Don't vote Tory

[babyblade41]

Just now, Mr.Tease said:

I know, but I work with a lot of survivors of childhood sexual abuse, physical abuse, torture, etc etc people can be truly cruel and horrific (beyond which you can imagine), so it's always important for me to remember that people can also be very kind, resilient, caring.

My daughter does the same so can fully understand your feelings...she looks at the positives that comes out when her work is done 

[arcade fireman]

6 minutes ago, eFestivals said:

It has to be acknowledged that he's done remarkably well at closing what was a massive gap that few expected to close by that much at the start.

But can it really be called a good campaign? There's still no suggestion that he might perhaps be ahead, and the tories have had the worst campaign anyone can remember. 

Losing can't be called good when its only winning that makes a difference. Start calling it good if he wins.

I think if you look at the campaign - i.e. what happened over the six weeks it's undeniably been a very strong campaign. To surge in the polls like he has done is something that's quite rare. The reason he's not ahead in the polls is down to a bunch of factors - his past associations, his long held positions on defence/security probably being two of them. But they didn't originate in this campaign. 

As regards his leadership, I'd agree with this statement. But a poor leader can run a good election campaign for six weeks and vice versa. 

[Guest]

Corbyn also had the advantage of being able to 'promise the earth' without any real expectation (at the time) of winning. If he does win. it will be interesting to see how many of his manifesto promises he'll be able to keep.

Edited June 4, 2017 by Ommadawn

[eFestivals]

2 minutes ago, Mr.Tease said:

I think it can, just as Teresa May can run a horrifically bad campaign and still win- doesn't make her campaign good.

Ha! I can't disagree with that. Fair enough.

 

2 minutes ago, Mr.Tease said:

Certainly stuff we can take from it (though I won't have any idea until the dust has settled)

Hmmm, that's something entirely different again, I'd say. It's one thing putting forwards a platform of nice things that's popular and gets support, but another thing entirely to be able to do them.

Blair was very careful not to over-promise, and while it was frustrating to those who thought he could do more (like me at that time), he succeeded in getting elected twice more.

But guess what he DID over-promise on? An EUref - and yes, I know that was specifically about 'the EU constitution' which never happened, but an awful lot of people felt they'd been stitched up over it, (tho ultimately by Brown) and look where we are now.

(my feeling is, even now, that would have been won comfortably ... tho I'm guessing Labour party thinking is that it wouldn't have and that's why it didn't happen).

[eFestivals]

9 minutes ago, arcade fireman said:

I think if you look at the campaign - i.e. what happened over the six weeks it's undeniably been a very strong campaign. To surge in the polls like he has done is something that's quite rare. The reason he's not ahead in the polls is down to a bunch of factors - his past associations, his long held positions on defence/security probably being two of them. But they didn't originate in this campaign. 

I've already acknowledged that I'm being unfair to not recognise it as good (as a separate thing to the result), and particularly when I'm recognising May's as bad.

But those factors you mention (along with others) were always going to impact into a campaign, and for many (me included) they're something which I've believed would make it impossible to win - because he's with minority opinion on too many things which others feel strongly about from the opposite direction, no matter what other good things might have been on offer.

My own take of the polls (as they stand today, anyway) is that May is still going to increase her majority because some are still showing a stonking gap and I think the result will fall somewhere between the best and worst, tho i can certainly say I no longer think it's impossible he'll win. 

[Mr.Tease]

2 minutes ago, eFestivals said:

Ha! I can't disagree with that. Fair enough.

 

Hmmm, that's something entirely different again, I'd say. It's one thing putting forwards a platform of nice things that's popular and gets support, but another thing entirely to be able to do them.

Blair was very careful not to over-promise, and while it was frustrating to those who thought he could do more (like me at that time), he succeeded in getting elected twice more.

But guess what he DID over-promise on? An EUref - and yes, I know that was specifically about 'the EU constitution' which never happened, but an awful lot of people felt they'd been stitched up over it, (tho ultimately by Brown) and look where we are now.

(my feeling is, even now, that would have been won comfortably ... tho I'm guessing Labour party thinking is that it wouldn't have and that's why it didn't happen).

