Brexit Schmexit

[eFestivals]

1 minute ago, feral chile said:

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2016/04/04/hmrc_breaks_up_aspire_it_contract_500bn_tax/

nothing to do with brexit.

[feral chile]

2 minutes ago, eFestivals said:

nothing to do with brexit.

Definitely nothing to do with your mate.

[eFestivals]

23 minutes ago, feral chile said:

Definitely nothing to do with your mate.

they ditched the computer system he supported for them about ten (maybe 15) years ago.

And i didn't say it was their current system. It was in fact their old system, that they'd moved on from somewhen around the late eighties / early nineties - when it would have had to handle UK/Europe stuff, as it happens - but still used it for some purposes (not sure what).

The company he worked for continued to support it for a few years, he was the last guy working on it for that company as the support needs reduced, and then he was offered the support contract as a sort-of redundancy package by that company when he left them. 

[feral chile]

21 minutes ago, eFestivals said:

they ditched the computer system he supported for them about ten (maybe 15) years ago.

And i didn't say it was their current system. It was in fact their old system, that they'd moved on from somewhen around the late eighties / early nineties - when it would have had to handle UK/Europe stuff, as it happens - but still used it for some purposes (not sure what).

The company he worked for continued to support it for a few years, he was the last guy working on it for that company as the support needs reduced, and then he was offered the support contract as a sort-of redundancy package by that company when he left them. 

Maybe he maintained one of the systems that fed into CHIEF.

https://www.gov.uk/guidance/export-declarations-and-the-national-export-system-export-procedures

[sjseabass]

14 hours ago, eFestivals said:

*Waffle waffle*

The UK can (in theory and in practice - if both sides can agree to do it) leave the EU and have everything the same on the ground in Ireland.

*Waffle waffle*

You still don't get it. It can't. Not when leaving the single market and customs union.

What the UK wants is functionally impossible (hence my use of unicorn). If it's not impossible, care to send a memo to the UK government explaining how their proposals will actually work? They'd love to hear from you, because at the moment they don't have shit.

Why the hell should Ireland be humouring the UK when they want something that's impossible? What's the point of talking about something that's impossible?

Edited November 30, 2017 by theevilfridge

[eFestivals]

9 hours ago, theevilfridge said:

You still don't get it. It can't. Not when leaving the single market and customs union.

yes it  can, if there's an equivalent deal.

An equivalent deal is perfectly possible, if there's the political will to make it happen.

Simple fact is the EU doesn't want to make it happen, but it takes two to make an agreement.

 

Quote

What the UK wants is functionally impossible (hence my use of unicorn).

Not true.

It would be exceedingly difficult for the EU to codify around its existing set-up - and i don't expect them to do it - but it is not impossible.

You can even find words by Juncker or Tusk (I forget which) saying pretty much what i've said immediately above (including that the difficulties of codifying it make it not a practical option for the EU).

 

Quote

If it's not impossible, care to send a memo to the UK government explaining how their proposals will actually work? They'd love to hear from you, because at the moment they don't have shit.

The UK have already sent the memo to the EU, months ago. You not following?

 

Quote

Why the hell should Ireland be humouring the UK when they want something that's impossible? What's the point of talking about something that's impossible?

It's not impossible. All options are possible for those that can agree to make them happen.

Why the hell should the UK be humouring Ireland? It works both ways. That's what sovereignty is. Choices - for everyone.

The UK can choose to ask for a deal. Ireland (or the EU) can refuse it. Sovereignty!

And what i raised, very specifically, was Ireland's "threat" of no further talks to address the problem. It's Ireland's right via their sovereignty to take that stance and I respect their right to take that stance.

But it's counter-productive, unless it forces the UK to change course - which is as likely as the opposite of Ireland becoming a British puppet, frankly.
(the UK might change course, but it will not be because of Ireland's stance, it will be because of everything about leaving)

If Ireland wants to force the hardest of borders onto Ireland by a refusal to talk about anything else, it can do. That's its sovereign right on its side of the border.

But given that it says it wants something softer than the hardest of borders, and something softer than the hardest of borders *will* be available (unless the EU has no intention of any sort of new trade deal), why would it choose to punch itself in the face by forcing the hardest of borders?

The hardest of borders doesn't serve anyone on the island well according to the Irish Govt, so it's fucking stupid if they cause it to be worse than it might otherwise be.

I'm not claiming anything about the UK being right with what it wants for Ireland, i'm simply pointing out that all options are its right to pursue (same for Ireland) via the sovereignty it has.

And that something better than the hardest of borders is available for the island is Ireland, if the Irish govt wants something softer than the hardest of borders.

Edited December 1, 2017 by eFestivals

[Wooderson]

Tory’s would love the IRA back. Superb vote winner.

[eFestivals]

4 minutes ago, Wooderson said:

Tory’s would love the IRA back. Superb vote winner.

and Ireland's threat of the hardest of borders....? What's that meant to achieve?

There's more than one being suggestive here, if you want to claim there's background agendas.

Edited December 1, 2017 by eFestivals

[Wooderson]

2 hours ago, eFestivals said:

and Ireland's threat of the hardest of borders....? What's that meant to achieve?

There's more than one being suggestive here, if you want to claim there's background agendas.

Reality Neil is people over here are embarrassed for the UK, but don’t want to see murders again. 

[Wooderson]

The economics really is secondary. We have an agreement which needs to be upheld.

[lost]

hmmm not sure about that. I believe Ireland sees its corporation tax rate as a red line if the EU starts to push legislation to bring in tax harmonisation across the member states? In that example its happy to push back against the EU rules to protect its economy.

