Football 17/18

[jyoung]

3 minutes ago, Gucci Piggy said:

Yeah they are, but they're both managers who I'd trust to compete (top 4 I'm talking, not titles) with Arsenal's budget/squad, and are used to not having huge budgets at their hands and the best squads in the world to pick from.

I hope Chelsea end up with Enrique. Not been majorly linked with anyone yet, have you?

Enrique and Tuchel are the ones on my 'no' list tbh. No real rhyme or reason, I just don't fancy it as a good fit. Enrique and Sarri are the only ones I think we've seriously been linked with and a lot of fans have reservations over Sarri as he's never won a title.

Allegri and Jardim have been mentioned but nothing concrete there. Seen rumours that Abramovich might go down a different path and not go for the big name (think Wagner at Hudds) but I think that won't happen on our next appointment. Apparently they spoke to Howe once when this idea was floating around but as we saw, old habits die hard.

[CRW5252]

5 minutes ago, pink_triangle said:

Assistant at a top premiership side may get you a bottom half premiership team. I can't see it gets you the top job at Arsenal.

Why? Some of the most successful managers in the world had their first job as a manager at a top club after working their way up as an assistant.  

[CRW5252]

43 minutes ago, Gucci Piggy said:

Buvac (Liverpool assistant) to Arsenal according to a source in Bosnia that was the first to break him and Klopp to Liverpool.

Very out of the blue but would add up with a few other things. Obviously his sudden leave of absence from Liverpool (which could also be down to other reasons, naturally), but also Arsenal's backroom overhaul this season would make sense if they're hiring someone who's more of a coach than an all-round manager.

Dunno if I buy it. Would normally disregard it but by all accounts it's from a reliable source.

It would be an interesting appointment. Risky but I would be on board. Clearly we are continuing to follow the Barcelona model. 

It would also set up some WWE esque 'ex best friend' clashes between Klopp and Buvac 

[CRW5252]

14 minutes ago, jyoung said:

Enrique and Tuchel are the ones on my 'no' list tbh. No real rhyme or reason, I just don't fancy it as a good fit. Enrique and Sarri are the only ones I think we've seriously been linked with and a lot of fans have reservations over Sarri as he's never won a title.

Allegri and Jardim have been mentioned but nothing concrete there. Seen rumours that Abramovich might go down a different path and not go for the big name (think Wagner at Hudds) but I think that won't happen on our next appointment. Apparently they spoke to Howe once when this idea was floating around but as we saw, old habits die hard.

Emery seems a good fit as well. I expect him to be considered.

[eFestivals]

17 minutes ago, pink_triangle said:

Assistant at a top premiership side may get you a bottom half premiership team. I can't see it gets you the top job at Arsenal.

while I agree with what you say as a general thing, if they've identified him as something special, why not? 

In a way it's a bit like the appointment of Wenger 20 years ago, a 'hidden' talent that no one else would be likely to go for.

[zahidf]

1 minute ago, eFestivals said:

while I agree with what you say as a general thing, if they've identified him as something special, why not? 

In a way it's a bit like the appointment of Wenger 20 years ago, a 'hidden' talent that no one else would be likely to go for.

its a gutsy move, which is generally something i approve off. Hope it pays off for them

 

Edited May 1, 2018 by zahidf

[eFestivals]

1 minute ago, zahidf said:

its a gutsy move, which is generally something i approve off. Hope it pays off for them

whoever they go for, no matter how big the name, its still a gamble that might not pay off.

So I'm not really sure there's a much bigger risk with an untried tho identified talent. It either works or it doesn't.

[Wooderson]

8 minutes ago, CRW5252 said:

It would be an interesting appointment. Risky but I would be on board. Clearly we are continuing to follow the Barcelona model. 

It would also set up some WWE esque 'ex best friend' clashes between Klopp and Buvac 

"Barcelona model"?

[CRW5252]

1 minute ago, Wooderson said:

"Barcelona model"?

