Don't vote Tory

[p.pete]

9 minutes ago, eFestivals said:

of which probably 5M didn't have a vote yesterday.

97 electorate was 43.7m, this year was 46.9m.  High turnout for both, so not too surprising for someone to get similar total votes to tony.

[eFestivals]

Just now, stuartbert two hats said:

But presumably many millions of the population in 1997 didn't have a vote then, but do now.

the amount of yearly immigrants back then was hugely less.

I'd guess, too, that they were more likely to go the route of getting citizenship, as they didn't have near-citizen rights via other means as the more-recent EU-ers do.

[stuartbert two hats]

2 minutes ago, eFestivals said:

the amount of yearly immigrants back then was hugely less.

I'd guess, too, that they were more likely to go the route of getting citizenship, as they didn't have near-citizen rights via other means as the more-recent EU-ers do.

I thought you were talking about children, forgot about immigrants.

[p.pete]

4 minutes ago, eFestivals said:

His attitudes around defence in general could doing with sharpening up a lot i reckon. That's probably one where he could make a sizeable difference, and i reckon he might have learnt a little bit about tackling these issues via the attacks in the last few weeks too. He needs to display more clarity and certainty in what he says, to avoid coming across as "I'd never in any circumstances bomb anywhere", which is how it looks today.

 

Hopefully Teresa just renews the damn thing, so that part of the question goes away.  After that - again another valuable lesson - that question will come up again.  There's better ways of answering it e.g. my minister has control - I won't be the one to press the button.  Better answers are available.

[srb]

Incredible, but had a hunch this might happen.

Scary that the DUP - whose candidates were endorsed by loyalist paramilitary groups in Belfast - are now effectively in government. As big a collection of right-wing bigoted headcases you are likely to encounter.

May has to go, that is a given. I can't see the Tories wanting another GE in the near future as they must know they will lose next time out. Popular share of the vote is incredible.

Interesting times ahead. The Tory tribute act that was New Labour now gone and the politics of respect, hope and fairness front and centre. Can only be a good thing.

[p.pete]

1 minute ago, srb said:

Incredible, but had a hunch this might happen.

Scary that the DUP - whose candidates were endorsed by loyalist paramilitary groups in Belfast - are now effectively in government. As big a collection of right-wing bigoted headcases you are likely to encounter.

May has to go, that is a given. I can't see the Tories wanting another GE in the near future as they must know they will lose next time out. Popular share of the vote is incredible.

Interesting times ahead. The Tory tribute act that was New Labour now gone and the politics of respect, hope and fairness front and centre. Can only be a good thing.

I wouldn't assume they'd lose - new tory leader will blame May - she will have given them good cause to call another (even less popular) election.  They'll be better prepared and make less mistakes - we were lucky this time - not that Labour can't improve further though.

[FuzzyDunlop]

15 minutes ago, stuartbert two hats said:

But presumably many millions of the population in 1997 didn't have a vote then, but do now.

Me for example! I was 13 in 97

[eFestivals]

15 minutes ago, p.pete said:

Hopefully Teresa just renews the damn thing, so that part of the question goes away.  After that - again another valuable lesson - that question will come up again.  There's better ways of answering it e.g. my minister has control - I won't be the one to press the button.  Better answers are available.

I was more on about the likes of bombing ISIS or not, than nukes (tho he's struggled with the nukes thing too).

To me he gives the impression that he'd never agree to warring. He'll only say that he'd have backed ww2, which is an easy shout within hindsight. If he'd have been alive at the time I've little doubt he'd have been part of the big pacifist campaign back then.

I don't want him to be as quick to war at recent leaders have been, but I do want to feel like he'd be prepared to do it. The likes of ISIS is not going to go away by ignoring them, after all.

(that's not me saying I definitely think we should be bombing them now, to be clear - just that it might be appropriate to).

 

[Homer]

Is it because the Lib Dems were more of a third party back then and look votes from Blair? This was more of a two-horse race.

Edited June 9, 2017 by Homer

[elbongo]

Where would you suggest fighting ISIS? It's disastrous foreign wars and the slaughter of innocent people that started all this. A clear move in the opposite direction is required. And fuck Trident! 

[zahidf]

Labour's vote share is 9.6% up on 2015 - the largest increase from one election to another, for any party, since 1935-1945 (9.8%)

Corbyns achievement is a big one. Could have been bigger, but this is how tight it was

'The Tories were only 4 seats and a mere 287 votes away from a working majority of 322. And 1,688 votes away from a proper majority of 326.

Equally had the Tories won seven fewer seats they couldn't govern even with the DUP - so we were just 2,227 votes from Corbyn being PM.

[eFestivals]

33 minutes ago, elbongo said:

Where would you suggest fighting ISIS? It's disastrous foreign wars and the slaughter of innocent people that started all this. A clear move in the opposite direction is required.

I'm not claiming to have the answer.  I'm recognising that the possible right answer might be bombing them.

And I don't disagree that being too happy to bomb has a lot to do with how things are, tho it's far from the sole reason, and anyway, it's done now. We need to make the right next step where groups like ISIS already exist, rather than endlessly replay how they came to exist.

 

33 minutes ago, elbongo said:

And fuck Trident! 

With you on that one. :)

[eFestivals]

32 minutes ago, zahidf said:

Labour's vote share is 9.6% up on 2015 - the largest increase from one election to another, for any party, since 1935-1945 (9.8%)

Corbyns achievement is a big one. Could have been bigger, but this is how tight it was

The share is up due to the collapse of UKIP as much as anything else - which is something nothing to do with Corbyn, and the voters were going to go somewhere.