[eFestivals]

43 minutes ago, Wooderson said:

Reality Neil is people over here are embarrassed for the UK, but don’t want to see murders again. 

You're allowed to be embarressed for us.

Meanwhile, there's a problem to solve, and saying Ireland will make things as bad as possible has Ireland doing its best to see murders again.

Ireland wouldn't accept a different set-up for Cork to Dublin, nor would it accept a similar diktat from the UK if the situations were reversed. Get back to the real world, where sovereign nations are permitted to make sovereign choices, and other sovereign nations have to live with those sovereign choices, and try to work with them if they wish to.

Ireland is welcome to make things as bad as possible for Irish people if it wishes - but that will be Ireland's doing if it does. 

Don't forget, either, that the UK is not punished if NI chooses to leave the UK as a consequence of brexit.

[eFestivals]

51 minutes ago, Wooderson said:

The economics really is secondary. We have an agreement which needs to be upheld.

the agreement isn't dependent on the EU. It merely happens to work via that at the moment. Don't forget, the GFA pre-dates a fair bit of the current EU set-up too. 

So there's other solutions, and Ireland needs to be prepared to accept that there can be other solutions.

It doesn't have to agree with other possible solutions, but it's fucking daft to refuse to explore them if the border issue is so important.

Edited December 1, 2017 by eFestivals

[eFestivals]

27 minutes ago, lost said:

hmmm not sure about that. I believe Ireland sees its corporation tax rate as a red line if the EU starts to push legislation to bring in tax harmonisation across the member states? In that example its happy to push back against the EU rules to protect its economy.

yeah, and Ireland was more than a little upset when the EU told it that the bankers couldn't be made to pay the banker's fuckup, and instead ordinary folk had to.

It's not just the UK who might try to screw Ireland.

[lost]

The leavers in the UK were saying the EU isn't democratic and is a dictatorship which is why we need to leave. Some Irish are now saying they have no power to try and influence the EU border rules and try to find a solution. They are proving the leavers in the UK's argument is correct.

[eFestivals]

14 minutes ago, lost said:

The leavers in the UK were saying the EU isn't democratic and is a dictatorship which is why we need to leave. Some Irish are now saying they have no power to try and influence the EU border rules and try to find a solution. They are proving the leavers in the UK's argument is correct.

I dunno about that.

Not being able to get your own way doesn't make something undemocratic.

 

[Wooderson]

I’m not so sure about Dubliners and Cork people. We don’t recognize those c**ts. Saw their county off and kick it into the Atlantic would be my approach. Flash them the v’s on the new coast as they drift away.

[russycarps]

15 minutes ago, Wooderson said:

I’m not so sure about Dubliners and Cork people. We don’t recognize those c**ts. Saw their county off and kick it into the Atlantic would be my approach. Flash them the v’s on the new coast as they drift away.

I know nothing about this, care to explain?

 

[zahidf]

Things going well then

 

It's going to look great when we have to ask for an Article 50 extension because the guy in charge of Brexit resigned over someone else being sacked for viewing porn at work. 

 

[eFestivals]

41 minutes ago, Wooderson said:

I’m not so sure about Dubliners and Cork people. We don’t recognize those c**ts. Saw their county off and kick it into the Atlantic would be my approach. Flash them the v’s on the new coast as they drift away.

funnily enough, that's not too dissimilar to the typical brit's view of (both sides in) NI.

Really tho, it's just one of many areas you can draw a line around and say "they wanted to stay in", but which ultimately means nothing in a whole-UK majority decision in the other direction.

[bunique]

50 minutes ago, Wooderson said:

I’m not so sure about Dubliners and Cork people. We don’t recognize those c**ts. Saw their county off and kick it into the Atlantic would be my approach. Flash them the v’s on the new coast as they drift away.

Oi!

[Wooderson]

Russy, Cork people are an irritant. Fin.

[zahidf]

 

[eFestivals]

8 minutes ago, zahidf said:

 

Whichever way it pans out, there's ego's to flatter in public while the arm is twisted in the background.

Ireland can veto talks if it wants to try to hold out for full SM/CU membership from the UK, but that only really means it's hugely likely to get the worst possible deal of all.

There's absolutely no chance of May bending on SM/CU, as she's bet her position on it. If she falls it's even more likely that her tory replacement will be even firmer about it.

And not only that, the tory govt doesn't stand up if the tories bend on it - so there is absolutely no fucking way on this earth the UK's position is changing on this (unless perhaps there's the sudden death of about 5 tory MPs and then byelections; unlikely but not impossible).

So I reckon Tusk is buttering up poor old Leo's public position, but is about to be told he has to get real.

 

 

Edited December 1, 2017 by eFestivals

[zahidf]

6 minutes ago, eFestivals said:

Whichever way it pans out, there's ego's to flatter in public while the arm is twisted in the background.

Ireland can veto talks if it wants to try to hold out for full SM/CU membership from the UK, but that only really means it's hugely likely to get the worst possible deal of all.

There's absolutely no chance of May bending on SM/CU, as she's bet her position on it. If she falls it's even more likely that her tory replacement will be even firmer about it.

And not only that, the tory govt doesn't stand up if the tories bend on it - so there is absolutely no fucking way on this earth the UK's position is changing on this (unless perhaps there's the sudden death of about 5 tory MPs and then byelections; unlikely but not impossible).

So I reckon Tusk is buttering up poor old Leo's public position, but is about to be told he has to get real.

 

 

I thought you felt May was looking for a way to justify a soft brexit? this would be one! (caving in on SM/CU)