Brexit Schmexit

[ThomThomDrum]

50 minutes ago, eFestivals said:

 

And Ireland should never have had a ref on Lisbon? Or is that different?

 

tidying up our shit might be finally offloading NI a hundred years too late. 

You ready?

Ireland voting on Lisbon and other EU referendum is/was a farce. Stupid to think many know what the hell they are voting on. All done on gut and what sounded ok in the media to folk.........and sure if they get the wrong answer just ask em again......(That incidently is what should happen with Brexit, but that stiff upper lip and pride of the Brits/English still wont allow for it just yet, or so certain polls and politicians say)

As for offloading NI  In yer dreams! Ha Ha...........(and our nightmares)

 

 

[eFestivals]

13 minutes ago, zahidf said:

Maybe but the DUP are taking a very hard line on the proposed deal. I dont see how THEY can back down now.

 

And if its true they didnt know about it? Thats hardly competence on Mays part, is it?

them making a fuss can be just as much of the play as anything else, don't forget.

And I'm not sure that May (or anyone) would be telling them all details of what they plan to negotiate around, so that part doesn't necessarily mean anything. May's trying to negotiate for more than just NI don't forget.

[eFestivals]

23 minutes ago, ThomThomDrum said:

Ireland voting on Lisbon and other EU referendum is/was a farce. Stupid to think many know what the hell they are voting on. All done on gut and what sounded ok in the media to folk.........and sure if they get the wrong answer just ask em again......(That incidently is what should happen with Brexit, but that stiff upper lip and pride of the Brits/English still wont allow for it just yet, or so certain polls and politicians say)

thing is, having decided a vote is a good idea, it's hard to say afterwards that it wasn't. It seems like a con that way. So it has to play out, however it plays out.

I remain hopeful that we'll come to our senses and the vote will be reversed with another vote, but i'm starting to think it's less likely - and particularly if May pulls off something in the next week or two.

[zahidf]

Basically (for all intents and purposes) staying im SM and CMU AND BJ fucking off?

 

 

 

[eFestivals]

10 minutes ago, zahidf said:

Basically (for all intents and purposes) staying im SM and CMU

no, something different.

It's clear it's something different.

Funnily enough, May has been talking about a comprehensive trade deal from the start - which obviously would require common standards.

[zahidf]

22 minutes ago, eFestivals said:

no, something different.

It's clear it's something different.

Funnily enough, May has been talking about a comprehensive trade deal from the start - which obviously would require common standards.

 

[eFestivals]

1 minute ago, zahidf said:

 

but it's still clear that it's not for all elements of the SM, only ones which would see barriers go up in NI.

So, as i said, 'free movement' (in today's sense) is unlikely to be part of it.

 

[LJS]

 

 

[ThomThomDrum]

7 minutes ago, LJS said:

 

 

 

[zahidf]

 

[LJS]

Ahh, 

Brings back memories.

[ThomThomDrum]

Answer to David Allen Greens Question = Find a way to drown the DUP in the river.... 

[zahidf]

 

Edited December 4, 2017 by zahidf

[lost]

Wow Corbyn is getting some abuse below his tweet there for voting for a hard brexit. Maybe the tide is turning a bit.

[feral chile]

16 minutes ago, lost said:

Wow Corbyn is getting some abuse below his tweet there for voting for a hard brexit. Maybe the tide is turning a bit.

Good.

[eFestivals]

12 hours ago, zahidf said:

 

I pointed out last week that only two of those three can come together in the way people are thinking of it (tho both May and Ireland have shifted and softened position in the last few days in order to try and get something that works).

And while there might be a "soft brexit cross party majority" in theory, the reality of May being able to round up those votes is very slim I reckon.

Jez will much prefer war which he thinks is to his personal benefit than he will acting with the tories for what might be considered in the country's best interests.

[eFestivals]

10 hours ago, zahidf said:

So Jezza plans to split up the UK?

Can't see what else he's meaning, as he's no less committed to leaving the SM & CU as the tories are.

I wonder is anyone is able to tell me how the Jezza plan wouldn't be grubby? No matter what plan there is, it means some people are sold out on their wants.

Edited December 5, 2017 by eFestivals

[ThomThomDrum]

18 hours ago, eFestivals said:

Or she could threaten the DUP with resigning, and making clear they'll get less of what they want and not more if she's gone (which is probably true in any way you stack things up).

Oh, and they've not had a penny of the fee yet, either. That can be re-dangled.

