Don't vote Tory

[eFestivals]

10 minutes ago, bigfurbdogg said:

Some people on this thread need to admit they got it wrong with Corbyn and give him the praise he deserves. 

I'm very happy to admit I got it wrong about the votes he might attract.

I was so happy to admit it that I chose a post of waterfalls' to reply to as my first post today, to show my happiness. There was no hiding by me.

I'm far from happy at being right about him losing.

 

10 minutes ago, bigfurbdogg said:

That waterfalls fella must be well chuffed!

only if failure and more tory govt makes him happy.

Edited June 9, 2017 by eFestivals

[zahidf]

May: I need a stronger majority to lead Brexit talks
UK: you have lost your majority
May: correct. Now as I said, I shall lead Brexit talks

UK: it says here "if I lose 6 seats Jeremy Corbyn will be sitting down to negotiate Brexit" and you've lost 13
May: I AM THE WINNER

[bigfurbdogg]

5 minutes ago, eFestivals said:

only if failure and more tory govt makes him happy.

Obviously he/we are not happy the tories are still in government!  (as you would put it)

But from what was predicted by the polls, the bookies, the so called experts, this is about the absolute best we could have hoped for. Considering all that, he has every right to feel happy.

[p.pete]

3 minutes ago, bigfurbdogg said:

Obviously he/we are not happy the tories are still in government!  (as you would put it)

But from what was predicted by the polls, the bookies, the so called experts, this is about the absolute best we could have hoped for. Considering all that, he has every right to feel happy.

Plus - biggest vote share increase since 19whatever (as above)

Plus - weakly supported by his own PLP (yes, justification exists)

Plus - bias in the media (an imbalance of truths)

He's done brilliant - further progress on the first, a bit of unity on the second, and the media can go and f**k themselves.  Lots to take from the election, valuable lessons, yes they didn't win - but it feels like a win.  None of the social equality pressures are going to go away for the tories, if they lead brexit they won't get thanked for it, and hopefully Kensington will return an endorsement of Labours taxation policies later.

[bigfurbdogg]

Just now, p.pete said:

Plus - biggest vote share increase since 19whatever (as above)

Plus - weakly supported by his own PLP (yes, justification exists)

Plus - bias in the media (an imbalance of truths)

He's done brilliant - further progress on the first, a bit of unity on the second, and the media can go and f**k themselves.  Lots to take from the election, valuable lessons, yes they didn't win - but it feels like a win.  None of the social equality pressures are going to go away for the tories, if they lead brexit they won't get thanked for it, and hopefully Kensington will return an endorsement of Labours taxation policies later.

Exactly, one big bonus to take from all this is that the media (specifically the sun and mail) seem to be losing some of their influence, a lot more social media influence this time. That's what it felt like to me anyway.

[Dark Star]

I'm looking forward to seeing the absolute silence from the press tomorrow on the fact that May has taken up with a party considered by some to be ex-terrorists in order to prop up her government... imagine if Corbyn had done something similar in her position.

[p.pete]

10 minutes ago, bigfurbdogg said:

Exactly, one big bonus to take from all this is that the media (specifically the sun and mail) seem to be losing some of their influence, a lot more social media influence this time. That's what it felt like to me anyway.

I'm unsure about that - I shared prodigiously anything positive, but it mainly felt like I was preaching to the converted.  I guess there'll be sway for some people, but it's not something that can be relied on the future.  Social media is obviously very fast moving, and there's a lot of people willing to spend a lot of money if they can get an edge.  Maybe it helped this time, but I think it had a (slight) negative effect for brexit, and future effects are unpredictable.

Great news regarding the sun and mail though - readership dropping is awesome - we just need to stop the BBC quoting things like 'Boris Johnson said in the sun... blah blah' in their hourly bulletins, as if it were news.

Edited June 9, 2017 by p.pete

[Mouseboy11]

1 hour ago, windy_miller said:

Guardian reports... "The BBC is rowing back on its report that Labour has won Kensington as another recount is due to take place this evening."

It must be ridiculously close.  Probably single figures.

Read this on another forum I frequent 

'A friend of mine has been involved int he Kensington count and says Labour keeps winning it, but only by single digits, so Con keep pushing for recounts. Labour are a bit unhappy as they see it as a historic result that will get less attention tomorrow.'

[Tuna]

Can't the returning officer tell them enough is enough?

[p.pete]

31 minutes ago, p.pete said:

Plus - biggest vote share increase since 19whatever (as above)

Plus - weakly supported by his own PLP (yes, justification exists)

Plus - bias in the media (an imbalance of truths)

He's done brilliant - further progress on the first, a bit of unity on the second, and the media can go and f**k themselves.  Lots to take from the election, valuable lessons, yes they didn't win - but it feels like a win.  None of the social equality pressures are going to go away for the tories, if they lead brexit they won't get thanked for it, and hopefully Kensington will return an endorsement of Labours taxation policies later.

Thinking a bit further about the biggest voteshare increase thing - it really says something about how the party had been run into the ground during and post Blair.  Yes, Blair served a purpose to recapture power, but since then membership continually fell (until it was finally just a few embittered remainers  ).  Labour should never be a Tory-lite party.  If we're to be clear that Corbyn carries toxic baggage, yet still managed "the biggest swing since....", then it should be clear that the party can do better than tory-lite.

Just seen a nice graph showing Labour have gained more actual votes than the Tories?  Great if true.

Edit: that last sentence is totally wrong - tired eyes, sorry everyone.

Edited June 9, 2017 by p.pete

[zahidf]

Another significant ramification of last night's results is the SNP have no safe seats left which makes a Labour majority viable next time.

