Don't vote Tory

[Duncan Doughnuts]

Mr Waterfalls, I think you need to try a different approach in your attempts to convince Tory voters to change sides. You may have to acknowledge not everyone is convinced by Jeremy Corbyn - a large swathe of the electorate are very sceptical of his past links to the Irish Republicanism (which he forged independently and without parliamentary approval). Corbyn, in my opinion is also indirectly exaggerating the role he played in the eventual peace process - which, if rumours are to be believed, secretly began under John Major's watch. I also think you have to understand the older voters point of view surrounding the nuclear deterrent - many of these people lived through the Cold War and it could be argued that the threat of MAD kept the superpowers in check and stopped Europe from instigating yet another world war in the 20th Century. Corbyn's refusal to make a clear stance is damaging to him and the Labour Party.

Not all people who vote Tory are stupid/idiots/scum etc... and your brand of name calling and aggressive responding is hardly likely to make them change their minds. Those of us on the left have to keep above the gutter politics employed by the Tories (and their media supporters ). I truly believe that Corbyn hasn't got a cat in hells chance next Thursday however, the foundation Labour are building (by highlighting the damage caused by austerity) will come to fruition at the next general election. It is my opinion that by calling an early election, May has shortened the life of this Tory government by three years......roll on 2022.

[Duncan Doughnuts]

8 minutes ago, waterfalls212434 said:

Tories have sodding Boris Johnson in that position I think corbyn could have selected a member of the wombles as his shadow foreign secretary and it would have looked better then the tory option.

 

Whenever anyone make a valid point of how Labour could improve its position you always find a way to bring the Tories in to it. Boris won two London mayoral elections in a city that overwhelmingly voted to remain and has a very large and healthy Labour support. 

[arcade fireman]

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/theresa-may-ratings-negative-comres-poll-first-time-labour-conservative-jeremy-corbyn-latest-a7771171.html

Interesting here are the approval ratings:

Theresa May favourability score -3

Conservative favourability score -6

 

Jeremy Corbyn favourability score -15

Labour favourability score -5

Corbyn has fought a very good campaign and has managed to improve his favourability score by 18 points. But it's worth noting May outperforms her party in the favourability stakes, whereas Corbyn still underperforms despite how well he's done recently.

Hard not to draw the conclusion Labour may well have won this election under a different leader. Oh well, I guess this time next week is the time for these discussions to start in earnest...

[Duncan Doughnuts]

1 minute ago, arcade fireman said:

Hard not to draw the conclusion Labour may well have won this election under a different leader. Oh well, I guess this time next week is the time for these discussions to start in earnest...

Are you suggesting Corbyn isn't the messiah? Oh dear, I fear you will be on the receiving end of a severe rant from a certain person...

[waterfalls212434]

27 minutes ago, Duncan Doughnuts said:

I think you need to try a different approach in your attempts to convince Tory voters to change sides. You may have

Who ever said I was trying to do that? as mr tory boy above said, no point preaching to the converted. I was just explaining to said tory boy(and im getting rather fed up by the way of going over the same ground because hes to bloody stupid to understand)  why its not just a case of `respecting his viewpoint`....as in this goes far beyond having a different viewpoint but what that viewpoint enables.

Edited June 3, 2017 by waterfalls212434

[waterfalls212434]

14 minutes ago, arcade fireman said:

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/theresa-may-ratings-negative-comres-poll-first-time-labour-conservative-jeremy-corbyn-latest-a7771171.html

Interesting here are the approval ratings:

Theresa May favourability score -3

Conservative favourability score -6

 

Jeremy Corbyn favourability score -15

Labour favourability score -5

Corbyn has fought a very good campaign and has managed to improve his favourability score by 18 points. But it's worth noting May outperforms her party in the favourability stakes, whereas Corbyn still underperforms despite how well he's done recently.

Hard not to draw the conclusion Labour may well have won this election under a different leader. Oh well, I guess this time next week is the time for these discussions to start in earnest...

yeah lets get another passionless wet blanket in charge for the tories to walk over! that worked so well with milliband!(whose level of support by the way corbyn has long since leaped over!) 

Edited June 3, 2017 by waterfalls212434

[waterfalls212434]

8 minutes ago, Duncan Doughnuts said:

Are you suggesting Corbyn isn't the messiah? Oh dear, I fear you will be on the receiving end of a severe rant from a certain person...

oh piss off you flake. you want to debate or you just want to take cheap shots like you work for the fucking daily mail? do one!

[Mr.Tease]

Daily Mails Survation poll is sweeeeeet! Taken after QT which more made more people likely to vote labour, Tories down 6 on 40, Labour up 4 on 39.

 

again, I'll believe it when i see it!