Appointing lower reputation managers rather than going for the big names

[thetime]

2 hours ago, Gucci Piggy said:

Buvac (Liverpool assistant) to Arsenal according to a source in Bosnia that was the first to break him and Klopp to Liverpool.

Very out of the blue but would add up with a few other things. Obviously his sudden leave of absence from Liverpool (which could also be down to other reasons, naturally), but also Arsenal's backroom overhaul this season would make sense if they're hiring someone who's more of a coach than an all-round manager.

Dunno if I buy it. Would normally disregard it but by all accounts it's from a reliable source.

If that’s true fair play to Arsenal.

trying something new, rather than the usual merry go round of managers. It is something I wish united would go for, rather than the predictable appointments. 

 

[pink_triangle]

3 hours ago, CRW5252 said:

Why? Some of the most successful managers in the world had their first job as a manager at a top club after working their way up as an assistant.  

I think there is a difference between whether he would do a good job at Arsenal and whether he would get the Arsenal job.

The main reason I think he wont get the job is because of history. I cant remember one of the top teams ever appointing the assistant manager of a rival. Im sure there must be examples, but Im struggling. I think its partly down to the big clubs not wanting to go for a candidate without experience, but also there is probably an element of pride in appointing the assistant of a rival.  I think promoting from within is a little different, as that's often more of a continuity thing.

If he has been lined up for Arsenal why would he leave Liverpool now? I cant see Liverpool would stand in his way of managing a top team and massively increasing his salary. My guess is its either personal issues or a fallout with Klopp and people have just made assumptions because Arsenal job is available.

[pink_triangle]

3 hours ago, eFestivals said:

while I agree with what you say as a general thing, if they've identified him as something special, why not? 

In a way it's a bit like the appointment of Wenger 20 years ago, a 'hidden' talent that no one else would be likely to go for.

Wenger had won the French league title so its slightly different. I could see this move more likely if he had played for Arsenal before, my guess is Arsenal go for the big name. However a lot of the media seems to be touting him, so Arsenal may be doing something very different.

Edited May 1, 2018 by pink_triangle

[eFestivals]

1 minute ago, pink_triangle said:

Wenger had won the French league title so its slightly different.

Not really. If you're old enough to remember, it was "Arsene who?" - and not only from the fan on the street, it was like that from the football world too. There was almost no 'internationalism' in football in this country at that time, and it was considered a daring left-field appointment.

But I agree, he certainly came with an impressive record despite his comparative anonymity in the UK, and Arsenal took the trouble to find him and get him rather than going for the more-obvious candidates - which is where Buvac ends up being similar to some extent (if the story is true).

[Hugh Jass]

3 hours ago, pink_triangle said:

Assistant at a top premiership side may get you a bottom half premiership team. I can't see it gets you the top job at Arsenal.

Carlos Queiroz, Brian Kidd, Sammy Lee.... it always ends well.

[eFestivals]

Just now, Hugh Jass said:

Carlos Queiroz, Brian Kidd, Sammy Lee.... it always ends well.

wally with the brolly, too. How did you forget him?

 

[Hugh Jass]

1 minute ago, eFestivals said:

Not really. If you're old enough to remember, it was "Arsene who?" - and not only from the fan on the street, it was like that from the football world too. There was almost no 'internationalism' in football in this country at that time, and it was considered a daring left-field appointment.

But I agree, he certainly came with an impressive record despite his comparative anonymity in the UK, and Arsenal took the trouble to find him and get him rather than going for the more-obvious candidates - which is where Buvac ends up being similar to some extent (if the story is true).

Wenger was (and I assume still is) a close friend of David Dein’s prior to getting the gig. Dein had to push very hard to convince the board from what I’ve read.

[Hugh Jass]

1 minute ago, eFestivals said:

wally with the brolly, too. How did you forget him?

 

I deliberately omitted him, he was a roaring success compared to the other three.

[eFestivals]

1 minute ago, Hugh Jass said:

Wenger was (and I assume still is) a close friend of David Dein’s prior to getting the gig. Dein had to push very hard to convince the board from what I’ve read.

there were allsorts of reasons why it happened, but it couldn't happen again now in the same way. Things have moved on and there's no 'who?' now about the managerial successes in the top European leagues, and there's strong competition for them.

