Don't vote Tory

[eFestivals]

7 minutes ago, Brave Sir Robin said:

Youth turnout was massively up. From about 40% to about 70%.

Yup.

The what caused it is open to debate. Was it Corbyn or was it brexit?

How the votes have been cast against how the Euref went, the stronger suggestion at the moment is brexit rather than Corbyn.

[windy_miller]

1 minute ago, eFestivals said:

The what caused it is open to debate. Was it Corbyn or was it brexit?

It was probably a bit of both to be honest.

[squirrelarmy]

2 minutes ago, russycarps said:

I'm surprised no one seems to be concerned about the power the DUP will wield.

I knew they were anti-abortion, anti-gay marriage, homophobic, protestant fundamentalists with paramilitary links, but I didnt know they were also climate change deniers and creationists who believe the giants causeway is the leftovers from Noah's flood.

God help us!

[Brave Sir Robin]

1 minute ago, eFestivals said:

Yup.

The what caused it is open to debate. Was it Corbyn or was it brexit?

How the votes have been cast against how the Euref went, the stronger suggestion at the moment is brexit rather than Corbyn.

If Brexit was the main cause, the LDs would have done a lot better. I know you really don't like Corbyn, but he clearly got a lot of young people's attention.

[eFestivals]

Just now, russycarps said:

I'm surprised no one seems to be concerned about the power the DUP will wield.

I knew they were anti-abortion, anti-gay marriage, homophobic, protestant fundamentalists with paramilitary links, but I didnt know they were also climate change deniers and creationists who believe the giants causeway is the leftovers from Noah's flood.

God help us!

they're in a bind, cos their voters views are quite different to the party line.

Their support is still tribally based (like NI politics is in general), but perhaps that's about to come crashing down, depending what they do here. 

The end of tribal politics in NI might be one of the bright lights from what is otherwise quite a fuck-up.

[Heather90]

1 minute ago, Brave Sir Robin said:

If Brexit was the main cause, the LDs would have done a lot better. I know you really don't like Corbyn, but he clearly got a lot of young people's attention.

A lot of young people have been burned by Lib Dems before. I assume their votes went largely to Labour 

[eFestivals]

5 minutes ago, Brave Sir Robin said:

If Brexit was the main cause, the LDs would have done a lot better. I know you really don't like Corbyn, but he clearly got a lot of young people's attention.

It's fuck all to do with "don't like".
(am really really bored of tiny minds )

And yep, he got a lot of young people's attention, but again, 'why?' needs to be considered. Some of it is very likely to be about free uni, but free uni was on offer before without creating anything like the same turnout (in fact, there was a bigger youth turnout for the no-free-uni of Miliband than there was for the free-uni of Clegg). Then again, there was a bigger free-uni offer from Corbyn than Clegg.

There's no getting away from the fact that the swings in seats were closely related to which way that place voted in the EUref.

And while the LDs offered staying in, as a country we seem to have moved a long way beyond that, with just about everyone accepting we're leaving (till now, anyway).

So i don't think it's too surprising that remaining wasn't a huge vote attractor ... and then when you add in the Momentum-driven campaign to smear Farron as anti-gay, it turned youngsters away from that.

Edited June 9, 2017 by eFestivals

[Deaf Nobby Burton]

Surely one of the biggest reasons is UKIP voters voting Labour which nobody expected? With the only explanation that they wanted Brexit but not hard Brexit.

[zahidf]

 

But The DUP wants a soft Brexit.

 

May really screwed up. Lets chat about that more☺

[elias]

4 minutes ago, eFestivals said:

 

And yep, he got a lot of young people's attention, but again, 'why?' needs to be considered. Some of it is very likely to be about free uni, but free uni was on offer before without creating anything like the same turnout (in fact, there was a bigger youth turnout for the no-free-uni of Miliband than there was for the free-uni of Clegg). Then again, there was a bigger free-uni offer from Corbyn than Clegg.

It's entirely possible that the 'bribe' of free uni was a factor, but wasn't Corbyn energising young people before the manifesto came out? As far as I can make out from my admittedly limited knowledge, younger voters make up a large demographic of people that have attended his rallies and speeches over the last few years. And should we not view this as a very good thing?

[Deaf Nobby Burton]

2 minutes ago, zahidf said:

 

But The DUP wants a soft Brexit.

 

May really screwed up. Lets chat about that more☺

Fuck me this will never end though will it.

[Gooner4900]

Im 19 and have been voting since I could - the main reason i voted Labour was because i could see Corbyn on a seperate level, a more human level than the rest of the politicians. he cares about the youth vote whereas Con's dont give a toss. 

[eFestivals]

4 minutes ago, Deaf Nobby Burton said:

Surely one of the biggest reasons is UKIP voters voting Labour which nobody expected? With the only explanation that they wanted Brexit but not hard Brexit.