 

huge discrepancies between the polls, seems to be dependent on how much you trust young people to turn out

Edited June 3, 2017 by Mr.Tease

[Duncan Doughnuts]

3 minutes ago, waterfalls212434 said:

oh piss off you flake. you want to debate or you just want to take cheap shots like you work for the fucking daily mail? do one!

Excellent comeback my satirical better.

[waterfalls212434]

http://mailchi.mp/survation/survation-post-debate-poll-cuts-conservative-lead-to-one-1118437

mail on sunday (of all things) poll now puts the tory lead at just 1 point. 

but no corbyns plainly a crap leader, the partys basically running neck and neck with the tories and has gained 20+ polling points in most cases within a month but he doesnt inspire anybody!.....lol I tell you what, other then the early blair years I dont EVER remember when support for labour ran this high or this passionate

[Duncan Doughnuts]

Just now, Mr.Tease said:

Daily Mails Survation poll is sweeeeeet! Taken after QT which more made more people likely to vote labour, Tories down 6 on 40, Labour up 4 on 39.

 

again, I'll believe it when i see it!

Likewise, it would be great, just can't see it happening on Thursday.

[waterfalls212434]

Just now, Duncan Doughnuts said:

Likewise, it would be great, just can't see it happening on Thursday.

another mr negative here......how many of you people are there? this is the best position labour have been in in a long long time and its still all doom and gloom` oh we`ll never do it` `oh it must be bad polls` `weve got no chance`..........thankfuck I dont have your attitude id fucking jump off a bridge in despair! 

[arcade fireman]

3 minutes ago, waterfalls212434 said:

yeah lets get another passionless wet blanket in charge for the tories to walk over! that worked so well with milliband!(whose level of support by the way corbyn has long since leaped over!) 

This is the first election since the 1970s where there hasn't been a third party polling at least 14-15%. I don't think you can draw parallels in vote %. The Tories will probably get their highest share since the days of Thatcher. By your logic does that make May a brilliant leader? 

[Duncan Doughnuts]

Just now, waterfalls212434 said:

another mr negative here......how many of you people are there? this is the best position labour have been in in a long long time and its still all doom and gloom` oh we`ll never do it` `oh it must be bad polls` `weve got no chance`..........thankfuck I dont have your attitude id fucking jump off a bridge in despair! 

Truly hope you are right and Labour triumph next week.

[Mr.Tease]

Any young voters, please turn out on vote- even if you have misgivings with corbyn. If you help swing this election, parties will have to take you into account every election (up until now they assume you don't vote so they don't bother- that's why you tend to get shafted and ignored). If you don't turn out and vote, they will never bothering trying to capture your vote again.

[zahidf]

I still think the Tories will win.

 

However, Corbyn has clearly run a very good campaigm this far. It may not result in a labour govt, but it may mean a tory govt with a smaller majority.

[Babylon sister]

9 hours ago, mcshed said:

If that puts you in the Livingston constituency then don't worry about letting the Tories in they only got 10% last time even with a huge rise they will never win it 

Thanks @mcshed there are some strong unionists around here but you're probably right, not enough to be worried. 

[waterfalls212434]

1 minute ago, arcade fireman said:

This is the first election since the 1970s where there hasn't been a third party polling at least 14-15%. I don't think you can draw parallels in vote %. The Tories will probably get their highest share since the days of Thatcher. By your logic does that make May a brilliant leader? 

how will they! I was just going to post why exactly I feel like labour will win this thing and pay close attention to number 1.

1. Tory core support is and always has been the older generations, they have upset many of them with their manifesto this time around and their u-turns. I have seen many many examples in my personal life and around of elderly people saying they now dont trust may and will not be voting conservative. These are the people the torys NEED to turn out and vote for them to gain the kind of majority the doomsayers seem to be expecting.......that`s not going to happen this time, they've pissed off to many of them. They may still get quite a lot but not nearly as much as they would have had voting for them in past instances from this demographic.

2. Young people are motivated more then ever before, there have been a record numbers of young people registering to vote and getting involved politically in the runup to this election campaign......people say they wont vote? I say they will, the younger generations seem fired up over brexit especially and their futures, that along with labours promises to do a lot for them esp in their manifesto promises around higher education will inspire them to take a side and lets face it....its young people its NOT going to be tory blue in most cases! 

3.Labour NOW actually have a leader who inspires people, who inspires support and passion for the party and its policies, that wasnt the case before, I never saw wet ed milliband holding rallys in front of thousands being cheered every public appearance he made, even making it onstage with the libertines to a massive reception at one points! A lot who didnt vote labour last time didnt not because they liked the Tories but because they felt labour were doing nothing to seperate themselves from the torys, they were `red torys` to use a phrase so there wasn't anything inspiring about or point in voting for them......that is definitely not the case this time.