It's certainly been an interesting and bewildering election!

I'm very interested to see if having a large membership makes any difference- certainly my area, I've never seen so many labour posters in peoples homes and in gardens and canvassers out and about and in town centres, train stations, etc- will they be able to boost their voter turnout? Also interesting is the youth vote- if they don't turn out much higher this election when they've been specifically targeted, then parties will continue to not bother courting them in future. if they do show up in droves, then parties will have to take them into account in future elections. I know those are side issues, but I've always been curios about them.

Labour are stuffed now with this second attack- people will probably flock back to May, campaigning will be suspended for a few days and by the time campaigning has resumed it will be polling day.

[Mr.Tease]

Just now, eFestivals said:

I've already acknowledged that I'm being unfair to not recognise it as good (as a separate thing to the result), and particularly when I'm recognising May's as bad.

But those factors you mention (along with others) were always going to impact into a campaign, and for many (me included) they're something which I've believed would make it impossible to win - because he's with minority opinion on too many things which others feel strongly about from the opposite direction, no matter what other good things might have been on offer.

My own take of the polls (as they stand today, anyway) is that May is still going to increase her majority because some are still showing a stonking gap and I think the result will fall somewhere between the best and worst, tho i can certainly say I no longer think it's impossible he'll win. 

That will be the kick in the balls- all this, and we'll wake up to see an increased Tory majority- I can't take it!

[arcade fireman]

5 minutes ago, eFestivals said:

I've already acknowledged that I'm being unfair to not recognise it as good (as a separate thing to the result), and particularly when I'm recognising May's as bad.

But those factors you mention (along with others) were always going to impact into a campaign, and for many (me included) they're something which I've believed would make it impossible to win - because he's with minority opinion on too many things which others feel strongly about from the opposite direction, no matter what other good things might have been on offer.

My own take of the polls (as they stand today, anyway) is that May is still going to increase her majority because some are still showing a stonking gap and I think the result will fall somewhere between the best and worst, tho i can certainly say I no longer think it's impossible he'll win. 

True, but I think the fact he's managed to pick up so many voters these last 6 weeks despite these glaring issues highlights how good a campaign he's had (as opposed to how good a leader he is overall). I always thought this election was lost the moment Corbyn was elected leader for those same reasons - but he's coming a lot closer to proving me wrong than I thought. 

Unless Labour force a hung Parliament, I think he should go. And I still think we'll see a bigger Tory majority too. 

With a hung Parliament May would be on the ropes and so I think a united party attacking the Tories would be most important, so I'd support Corbyn staying in those circumstances even if he didn't win the election. 

[arcade fireman]

13 minutes ago, Mr.Tease said:

Labour are stuffed now with this second attack- people will probably flock back to May, campaigning will be suspended for a few days and by the time campaigning has resumed it will be polling day.

Traditional wisdom says left wing parties suffer whatever happens. If they're in power - like in France - they get blamed for not being stronger on national security. And if they're not then people still look to the right wing government as their better bet to keep them safe.

It's hardly fair but you'd think Corbyn's Question Time appearance together with being grilled on national security may have come at the worst possible time. But then Manchester didn't affect things and that was even more shocking than this. 

[Babylon sister]

http://johnpilger.com/articles/terror-in-britain-what-did-the-prime-minister-know

 

This is an interesting read

[Mr.Tease]

https://www.twitter.com/OwenJones84/status/871344774741151744

Quite a scathing attack

[Babylon sister]

8 minutes ago, Mr.Tease said:

https://www.twitter.com/OwenJones84/status/871344774741151744

Quite a scathing attack

And not before time. 

[Mr.Tease]

Turns out that survation poll yesterday for the mail (showing a 1pt tory lead) was a crock of poo- for reasons known only to themselves, the pollsters switched from telephone to online sampling, which usually disproportionately favours Labour- if you applied their QT viewing percentages, 19 million people watched QT! 

People buying May's line hook line and sinker (and forgetting she was home secretary when she rails that "we" have been too tolerant of extremism and cut police number despite them warning her of the consequences). I think people will take a much more hard line attitude following this attack than they did the Manchester one. 

