Don't vote Tory

[Dyceloon]

2 minutes ago, EasyUserName said:

Nicola isn't *that* grumpy ... (Well, she does seem to be... )

Hey that girls smartend up. Was a time you couldnt tell her from Alex Salmond ,,,wait a minute they are never seen in the same room....

[EasyUserName]

1 minute ago, blackred said:

Vote, vote, vote people. Even if it's for the Torys, vote for whatever you believe in - it's the single most important right you have (at least it will be in 5 years time).

Look on the bright side everyone, with the rate Theresa May u-turns I expect we will be in the euro and schengen by this time next year! (Not sure that would be great either, but you know - better than the alternative)

It's weird - I grew up with the concept of a fine if you didn't vote. I'm not sure it's the answer as unless to its own weird behaviour , but it certainly forced people out.

[EasyUserName]

6 minutes ago, Dyceloon said:

...

Hey, as an off-topic ... Your avitar and Aberdeen? Nice, they shou!d form a political party!

[Dyceloon]

Haha , To honest at heart for that game

Yes local Dyce lad ,who likes his Bdog :-) you from same parish?

[EasyUserName]

In afraid not even close, but I like the beer & I've spent some time in the city. I admire the way they've turned a bloody good beer into a cult (no offence) hence the political party comment (I still but the beer - I'd vote for them too I imagine!)

[Dyceloon]

19 minutes ago, EasyUserName said:

In afraid not even close, but I like the beer & I've spent some time in the city. I admire the way they've turned a bloody good beer into a cult (no offence) hence the political party comment (I still but the beer - I'd vote for them too I imagine!)

taking some down somerset way. welcome to join us for a tinnie or two . You going to the Efest meet ?

[Babylon sister]

Hi everyone, I've enjoyed dipping in and out of this thread over the past couple of weeks, thank you for your discussions and thought provoking comments. Good luck for today,  I hope people get out and use their vote, and that it's a good outcome for all . I'm on the Count for West Lothian, it's going to be a long night but it'll be exciting seeing the results come in. Love to all xx

[eFestivals]

Don't vote tory, I implore you.

But wouldn't it have all been much better if there was a Labour party that had a chance of winning? Self-indulgence is what is going to make Labour lose.

Me, I want things to be made better, I don't want to polish my badge of self-righteousness. That does fuck all to help people.

[zahidf]

 

Interesting. Whilst i want Labour to win as many seats as possible, ill make an exception for Kate 'campaigning and take photos with nigel farage' hooey. She deserves to lose

[Mr.Tease]

7 hours ago, Mattty said:

Can't sleep. Worried about the tories.

Yep, it's really going to depress me, I've been anxious about it for days. I've done what I can- voted, donated, persuaded friends and family to vote. Can't canvass or knock on doors due to the work I do. Looking at the tory press front pages, it depresses me even more- they'll all be smug and emboldened for years. 

[Mr.Tease]

18 minutes ago, eFestivals said:

Don't vote tory, I implore you.

But wouldn't it have all been much better if there was a Labour party that had a chance of winning? Self-indulgence is what is going to make Labour lose.

Me, I want things to be made better, I don't want to polish my badge of self-righteousness. That does fuck all to help people.

Do you really think we'd be in the lead with Andy Burnham at the helm though? I mean that genuinely. I absolutely agree it would be better to win but that's not the same thing as simply being a Labour moderate. 

 

[Mr.Tease]

8 hours ago, Teddington said:

The Social Care policy has still lost my vote.  Can't hand on heart vote for a party with this policy

 

 

Yep, I really don't understand conservative voters voting for this, I would have thought it would have been a more fundamental issue for them, as it is for you. 

[Guest]

6 hours ago, Dyceloon said:

Hey that girls smartend up. Was a time you couldnt tell her from Alex Salmond ,,,wait a minute they are never seen in the same room....

Yuk ..... That's my day ruined.

[eFestivals]

1 minute ago, Mr.Tease said:

Do you really think we'd be in the lead with Andy Burnham at the helm though? I mean that genuinely. I absolutely agree it would be better to win but that's not the same thing as simply being a Labour moderate. 

 

would he be? I've no idea.

But Corbyn always carried too much baggage to be able to attract the votes needed for victory, and starting flawed only ensures flawed.

I fully accept that Corbyn has done much better than many (including me) thought he might do (tho I reckon he's got May to thank for a lot of that), but at no point at all was anything suggesting him as ahead (and suddenly even yougov is showing similar votes shares to the other polls). His 'success' (to this point, anyway) has been a lesser success than Miliband.

Simple fact is that the electorate are socially conservative, and that's the only electorate there is to work with for victory. Pretending something different only leads to failure.

