Don't vote Tory

[eFestivals]

1 minute ago, Ommadawn said:

What a mess. A hung parliament is the worse possible result for the UK regardless of who is the largest party. I think May will have to go (probably forced out in a couple of months or so) and then another election? 

Can't see an election any time soon. I can't see May getting replaced too quickly either.

But there's no doubt she's a dead'un walking. Interesting times.

 

[musky]

2 minutes ago, Ommadawn said:

What a mess. A hung parliament is the worse possible result for the UK regardless of who is the largest party. I think May will have to go (probably forced out in a couple of months or so) and then another election? 

Yep. Yet again another Tory leader miscalculates to the detriment of the country.

[Lucy92]

I don't really see this as a result worth celebrating. A hung parliament is the worst thing for the country at the moment! 

[frostypaw]

11 minutes ago, eFestivals said:

It only shows how low the bar was set by Corbyn himself.

Any data on that is ruined and useless after the extraordinary campaign against him. Unfortunate side effect of the actions of those who now want the data to say they're right, they screwed it up for themselves.

[Fingerbobs]

I think it's alright for now. No hard Brexit that's for sure. In fact they might as well suspend the whole process for a couple of years while the dust settles then kick it into the long grass. The tories will self combust with in-fighting over the next few weeks at least so no way can we negotiate anything at the moment. 

[baggienick68]

1 minute ago, Fingerbobs said:

I think it's alright for now. No hard Brexit that's for sure. In fact they might as well suspend the whole process for a couple of years while the dust settles then kick it into the long grass. The tories will self combust with in-fighting over the next few weeks at least so no way can we negotiate anything at the moment. 

Unfortunately now they have triggered Article 50 we are on a tight timescale.

[somecoolusername]

A massive Tory majority would be the worst thing for the country as it would be a mandate for them to do their worst with regards to Brexit, NHS, the whole lot.

It's wide open now. May has made a total fool of herself. Calling an election when she didn't have to, and losing a comfortable majority that was handed to her on a plate. 

Incredible scenes.

[Guest]

9 minutes ago, Fingerbobs said:

I think it's alright for now. No hard Brexit that's for sure. In fact they might as well suspend the whole process for a couple of years while the dust settles then kick it into the long grass. The tories will self combust with in-fighting over the next few weeks at least so no way can we negotiate anything at the moment. 

Brexit can't be stopped. I don't think there's any mechanism to stop it apart from crawling back to to EU. They would then have to vote to allow us to stop the process and will probably want us to give up our veto, our rebate, join the Euro etc.

Edited June 9, 2017 by Ommadawn

[Fingerbobs]

8 minutes ago, baggienick68 said:

Unfortunately now they have triggered Article 50 we are on a tight timescale.

But it's an unprecedented process. It can be suspended if an amenable approach is made. This is a new mandate from the people and the EU will understand. 

Edited June 9, 2017 by Fingerbobs

[Deaf Nobby Burton]

Without a shadow of a doubt article 50 could be reversed without issue. The EU are not idiots. Although in reality it will still happen but it will be the most mild Brexit Imaginable.

[russycarps]

I can report a lot of glum faces in the City of London

 

[eFestivals]

27 minutes ago, Fingerbobs said:

I think it's alright for now. No hard Brexit that's for sure. In fact they might as well suspend the whole process for a couple of years while the dust settles then kick it into the long grass. The tories will self combust with in-fighting over the next few weeks at least so no way can we negotiate anything at the moment. 

people have been saying the tories will self-combust due to infighting for the last two years. First it was going to be during the EUref, then it was going to be after the EUref, and then just about everyone missed that the election was called precisely because of (behind the scenes) tory infighting and decided to believe it was about other things.

They're currently in a big big bind, but they're normally smart enough as a party to not make their own situation worse. 

[Guest]

How about Corbyn's future. He's had a big success but still failed to win the election with a manifesto promising the world and up against a Tory party that had a nightmare campaign who are unlikely to make the same mistakes next time. Might a different Labour leader have won last night?

Edited June 9, 2017 by Ommadawn

[HalfAnIdiot]

9 minutes ago, russycarps said:

I can report a lot of glum faces in the City of London

 

I always suspected you were a city trader in real life :-)

 

[Lucy92]

3 minutes ago, Ommadawn said:

How about Corbyn's future. He's had a big success but still failed to win the election with a manifesto promising the world and up against a Tory party that had a nightmare campaign who are unlikely to make the same mistakes next time. Might a different Labour leader have won last night?

I asked a friend about this. What will it take to get a labour majority when this was seen as an amazing campaign from labour and an awful campaign from the conservatives 

[st dan]

What I'm taking particular joy in this morning is the fact that if Teresa could have been arsed to show up to a live TV debate, or they could have been bothered to include some badic costings in their manifesto, then I'm sure they'd have gained the few extra seats they needed for the majority. 

I mean, what on earth were they expecting?They really are a bunch of clueless idiots. 