4.People say oh the polls are wrong, you cant judge it on that, they dont mean anything.....and thats correct to a point when your talking about single polls, but and I think I posted the data about this earlier in the thread the trend in ALL the polls including when the data is weighted show that labour are making significant gains on the tory party and tory support is diminishing also significantly.....now if you were to tell me `this poll is wrong` or `that poll is inaccurate` you may be right.....but when the mean value of ALL the polls is showing a trend that means something, something is happening for that trend to occur and that something is rising labour support!

 

[waterfalls212434]

5 minutes ago, zahidf said:

I still think the Tories will win.

 

However, Corbyn has clearly run a very good campaigm this far. It may not result in a labour govt, but it may mean a tory govt with a smaller majority.

Even the second scenario there would be an incredible achievement given labours position before this election, and it would also be good for us all as it would mean the tory party would have less power and influence.

However as stated above, im going for broke, I think labour will win this, im that confident im going to say I reckon the polls are underestimating things and it may be even easier then suggested.  I think may has utterly tanked this election and her party, shes pissed off their core support, shes shown herself to be utterly inept and to be honest fucking cowardly at times and people have noticed that, even her usual backers in the media have been slating her. I just dont see how the tories could expect to come out of this well.

Edited June 3, 2017 by waterfalls212434

[stuartbert two hats]

31 minutes ago, arcade fireman said:

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/theresa-may-ratings-negative-comres-poll-first-time-labour-conservative-jeremy-corbyn-latest-a7771171.html

Interesting here are the approval ratings:

Theresa May favourability score -3

Conservative favourability score -6

 

Jeremy Corbyn favourability score -15

Labour favourability score -5

Corbyn has fought a very good campaign and has managed to improve his favourability score by 18 points. But it's worth noting May outperforms her party in the favourability stakes, whereas Corbyn still underperforms despite how well he's done recently.

Hard not to draw the conclusion Labour may well have won this election under a different leader. Oh well, I guess this time next week is the time for these discussions to start in earnest...

It's an interesting one. With a more appealing frontman, we could have easily had another manifesto where people would say with a straight face that "they're all the same". The manifesto, the party and the leader are inextricably linked.

[Mr.Tease]

12 minutes ago, waterfalls212434 said:

another mr negative here......how many of you people are there? this is the best position labour have been in in a long long time and its still all doom and gloom` oh we`ll never do it` `oh it must be bad polls` `weve got no chance`..........thankfuck I dont have your attitude id fucking jump off a bridge in despair! 

We're trying to protect ourselves against getting our hopes too high- I'll be absolutely heart broken if tories win a bigger majority, so I'm keeping my expectations low. I've been down this road many times before!

[waterfalls212434]

Just now, Mr.Tease said:

We're trying to protect ourselves against getting our hopes too high- I'll be absolutely heart broken if tories win a bigger majority, so I'm keeping my expectations low. I've been down this road many times before!

I think the `tories winning a bigger majority` option is off the table, theyve lost far to much support for that. even if I was being conservative id say tories might win but the majority would still be reduced.  Polls would be showing the exact opposite to what they currently are if the majority was going to be increased. 

[Mr.Tease]

35 minutes ago, arcade fireman said:

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/theresa-may-ratings-negative-comres-poll-first-time-labour-conservative-jeremy-corbyn-latest-a7771171.html

Interesting here are the approval ratings:

Theresa May favourability score -3

Conservative favourability score -6

 

Jeremy Corbyn favourability score -15

Labour favourability score -5

Corbyn has fought a very good campaign and has managed to improve his favourability score by 18 points. But it's worth noting May outperforms her party in the favourability stakes, whereas Corbyn still underperforms despite how well he's done recently.

Hard not to draw the conclusion Labour may well have won this election under a different leader. Oh well, I guess this time next week is the time for these discussions to start in earnest...

If there had been another labour leader, I doubt we would have had the masss resignations or been down 20, so the Tories would never have called an election. Everything is happening the only way it could to get to this point. I don't think we should jump the gun and make any conclusions for a while- if I'm being honest I have no idea what is happening!

i will say the manifesto was very good and whoever is running the campaign has been a genius (who is it?)

[Mr.Tease]

3 minutes ago, waterfalls212434 said:

I think the `tories winning a bigger majority` option is off the table, theyve lost far to much support for that. even if I was being conservative id say tories might win but the majority would still be reduced.  Polls would be showing the exact opposite to what they currently are if the majority was going to be increased. 

If young people don't show up the Tories will increase their majority considerably! It svery much still on the table

[waterfalls212434]

3 minutes ago, Mr.Tease said:

If young people don't show up the Tories will increase their majority considerably! It svery much still on the table

how will they! theyve lost support! whats not to understand about this? its not just labour have gained support but the tories have lost pleanty of theres! esp among their core voters thats huge.