I think those people probably voted "fuck you" in the EUref, and not a lot else.

[windy_miller]

I think we are going to see a complete reversal of party stability.

Labour have finally going to get their act together and and acted a single party, united behind Corbyn

The Tories are going to tear themselves apart, in the same way that Labour have been doing for the last few years.

[eFestivals]

1 minute ago, elias said:

It's entirely possible that the 'bribe' of free uni was a factor, but wasn't Corbyn energising young people before the manifesto came out? As far as I can make out from my admittedly limited knowledge, younger voters make up a large demographic of people that have attended his rallies and speeches over the last few years. And should we not view this as a very good thing?

nothing that was showing up much in any polling.

[stuartbert two hats]

3 minutes ago, Deaf Nobby Burton said:

Surely one of the biggest reasons is UKIP voters voting Labour which nobody expected? With the only explanation that they wanted Brexit but not hard Brexit.

Or they always Labour voters who switched their vote temporarily to UKIP to get the EU referendum, but since that was been won, they're more concerned with the other issues Labour were campaigning on.   People are complex, just because someone voted UKIP in the past, it doesn't mean they are single-issue voters.  

I.e. They might not care what kind of Brexit as much as they care about the other differences between the top two parties.

[uscore]

17 minutes ago, eFestivals said:

Yup.

The what caused it is open to debate. Was it Corbyn or was it brexit?

It doesn't sound like it is open to debate for you.

[Bluebella]

9 minutes ago, Brave Sir Robin said:

If Brexit was the main cause, the LDs would have done a lot better. I know you really don't like Corbyn, but he clearly got a lot of young people's attention.

Having someones attention after a few catchy headlines is one thing but do these people really know what he stands for?

This election reminds of some kind of reality show voting contest.

[eFestivals]

Just now, windy_miller said:

I think we are going to see a complete reversal of party stability.

Labour have finally going to get their act together and and acted a single party, united behind Corbyn

The Tories are going to tear themselves apart, in the same way that Labour have been doing for the last few years.

I've seen this comment claiming it's imminent so many times in the last two years that I can't believe it until it happens.

Like it or not, the tories are much more disciplined as a party than Labour.

[zahidf]

I agree with gideon

 

George Osborne’s Evening Standard says May holds office without power. In an editorial the former chancellor’s paper says:

We now have a minority Conservative government that is in office but not in power. Its majority depends on the caprice of 10 Democratic Unionists in Northern Ireland. The DUP does not support some central tenets of the government’s economic and welfare plans. In this topsy-turvy world, the decisions that affect London will now be taken in Belfast. That is not a sustainable position; this paper will subject it to intense scrutiny, starting today.

It also calls for a rethink on Brexit.

Two years ago, the UK stood out as a beacon of political stability and economic success. Two years on from that, voters have both effectively ejected the country from the EU and now given us a Commons that is all but incapable of agreeing a plan to negotiate our exit. That’s a huge challenge. It does, however, offer an opportunity to rethink the hard Brexit that Mrs May intended. At last year’s referendum, voters were only asked one question: should we remain in or leave the European Union? We can respect that outcome without cutting our ties to the single market or leaving the customs union. Out of the chaos of last night, some sanity might emerge.

[windy_miller]

I think most people who went to UKIP in 2015 have now just returned to their previous preferred party.  I'd be interested in seeing the swings comparing 2010 to 2017.

[uscore]

1 minute ago, Bluebella said:

Having someones attention after a few catchy headlines is one thing but do these people really know what he stands for?

This election reminds of some kind of reality show voting contest.

I think of all the criticism you can level at Corbyn, this isn't one of them.  The Labour campaign and manifesto gave some very clear policy suggestsions, which were all picked up by the national media.

[eFestivals]

4 minutes ago, uscore said:

It doesn't sound like it is open to debate for you.

the evidence seems to point to brexit as the bigger factor.

I'm happy to see other evidence, if you have some?

I'm open to debate, but that requires a debate, not meaningless throwaways.

Edited June 9, 2017 by eFestivals

[stuartbert two hats]

Just now, eFestivals said:

I've seen this comment claiming it's imminent so many times in the last two years that I can't believe it until it happens.

Like it or not, the tories are much more disciplined as a party than Labour.

They were almost as bad in the Major/Blair years.  But I agree in this case - I don't see the current Conservative party being split anywhere near as badly as Labour has been in the recent past. 

[uscore]

1 minute ago, eFestivals said:

I've seen this comment claiming it's imminent so many times in the last two years that I can't believe it until it happens.

Like it or not, the tories are much more disciplined as a party than Labour.

Now this is definitely something I agree with.