[Newtoit]

40 minutes ago, Lucy92 said:

I don't really see this as a result worth celebrating. A hung parliament is the worst thing for the country at the moment! 

 

Not only this, but I heard one of the commentators reporting on Boris's speech (in the the middle of last night some time) mooting that they thought he was already making his plans for the (almost) inevitable leadership contest in a few months time...

A hung parliament and Boris at the helm... 

As someone else said, *interesting times.

(*interesting this context spelt 'shit')

[eastynh]

I have not felt this way since the end of Rogue One. The baddies still have the Death Star, there will be some casualities but it will not be in vain as there is now some hope, when before there was none.

[stuartbert two hats]

I can't see either of the main leaders going. Corbyn has pulled off an extraordinary result given where the polls started when the election was called. His position is more secure than ever.

And the Prime Minister really does have to crack on with negotiating with leaving the EU. A Tory leadership election now? I just can't see it. I really doubt she'll make it to the next election though.

[cidy]

Still dont get why she called an election and then come out with unpopular  policies that would irate the pensioners who were a on there side.

Scrapping free school meals and introducing the dementia tax????

[st dan]

Just now, Lucy92 said:

I asked a friend about this. What will it take to get a labour majority when this was seen as an amazing campaign from labour and an awful campaign from the conservatives 

They were still reeling from a disasterous 2015 campaign. Two short years (most of which was was dominated a smear campaign against Corbyn) was not enough time for them to gain enough momentum to force a swing to a majority - this was much more than they were expecting. 

What it does do if give them a great footing for the next election, and I'm pretty sure they can force a majority in 2022. Although who knows what will be left of this great island by then. 

[stuartbert two hats]

3 minutes ago, Lucy92 said:

I asked a friend about this. What will it take to get a labour majority when this was seen as an amazing campaign from labour and an awful campaign from the conservatives 

Having a Labour party that is genuinely working as a team for more than a few weeks.

[russycarps]

8 minutes ago, HalfAnIdiot said:

I always suspected you were a city trader in real life :-)

 

You've got to immerse yourself in the entrails of capitalism to bring it down....or something.

 

[Guest]

2 minutes ago, st dan said:

They were still reeling from a disasterous 2015 campaign. Two short years (most of which was was dominated a smear campaign against Corbyn) was not enough time for them to gain enough momentum to force a swing to a majority - this was much more than they were expecting. 

What it does do if give them a great footing for the next election, and I'm pretty sure they can force a majority in 2022. Although who knows what will be left of this great island by then. 

There will certainly be an election well before 2022

Edited June 9, 2017 by Ommadawn

[p.pete]

My thoughts...

Pre-election - this was one that would be OK to lose, in some respects.  There's going to be no glory for whichever party leads us through Brexit, the most likely outcome is a bloody nose and little thanks.

What happened - a fantastic result from where Labour were, a great night, swing in the right direction, but they lost.  Not such a bad thing considering my pre-election thoughts, but future gains needed (maybe some will come via conservatives carrying the brexit can).  So LOTS of work to be done.  Feel free to disentangle why people voted why they voted - too many options (voted for characters, May vs Corbyn; voted to endorse brexit; voted for a type of brexit; voted to reject or in spite of brexit; voted for social reform; voted to stay in the UK (scotland)) for clarity for my mind - spin away.

Where Labour are - 

• Media is biased against them - this won't change*
• Labour is split internally - this can change
• Corbyn will lose votes (Neils favorite subject - true of course, don't need to dwell on it here)
• Corbyn can persuade other voters

Where next - Leftwards or Rightwards?  For my mind, once the country has voted a certain way two or three consecutive times, their likely to start listening to alternative voices for subsequent elections - very seldom does the same party succeed 4+ times in a row.  Blair arrived at a perfect time for this, he energised (and largely united) the party, got a youth vote, and presumably did some great things that Neil has alluded to in the past.  But he also dragged the party hugely to the right - and i'll suggest that was unnecessary given there'd already been several consecutive tory governments and a lot of people would have been ready for something alternative.  Maybe Labour needed to pull itself back from the dead after Michael Foot?  Is a shift to the right needed again?  Can we say there's been several elections where Labour have been tory-lite, and turning away from that this has been there best performance for quite some time?  Can Corbyn succeed?  Does he have a mandate to try to more firmly align the party behind the ideals of the current manifesto?

I'd suggest Corbyn is still an unlikely election winner - at least without a more supportive PLP behind him - but that following last night (and two party elections) he has a mandate to maintain the reigns of the party at least.  Some pundits are suggesting once the torys change their leader the next step is an Autumn election - if that's the timeline then Labour can't be found in the middle of another lengthy bout of naval gazing.  

I've no idea whether what happens next is positive for the country - but hopefully it's more positive with reduced tory seats!

* It was nice to see the Guardian belatedly put some proper weight behind Labour, hopefully they feel their continued existence is worth pursuing this further.