with Lust For Life I guess? (Though that was a lot less egregious than Solar Power) - but if that's the case then I can't wait for Lorde's NFR!

[CaledonianGonzo]

 

 

[dentalplan]

23 minutes ago, CaledonianGonzo said:

 

 

They haven't released anything since though. The discussion was around artists who bounced back.

Plus they were already established headliners. They already have it made.

[dentalplan]

39 minutes ago, Mattymooz said:

Arguably Lana with Lust For Life I guess? (Though that was a lot less egregious than Solar Power) - but if that's the case then I can't wait for Lorde's NFR!

I think Lana releasing as frequently as she does means she can have one that just washes over people and it not being a massive misstep.

In that way, I think Lorde releasing something very different next year would probably do something to halt any descent. She's probably too busy on the beach though.

[CaledonianGonzo]

44 minutes ago, dentalplan said:

They haven't released anything since though. The discussion was around artists who bounced back.

Plus they were already established headliners. They already have it made.

Ah...in that case never mind.

Though they ain't Glastonbury headliners anymore.

[Suprefan]

7 hours ago, dentalplan said:

It does have a download code included, so I think those will have counted. I can't access the UK Download chart at the moment but I recall reading she was leading on that, which figures.

Yeah. When I was looking at the chart numbers there was a whole paragraph on why Billboard normally would not include the sales of the eco friendly version. There is a scenario in which intent of something like this can have an exception to count. Any other time they look at it as a way to manipulate sales, which is true. Download codes dont automatically mean it should count pretty much. Theyve tried to clean up the shady things labels do to try and get extra sales to score a #1. DJ Khaled had a meltdown because he tried to bundle a download card with sales of a soda and Billboard wasnt having it.

[Suprefan]

interesting talk on Gaga and Arcade Fire. So they wanted to experiment and such, and thats what theyre being hailed as flops for. I think thats how you should look at things sometimes. They have every right to go do whatever the hell they want at some point  after being pretty successful and if it doesnt do as well or not have all the bangers you expect, then thats your fault for thinking somebody should just keep being ''boring'' in a sense. I had friends who were so upset at Everything Now cause it wasnt The Suburbs 2.0 and said they wouldnt buy tickets to one of their gigs til after the next album was out cause they felt ripped off. Gaga ended up busting her hip on the Artpop tour which was in stadiums mind you, so apparently when it came to touring nobody cared if the music wasnt up to a certain standard I guess. That era was gone pretty fast. Lana is somebody who def has kept on doing the same exact thing and everyone eats it up because why? ITS THE SAME EXACT THING FOR THE LAST 10 YEARS.

 

I think somebody thats going to have it even harder than Lorde is Billie despite being so huge. She is what the record industry was trying to get out of Lorde and when she rejected that, they sort of moved on and found another weird 15 year old that could do what they wanted and they got it. The thing is that album 3 for Billie will really be the make or break one cause by then it will have been almost 5 years of all this and people move on. I mean they kind of have with Olivia Rodrigo showing up. Or because Billie is so young that there will be this ''forgotten'' period and then when she turns 30 the ''revival'' era begins or something. 

 

Lets look at this example and everyone will agree ''yeah, not that good.'' But are they a flop for doing that so deep in their career? Or just that they wanted to yet again fiddle around with stuff and it just didnt materialize into what it could have. But then the follow up was awesome, so its not as if this artist lost it at all. Theyre still capable.

[Matt42]

The point though is that highly established artists can survive a dud if they have legendary albums in their discography.

No one cares if one Radiohead album is divisive because they have a huge back catalog that fans still play on rotation. The argument the others are making is that Melodrama / Pure Heroine is not enough to rest on. If she doubles down on the direction of Solar Power she will have to start accepting lower slots at the events she plays. 

[CaledonianGonzo]

Radiohead's entire career is a bounce back after a dud.

 

[Suprefan]

 

[Matt42]

10 hours ago, Suprefan said:

 

Tanked