The DUP would rather blow off their heads despite their faces. The Tories should have known that before they got into bed with them. They are some of the most stubborn pricks anyone can deal with. Them having a say/an effective veto on Brexit could really mess this all up (and its already begun). It will be very interesting to see how "negotiations" move on from were we are. Can May convince the DUP to shut up and accept the agreement so they can enter phase two and negotiate the soft brexit they all want? I dont se the DUP suddenly doing backing down. Will the EU concede more on the Ireland border issue? Looks unlikley as they seem to feel they have done enough and its up to May to sort out her house. That bloody election she called! 

May is now stuck between a rock and a hard place if the DUP dig in. She came to an agreement with the EU but screwed over her buddies in Government, so they are about to pick up their ball and fuck off home. They will not have their sense of unionism messed with. Sure, they have no functioning local assembly right now over stupid ass arguments over fucking flags and language.  

They want the same deal as the rest of the UK irrespective, as they just want to feel they are still suckling on Westminster and it doesnt matter if they sink or swim, just as long as the union is still "strong". 

[eFestivals]

21 minutes ago, ThomThomDrum said:

May is now stuck between a rock and a hard place

yup. I got a bit too hopeful yesterday. 

 

21 minutes ago, ThomThomDrum said:

They will not have their sense of unionism messed with.

Same could be said for Ireland, matey.

You can't really criticise the DUP for refusing to compromise when there's naff all different from the other side.

If there's going to be an agreement, it's going to require compromises from all sides.

Edited December 5, 2017 by eFestivals

[ThomThomDrum]

Just now, eFestivals said:

 

Same could be said for Ireland, matey.

You can't really criticise the DUP for refusing to compromise when there's naff all different from the other side.

If there's going to be an agreement, it's going to require compromises from all sides.

And you personally know that the agreement between May and the EU, that was sunk by the DUP,  didnt have compromises from the EU side already? 

 

[Wooderson]

1 minute ago, eFestivals said:

yup. I got a bit too hopeful yesterday.

Same could be said for Ireland, matey.

You can't really criticise the DUP for refusing to compromise when there's naff all different from the other side.

If there's going to be an agreement, it's going to require compromises from all sides.

To quote Robocop "Your move, creep."

Your PM is putting power and fear of Paul Dacre ahead of national interest. Ours isnt.

[Wooderson]

When you hear backbench loser torys saying "tear up the GFA, tear up the CTA" thats all you need to see who is causing the issues here.

Ireland has clearly moved yesterday. A couple times actually. Your PM is the problem Neil. Shes worse than Trump.

[zahidf]

11 minutes ago, eFestivals said:

yup. I got a bit too hopeful yesterday. 

 

Same could be said for Ireland, matey.

You can't really criticise the DUP for refusing to compromise when there's naff all different from the other side.

If there's going to be an agreement, it's going to require compromises from all sides.

hm, i know youve decided the irish govt (like sturgeon, corbyn e.t.c) are the bad guys and should be criticised at all and any points, but it seems clear the Irish, EU and UK govt had an agreement in place, before the DUP stopped it. I dont see what the Irish has done wrong if May and the DUP werent on the same page

 

hard to disagree

 

Edited December 5, 2017 by zahidf

[eFestivals]

Just now, ThomThomDrum said:

And you personally know that the agreement between May and the EU, that was sunk by the DUP,  didnt have compromises from the EU side already? 

it clearly did do, because of the wording it used instead of SM or CU (or both) ... but it's still everything to satisfy Ireland's demands.

And Leo is playing it as no compromise, which makes it more difficult for the DUP to accept.
(I'm not saying that justifies it, just that's the sort of attitude they'll take).

Like it or not there's a body of opinion in NI behind the DUP, and that's got to be worked with, by Ireland as well as by the UK.

And, whatever else you might think of the DUP, their want here isn't unreasonable to any degree, even if it is hugely inconvenient. They want what happens within their borders to be the same as and decided by the sovereign govt of the state they're part of. 

[zahidf]

2 minutes ago, eFestivals said:

it clearly did do, because of the wording it used instead of SM or CU (or both) ... but it's still everything to satisfy Ireland's demands.

And Leo is playing it as no compromise, which makes it more difficult for the DUP to accept.
(I'm not saying that justifies it, just that's the sort of attitude they'll take).

Like it or not there's a body of opinion in NI behind the DUP, and that's got to be worked with, by Ireland as well as by the UK.

And, whatever else you might think of the DUP, their want here isn't unreasonable to any degree, even if it is hugely inconvenient. They want what happens within their borders to be the same as and decided by the sovereign govt of the state they're part of. 

So your saying Ireland got everything they wanted in the agreement and May caved in? 

And its up to May to have her government on side. Why did ( as it looks like) she make an agreement she couldnt get HER OWN SIDE to agree with???