But a 'who?' can happen with a coach at top team still (as long as that coach isn't an ex top player), which is why Buvac feels like it would be a similar thing in today's different circumstances.

[TheGayTent]

I was at Wembley that night when the Wally got his moniker - he was clearly out of his depth but I agree with our resident baggie - as a coach, and a lower level manager McLaren has a pretty decent record. Certainly a record better than the likes of the bung taker, ‘Pards’, or the Welsh boreball. 

[TheGayTent]

6 minutes ago, eFestivals said:

there were allsorts of reasons why it happened, but it couldn't happen again now in the same way. Things have moved on and there's no 'who?' now about the managerial successes in the top European leagues, and there's strong competition for them.

But a 'who?' can happen with a coach at top team still (as long as that coach isn't an ex top player), which is why Buvac feels like it would be a similar thing in today's different circumstances.

There was no who at the time from people inside the game. It’s just the world has changed. Armchair experts now will have heard of the modern day Arsene’s because they watch Ligue 1 on their 58” screen whereas they didn’t use to have a subscription to World Soccer.  

[Hugh Jass]

3 minutes ago, TheGayTent said:

I was at Wembley that night when the Wally got his moniker - he was clearly out of his depth but I agree with our resident baggie - as a coach, and a lower level manager McLaren has a pretty decent record. Certainly a record better than the likes of the bung taker, ‘Pards’, or the Welsh boreball. 

Indeed, kept Boro up and took them to a European final, won the Dutch league with an unfancied club, convinced Mike Ashley to hire him...

[TheGayTent]

20 minutes ago, eFestivals said:

Not really. If you're old enough to remember, it was "Arsene who?" - and not only from the fan on the street, it was like that from the football world too. There was almost no 'internationalism' in football in this country at that time, and it was considered a daring left-field appointment.

Apologies, that last post was in response to this post. 

The football world knew all about Wenger, the fan on the street knew less that’s for sure. There were less fans on the street back then. 

Edited May 1, 2018 by TheGayTent

[CRW5252]

26 minutes ago, pink_triangle said:

I think there is a difference between whether he would do a good job at Arsenal and whether he would get the Arsenal job.

The main reason I think he wont get the job is because of history. I cant remember one of the top teams ever appointing the assistant manager of a rival. Im sure there must be examples, but Im struggling. I think its partly down to the big clubs not wanting to go for a candidate without experience, but also there is probably an element of pride in appointing the assistant of a rival.  I think promoting from within is a little different, as that's often more of a continuity thing.

If he has been lined up for Arsenal why would he leave Liverpool now? I cant see Liverpool would stand in his way of managing a top team and massively increasing his salary. My guess is its either personal issues or a fallout with Klopp and people have just made assumptions because Arsenal job is available.

I do agree with you that it would be a unique appointment. It is more common in Spain to do this kind of thing, admittedly it is mainly promoting from within.

I have no idea if it will happen but the reports seem to have some legs. If one f the top teams were to make this kind of appointment, it would be Arsenal.

[eFestivals]

Just now, TheGayTent said:

There was no who at the time from people inside the game. It’s just the world has changed. Armchair experts now will have heard of the modern day Arsene’s because they watch Ligue 1 on their 58” screen whereas they didn’t use to have a subscription to World Soccer.  

there were plenty of players at the time saying 'who', too. But yeah, i'm sure there were those who knew of him as well.

And I agree, the world has changed - changed to where a coach like Buvac would get a similar reaction today. (Which was more my point than trying to say no one knew of wenger).

 

[kaosmark2]

7 minutes ago, TheGayTent said:

I was at Wembley that night when the Wally got his moniker - he was clearly out of his depth but I agree with our resident baggie - as a coach, and a lower level manager McLaren has a pretty decent record. Certainly a record better than the likes of the bung taker, ‘Pards’, or the Welsh boreball. 

True enough in most circumstances, however a substantially worse record than fat Sam or Pardew at ours.