All the same he has done well in collecting many of their votes.

Lots of unique or new (facebook) circumstances around the reason for that largest increase since 1945 as well. It's an interesting stat, but not much more.

 

32 minutes ago, zahidf said:

'The Tories were only 4 seats and a mere 287 votes away from a working majority of 322. And 1,688 votes away from a proper majority of 326.

Equally had the Tories won seven fewer seats they couldn't govern even with the DUP - so we were just 2,227 votes from Corbyn being PM.

that assumes that Corbyn could get the votes to be PM. I'm not he could have done, unless he cancelled brexit.

[zahidf]

15 minutes ago, eFestivals said:

The share is up due to the collapse of UKIP as much as anything else - which is something nothing to do with Corbyn, and the voters were going to go somewhere.

All the same he has done well in collecting many of their votes.

Lots of unique or new (facebook) circumstances around the reason for that largest increase since 1945 as well. It's an interesting stat, but not much more.

 

that assumes that Corbyn could get the votes to be PM. I'm not he could have done, unless he cancelled brexit.

He could have promised a second eu referendum to get the SNP and Lib dem votes.

 

May has to change her Brexit approach now cos of the DUP.

[lazyred]

3 minutes ago, zahidf said:

He could have promised a second eu referendum to get the SNP and Lib dem votes.

 

May has to change her Brexit approach now cos of the DUP.

but then they might not have benefitted from theukip collapse. I live in calder valley, tory majority cut from over 5000 to 600. ukip down 8.6% labour up 9.7%, tory up 2.5%

similar changes nearby in in Halifax, Colne valley etc.

Labour is walking a tightrope with brexit they got the ukip voters here and the remianers in cantubury, london etc

 

[Duncan Doughnuts]

31 minutes ago, lazyred said:

I live in calder valley, tory majority cut from over 5000 to 600.

 

 

We were so close to getting rid of this awful man

[The Nal]

1 hour ago, Duncan Doughnuts said:

We were so close to getting rid of this awful man

Now you may have the DUP. You wouldve been better off with a Tory/UKIP coalition. 

[Guest]

4 hours ago, p.pete said:

If Corbyn's to stick around for an election in 5 years - huge IF, I think I agree with you that he's old and someone better could be found in that time - is now a good time for him to confront these demons?  I'm not sure how - there was mention of him meeting families affected by the atrocities, sounded cheap in the context of an election, but I'd say that's an absolute minimum at this point.  Going further and condeming IRA actions would probably also be a minimum - and actions of other terrorists obviously.  I'm sure some moral high ground is still open to him while doing this, but he has a hell of a lot of work to do to remedy or appease his situation.

That's purely assuming he stays til the next election, not assuming he will, or trying to say he should - purely if he did, what could he do to improve a poor situation.

Far too late for that now. If he'd done it a few weeks ago, he could be PM now.

[p.pete]

30 minutes ago, Ommadawn said:

Far too late for that now. If he'd done it a few weeks ago, he could be PM now.

Like I said, cheap and disingenuous a few weeks ago - looking forwards can he improve his position? Far too late now for what? If he can make amends he should do it - assuming he means it and it's not cheap politicking.

Edited June 9, 2017 by p.pete

[Eyebrow]

16 hours ago, Spindles said:

We have!  Canterbury is Red.

I'm so proud of this city! Especially the younger generation who came out and voted their asses off!

Fuck you Brazier! Canterbury is RED for the first time ever. History made!

 

[Duncan Doughnuts]

41 minutes ago, The Nal said:

Now you may have the DUP. You wouldve been better off with a Tory/UKIP coalition. 

He'll fit in well with the DUP....

https://www.theyworkforyou.com/mp/24944/craig_whittaker/calder_valley/divisions?policy=826

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/election-2015-england-32594822

https://politicalscrapbook.net/2014/10/craig-whittaker-mp-my-walk-in-wardrobe-is-same-size-as-nhs-staffroom/

[ghostdancer1]

5 hours ago, eFestivals said:

Different terrorists, innit.

And to be fair, there is a notable difference, because the IRA were attacking the British state, while the 'unionist' terrorists were attacking those who were attacking the British state.

It's the 'disloyalty' angle of Corbyn's past that makes him toxic to those who feel this aspect of him is a big deal, as much as the 'association with terrorists'.

To me it's no big deal, but I don't think it's unreasonable to be a big deal to others, and particularly if 'the troubles' touched their lives in some way. After all, the first job of the leader is protect the state and the people within it.

not true at all.
the vast majority of Loyalist terrorist killings were of ordinary civilians.

of the 1016 deaths they committed:

868 Civilians
14 British Security service members
41 Republican paramilitaries
93 Loyalist paramilitaries

Loyalists killed more civlians during the Troubles than anyone else, including the IRA.

 

Edited June 9, 2017 by ghostdancer1

[bamber]

Can I just say, despite the fact we look like utter clowns to the rest of the world, we are united in one thing in this country, that is the certainty that our democracy is robust and sound. 

The press this week however were beyond the pale. The Sun headline regarding Corbyn and Jihad were criminally obscene.

 

[Anders Krogh]

Ashamed to admit I never knew the Loyalist terrorists existed. From Denmark and it was never reported on (as far as I know), only ever heard about IRA.

[Anders Krogh]

@Bamber as an outsider (though living here), the actual voting result, at least, gives the rest of us hope (as did the French result) that the Brexit/Trump movement is at least halted. Your new government (is it already a thing?) not so much of course.