[FuzzyDunlop]

Interesting stat.,.. (well I found it interesting)

May has more votes than Tony Blair got on 1997

[eFestivals]

34 minutes ago, Dark Star said:

I'm looking forward to seeing the absolute silence from the press tomorrow on the fact that May has taken up with a party considered by some to be ex-terrorists in order to prop up her government... imagine if Corbyn had done something similar in her position.

Different terrorists, innit.

And to be fair, there is a notable difference, because the IRA were attacking the British state, while the 'unionist' terrorists were attacking those who were attacking the British state.

It's the 'disloyalty' angle of Corbyn's past that makes him toxic to those who feel this aspect of him is a big deal, as much as the 'association with terrorists'.

To me it's no big deal, but I don't think it's unreasonable to be a big deal to others, and particularly if 'the troubles' touched their lives in some way. After all, the first job of the leader is protect the state and the people within it.

[p.pete]

1 minute ago, FuzzyDunlop said:

Interesting stat.,.. (well I found it interesting)

May has more votes than Tony Blair got on 1997

What are the comparable populations?

[eFestivals]

15 minutes ago, zahidf said:

Another significant ramification of last night's results is the SNP have no safe seats left which makes a Labour majority viable next time.

Ooooo, that's a bit of good news.

I find it hard to see a Labour govt until they're not likely to be dangled on a nats string.

[FuzzyDunlop]

2 minutes ago, p.pete said:

What are the comparable populations?

Yeah, there are about 9m more people here now!

[The Nal]

36 minutes ago, Dark Star said:

I'm looking forward to seeing the absolute silence from the press tomorrow on the fact that May has taken up with a party considered by some to be ex-terrorists in order to prop up her government... imagine if Corbyn had done something similar in her position.

This guy is gas.

http://unitedirelander.blogspot.ie/2005/11/katrina-was-punishment-for-gays-dup.html?m=1

[bigfurbdogg]

1 minute ago, FuzzyDunlop said:

Yeah, there are about 9m more people here now!

Is that stat not based on vote %, rather than actual votes?

[Deaf Nobby Burton]

5 minutes ago, FuzzyDunlop said:

Interesting stat.,.. (well I found it interesting)

May has more votes than Tony Blair got on 1997

The same as Clinton did vs Trump. But It's no good piling up votes in completely safe seats, but losing some in marginals, the game is seats not votes.

[p.pete]

2 minutes ago, eFestivals said:

It's the 'disloyalty' angle of Corbyn's past that makes him toxic to those who feel this aspect of him is a big deal, as much as the 'association with terrorists'.

To me it's no big deal, but I don't think it's unreasonable to be a big deal to others, and particularly if 'the troubles' touched their lives in some way. After all, the first job of the leader is protect the state and the people within it.

If Corbyn's to stick around for an election in 5 years - huge IF, I think I agree with you that he's old and someone better could be found in that time - is now a good time for him to confront these demons?  I'm not sure how - there was mention of him meeting families affected by the atrocities, sounded cheap in the context of an election, but I'd say that's an absolute minimum at this point.  Going further and condeming IRA actions would probably also be a minimum - and actions of other terrorists obviously.  I'm sure some moral high ground is still open to him while doing this, but he has a hell of a lot of work to do to remedy or appease his situation.

That's purely assuming he stays til the next election, not assuming he will, or trying to say he should - purely if he did, what could he do to improve a poor situation.

[eFestivals]

11 minutes ago, FuzzyDunlop said:

Yeah, there are about 9m more people here now!

of which probably 5M didn't have a vote yesterday.

[zahidf]

15 minutes ago, eFestivals said:

Ooooo, that's a bit of good news.

I find it hard to see a Labour govt until they're not likely to be dangled on a nats string.

Yup. They have a 2 and 21 vote majority! smallest marginal!

 

I am Pissing myself at people who banged on about Corbyn being a terrorist sympathiser having to go cap in hand to the DUP because of theirbown arrogance and hubris

[kingbadger]

21 minutes ago, eFestivals said:

It's the 'disloyalty' angle of Corbyn's past that makes him toxic to those who feel this aspect of him is a big deal, as much as the 'association with terrorists'

Sack Corbyn for being unloyal.....disloyal

[eFestivals]

9 minutes ago, p.pete said:

If Corbyn's to stick around for an election in 5 years - huge IF, I think I agree with you that he's old and someone better could be found in that time - is now a good time for him to confront these demons?  I'm not sure how - there was mention of him meeting families affected by the atrocities, sounded cheap in the context of an election, but I'd say that's an absolute minimum at this point.  Going further and condeming IRA actions would probably also be a minimum - and actions of other terrorists obviously.  I'm sure some moral high ground is still open to him while doing this, but he has a hell of a lot of work to do to remedy or appease his situation.

That's purely assuming he stays til the next election, not assuming he will, or trying to say he should - purely if he did, what could he do to improve a poor situation.

To be fair, the IRA thing has turned out to be as lesser thing than people like me thought it might be. He probably doesn't need to do anything as it's been played as hard as it might be, and there's probably not much more mileage in it. Gestures probably won't change the minds of anyone set against him over that anyway.

His attitudes around defence in general could doing with sharpening up a lot i reckon. That's probably one where he could make a sizeable difference, and i reckon he might have learnt a little bit about tackling these issues via the attacks in the last few weeks too. He needs to display more clarity and certainty in what he says, to avoid coming across as "I'd never in any circumstances bomb anywhere", which is how it looks today.

 

[stuartbert two hats]

7 minutes ago, eFestivals said:

of which probably 5M didn't have a vote yesterday.

But presumably many millions of the population in 1997 didn't have a vote then, but do now.