[Tartan_Glasto]

I'm pretty confident Tories are going to win. Then, much like Brexit, everyone that voted for them will suddenly be ashamed and go quiet. Everyone else will be left wondering "Who the fuck voted for it then?"

Personally, if you feel you're doing alright and just care about yourself then go ahead and vote Tories.

However, if you care about your country as a whole and the generations to come after you, then please vote anyone other than Tories. 

[Mr.Tease]

8 minutes ago, eFestivals said:

would he be? I've no idea.

But Corbyn always carried too much baggage to be able to attract the votes needed for victory, and starting flawed only ensures flawed.

I fully accept that Corbyn has done much better than many (including me) thought he might do (tho I reckon he's got May to thank for a lot of that), but at no point at all was anything suggesting him as ahead (and suddenly even yougov is showing similar votes shares to the other polls). His 'success' (to this point, anyway) has been a lesser success than Miliband.

Simple fact is that the electorate are socially conservative, and that's the only electorate there is to work with for victory. Pretending something different only leads to failure.

And I don't disagree, but the problem has been the vmoderates' have been unable to field a viable candidate - it's not enough just to be from that ideological wing, they need to have qualities too.

Personally, I think the PLP and membership should do this properly - sort out a plan to have David Miliband (who I can't stand politically, but at least he seems like a viable candidate unlike most of the current PLP 'moderates') take over- keep Corbyn for a year or two while you wait for a bi-election for Miliband, by that point May will have crashed and burned out of the brexit talks and I suspect they'll be a tory leadership contest. 

[Mr.Tease]

11 minutes ago, Tartan_Glasto said:

I'm pretty confident Tories are going to win. Then, much like Brexit, everyone that voted for them will suddenly be ashamed and go quiet. Everyone else will be left wondering "Who the fuck voted for it then?"

Personally, if you feel you're doing alright and just care about yourself then go ahead and vote Tories.

However, if you care about your country as a whole and the generations to come after you, then please vote anyone other than Tories. 

See, I don't think even that applies this election - those people are voting to potentially lose hundreds of thousands in inheritance, plus I do genuinely believe the tories are going to be disasterous in these brexit talks - their stance, their ineptitude, we'll end up with no deal. That will trigger another recession when we're already cut to the bone and in horrific debt.

They've called this election to get out of the no tax rises and NI rises promise, so those people will likely face a hike in those at some point.

I just don't see what the tories are offering them? Comprehensive schools? Fox hunting? Dementia tax? Run down NHS, run down schools for their kids? Tuition fees and debt for their kids? 

[eFestivals]

Just now, Mr.Tease said:

the problem has been the vmoderates' have been unable to field a viable candidate

or alternatively, the members weren't prepared to accept a viable candidate, preferring self-indulgence over victory.

There were viable candidates. Burnham & Cooper would have been, for example. They are individuals who would be acceptable to those who cannot bring themselves to vote for Corbyn, that segment of the electorate from which victory is possible.

(Just imagine how well Cooper would have taken on May, for example, while Corbyn missed open-goal after open-goal).

There's so many factors around this election, tho, that direct comparison just isn't possible. I'm well aware that with Cooper or Burnham Labour might still be for remaining in the EU and that might have caused a bigger loss, but then again with them as leader we might not be heading out of the EU in the first place, nor having an election right now.

I remain convinced, tho, that everything of where we are tumbles from that initial flawed self-indugent choice of Corbyn. Everything about it pointed to failure, and at the time of his election huge numbers who supported him were happy to say "I don't care if he fails".

They've got what they said they wanted, yet they seem to care about failure after all - far too late. 

[eFestivals]

5 minutes ago, Mr.Tease said:

I don't think even that applies this election - those people are voting to potentially lose hundreds of thousands in inheritance

When socialism is about defending hoarded wealth and undeserved income, something is very very fucked.

 

[babyblade41]

As you know I'm not a silent Tory and I'm either brave or stupid to dip my toe in here the last couple of weeks especially of some abuse from certain members, but even that is refreshing as we are all lucky enough to live in a society where we can do that without fear of imprisonment or worse .

I'm certainly  not a selfish and uncaring person by any stretch but I look at things from a different angle from some .

 

I think we all believe in the same outcome it's the how we get there which is the disagreement . 

I think JC has had great campaign management and if he doesn't win now that must tell you something about his leadership and top brass standing by the side of him.... a loss is a loss no matter how good the battle or how close the result .