[Mr.Tease]

4 minutes ago, Babylon sister said:

And not before time. 

Quite sureal her railing against the approach to terrorism up til now when she was in charge of it and warned about it!

Doubt there's much of anything  she could have done to stop it, but she still has a cheek

[Babylon sister]

8 minutes ago, Mr.Tease said:

Quite sureal her railing against the approach to terrorism up til now when she was in charge of it and warned about it!

Doubt there's much of anything  she could have done to stop it, but she still has a cheek

She's too involved in it to stop it. 

[Mr.Tease]

35 minutes ago, Babylon sister said:

http://johnpilger.com/articles/terror-in-britain-what-did-the-prime-minister-know

 

This is an interesting read

Wouldn't surprise me at all if true, the West has been pursuing a "the enemy of my enemy is my friend" policy for decades and usually with disastrous outcomes. Taliban in Afghanistan to Most recently Cameron proposed it when he wanted to intervene in Syria (calling on  us to support all non-assad and non ISIS groups to unite and fight- think a big chunk of them are Al queda!) they never learn. The enemy of your enemy is using you and will screw you over once they have what they need. 

[Babylon sister]

16 minutes ago, Mr.Tease said:

Wouldn't surprise me at all if true, the West has been pursuing a "the enemy of my enemy is my friend" policy for decades and usually with disastrous outcomes. Taliban in Afghanistan to Most recently Cameron proposed it when he wanted to intervene in Syria (calling on  us to support all non-assad and non ISIS groups to unite and fight- think a big chunk of them are Al queda!) they never learn. The enemy of your enemy is using you and will screw you over once they have what they need. 

I think Corbyn is your only hope. I hope the voters in England see sense on Thursday. 

[Mr.Tease]

26 minutes ago, Babylon sister said:

I think Corbyn is your only hope. I hope the voters in England see sense on Thursday. 

You'd hope, but I think we're stuffed! 

[Babylon sister]

9 minutes ago, Mr.Tease said:

You'd hope, but I think we're stuffed! 

It doesn't bear thinking about! It's going to be a long night on Thursday. Best get stocked up on munchies to keep me going 

[Mr.Tease]

9 minutes ago, Babylon sister said:

It doesn't bear thinking about! It's going to be a long night on Thursday. Best get stocked up on munchies to keep me going 

 

[Babylon sister]

1 minute ago, Mr.Tease said:

 

Yes let's 

[zahidf]

 

[Mr.Tease]

Corbyn with a good speech- accusing May of suppressing a report showing Saudi Arabia funding of Isis, and attacking her cuts to the police numbers, and her claims that they were crying wolf. saying we can't defend ourselves on the cheap.

Edited June 4, 2017 by Mr.Tease

[Mr.Tease]

16 minutes ago, zahidf said:

 

Is that definitely legit?

[waterfalls212434]

Video shot at hustings in home sec amber rudds constituency....the bloke speaking is an independent who when the topic of terrorism came up started speaking against tory arms sales to the saudis, now watch at 0.31-amber rudd hands the chairman of the discussion a note......and suddenly the mic is taken away from the guy speaking.

Tory censorship for all to see, caught on camera, if your not disgusted by this you clearly have no concept of what a democracy is meant to be........this was a pre election husting, she basically had someone shut down the views of a candidate running against her, wrong on so many levels!

Needs to be shared far and wide, utter contempt for free speech and democracy shown by the home secretary of all people. Guess the truth hurts her eh?

Oh and in relation to my post from last night, the story of my local mps contempt for the same values has now reached the media so im comfortable in sharing,....the story including video is at http://evolvepolitics.com/watch-voters-outraged-tory-mp-tells-cornwall-hustings-shes-really-pleased-foodbanks/ Its even worse then I thought on watching it last night, at one point she actually tells people to `ignore the views` of the people shes pointing at who are criticising her.......because apparently shes only working for people who support her.....obviously 

pay close attention to the video at the bottom of that page, another questioner being told they should `sit down` for questioning her.

vile the lot of them, utter contempt for the values we are supposed to hold dear.

Edited June 4, 2017 by waterfalls212434