Interesting to see on a few poll statistics  (how true I don't know, but listening to Radio 5 yesterday seemed to be the trend ) The 18-25's were clear for a Labour win.... 30-45 pretty much even Stevens  and 45 and above resounding Tory ( my age ranges might be a little off by a year or two as my memory isn't great with statistics 

If all the youngsters go out and vote then I can quite easily see a labour win , but that would depend if it's a poor turn out from  older voters.  IMO the older voters are less likely not to turn out and the younger ones could possibly say one thing and do the other 

Who knows but this time tomorrow the country will have decided who will take us through the next few years.

I wish all of you all the best and  a long and fruitful life with as few problems along the way as humanly possible . Enjoy the festival and you never know you might be stood next to me without ever knowing  ( I don't have horns honest) 

All we can do is cast our vote and be thankful we have the right to live in a democracy xxx

[eFestivals]

6 minutes ago, Mr.Tease said:

I just don't see what the tories are offering them?

Someone who hasn't sided with terrorists against the country they say they want to lead?

Someone who recognises the real world and it's real problems, rather than saying magic can fix it all for free?

Even now your self-indulgence is making you blind to what others think.

[Mr.Tease]

Just now, eFestivals said:

or alternatively, the members weren't prepared to accept a viable candidate, preferring self-indulgence over victory.

There were viable candidates. Burnham & Cooper would have been, for example. They are individuals who would be acceptable to those who cannot bring themselves to vote for Corbyn, that segment of the electorate from which victory is possible.

(Just imagine how well Cooper would have taken on May, for example, while Corbyn missed open-goal after open-goal).

There's so many factors around this election, tho, that direct comparison just isn't possible. I'm well aware that with Cooper or Burnham Labour might still be for remaining in the EU and that might have caused a bigger loss, but then again with them as leader we might not be heading out of the EU in the first place, nor having an election right now.

I remain convinced, tho, that everything of where we are tumbles from that initial flawed self-indugent choice of Corbyn. Everything about it pointed to failure, and at the time of his election huge numbers who supported him were happy to say "I don't care if he fails".

They've got what they said they wanted, yet they seem to care about failure after all - far too late. 

Burnham and Cooper weren't viable candidates - I think at the time you said the best result might be Corbyn if he then drops dead a few months later, so I'm pretty sure at the time you saw that.

You can keep with the 'Corbyn voters are self indulgent line' , but I don't think it's accurate and is over simplifying- we need some changes in the PLP, we have a dearth of talent and had a dearth of ideas. We'd alienated our core vote and were failing to attract new ones. What do we need to change? What do we do next?  I find that a more interesting debate than 'youre selfish!' followed by a retort 'youre a tory! '. I hope the party takes the time to have a genuine, non polarized debate about this. 

[uscore]

 

3 minutes ago, eFestivals said:

or alternatively, the members weren't prepared to accept a viable candidate, preferring self-indulgence over victory.

There were viable candidates. Burnham & Cooper would have been, for example. They are individuals who would be acceptable to those who cannot bring themselves to vote for Corbyn, that segment of the electorate from which victory is possible.

(Just imagine how well Cooper would have taken on May, for example, while Corbyn missed open-goal after open-goal).

There's so many factors around this election, tho, that direct comparison just isn't possible. I'm well aware that with Cooper or Burnham Labour might still be for remaining in the EU and that might have caused a bigger loss, but then again with them as leader we might not be heading out of the EU in the first place, nor having an election right now.

I remain convinced, tho, that everything of where we are tumbles from that initial flawed self-indugent choice of Corbyn. Everything about it pointed to failure, and at the time of his election huge numbers who supported him were happy to say "I don't care if he fails".

They've got what they said they wanted, yet they seem to care about failure after all - far too late. 

I think there is some truth in what you say, for some people who voted Corbyn.  Not for me, I genuinely hoped he would break the cycle of average centrist Labour leaders who were doomed to failure, and that Corbyn could be the catalyst of a genuinely left wing grass roots movement.  It hasn't worked, I was optimistic - I knew it was a gamble but it wouldn't be fair to say I didn't care if he fails. 

From my perspective I am just as cross as you, but about the other side of Labour who dislike Corbyn so much that they want to see him fail and would rather a Tory government than be proved wrong.

But that's the story of 2 party politics, trying to satisfy the spectrum of political opinions.

 

 

[Little Andy]

Hi. I'm putting a lot of effort to choosing wisely who to vote for, having never voted before. As this is an anti-conservative thread, I would like to hear what opinions (agree or disagree, and why) anyone here has of this article. Cheers. : https://blogs.spectator.co.uk/2016/08/shouldnt-vote-jeremy-corbyn/

[uscore]

I'm feeling pretty unoptimistic and gloomy about the election to be honest. Sometimes I think maybe this stupid country deserves a Tory government.