Brexit Schmexit

[feral chile]

https://www.msn.com/en-gb/money/news/the-real-price-of-brexit-begins-to-emerge/ar-BBGW9v5?li=AAmiR2Z&ocid=spartanntp

[eFestivals]

12 hours ago, feral chile said:

https://www.msn.com/en-gb/money/news/the-real-price-of-brexit-begins-to-emerge/ar-BBGW9v5?li=AAmiR2Z&ocid=spartanntp

don't worry, it'll be great, Jez says so.

Or alternatively, Jez is going to help the tories throw us over a cliff.

[zahidf]

1 hour ago, eFestivals said:

don't worry, it'll be great, Jez says so.

Or alternatively, Jez is going to help the tories throw us over a cliff.

yep. leta blame Jez rather than the UK govt

[eFestivals]

22 minutes ago, zahidf said:

yep. leta blame Jez rather than the UK govt

what have you missed?

Jez saying "a50 now" the day after the vote?

Jez whipping the MPs to vote with the tories on a50 and more?

Jez saying all the same things as the tories for what he wants from brexit?

If he wants to thought of differently to the tories, he has to do something different to the tories.

[zahidf]

Good from Bercow as well

 

 

 

[feral chile]

[eFestivals]

it's just like the Labour Party Manifesto from June 2017 

 

[eFestivals]

7 hours ago, eFestivals said:

what have you missed?

Jez saying "a50 now" the day after the vote?

Jez whipping the MPs to vote with the tories on a50 and more?

Jez saying all the same things as the tories for what he wants from brexit?

If he wants to thought of differently to the tories, he has to do something different to the tories.

PS: if it talks like a tory and votes like a tory....?

I thought that was the work of the devil when Blair went a bit too far in that direction, but full-in for the biggest issue of the day, and zahid is trying to say I'm getting at Corbyn unfairly...?

 

Edited December 19, 2017 by eFestivals

[feral chile]

1 hour ago, zahidf said:

Good from Bercow as well

 

 

 

Yes it's so inflammatory what the media's doing. 

'traitors', 'enemy of the people' crap - for trying to control Government's monopoly. And for parliament trying to 'take back control' of democracy.

This take back control thing winds me up so much. I can't believe people didn't know who it was who wanted the bloody control.

Edited December 19, 2017 by feral chile
can't type

[feral chile]

3 minutes ago, eFestivals said:

PS: if it talks like a tory and votes like a tory....?

I thought that was the work of the devil when Blair went a bit too far in that direction, but full-in for the biggest issue of the day, and zahid is trying to say I'm getting at Corbyn unfairly...?

 

Just been reading a big long debate on whether it's better to have brexit AND the Tories, or Corbyn even with Brexit. lots of people trying to argue that corbyn's the lesser of two evils.

Edited December 19, 2017 by feral chile

[eFestivals]

2 minutes ago, feral chile said:

Yes it's so inflammatory what the media's doing. 

i'm actually quite happy for them to be getting on with it. 

I reckon it ultimately strengthens the possibility of reversing brexit, because the more the likes of the mail goes over the top, the more that sane people will believe it can be ignored.

(the crazies aren't going to change their minds anyway).

But without a leader for stopping brexit, it's brexit full steam ahead.

[feral chile]

1 minute ago, eFestivals said:

i'm actually quite happy for them to be getting on with it. 

I reckon it ultimately strengthens the possibility of reversing brexit, because the more the likes of the mail goes over the top, the more that sane people will believe it can be ignored.

(the crazies aren't going to change their minds anyway).

But without a leader for stopping brexit, it's brexit full steam ahead.

You might have a point there, but it is encouraging the crazies - 'traitors should be executed' numpties.

[eFestivals]

3 minutes ago, feral chile said:

Just been reading a big long debate on whether it's better to have brexit AND the Tories, or Corbyn even with Brexit. lots of people trying to argue that corbyn's the lesser of two evils.

But that's an acceptance of brexit, when it might be stopped.

If we've brexited by the next election then whatever position Labour takes now on Brexit won't matter.

And if there's an election before brexit then Labour are going to have to take a position on it.

Which means that Labour might as well take a position on it, now (otherwise they risk being believed by neither leavers of remainers), and one that isn't the tory policy.

The tories won't own brexit if we brexit with Labour's votes.

[zahidf]

10 minutes ago, eFestivals said:

PS: if it talks like a tory and votes like a tory....?

I thought that was the work of the devil when Blair went a bit too far in that direction, but full-in for the biggest issue of the day, and zahid is trying to say I'm getting at Corbyn unfairly...?

 

ha!

 

Its just that you know why he is being vague about it. And i am not happy with why he is doing it, but at the same time, they arent in govt. If he was on govt and labour were full steam ahead, it would be a different story

[eFestivals]

2 minutes ago, feral chile said:

You might have a point there, but it is encouraging the crazies - 'traitors should be executed' numpties.

I think you're reading waaaay too much into it. There's much the same in the other direction too, and it's just people gobbing off.

But, you know, same thing again. Should the worst happen it works against them, not for them.

[eFestivals]

1 minute ago, zahidf said:

ha!

 

Its just that you know why he is being vague about it.

But he's not being vague about it. That's you refusing to listen to him.

The policy is the same - cake and eat it, leaving the SM/CU. The tory policy.

 

1 minute ago, zahidf said:

And i am not happy with why he is doing it, but at the same time, they arent in govt. If he was on govt and labour were full steam ahead, it would be a different story

Fucks sake. :lol:

Supposedly (said the corbynistas), the job of the opposition is to oppose.

Jez has been so with the tories he's been sacking his ministers for voting against the tories.

[zahidf]

17 minutes ago, eFestivals said:

I think you're reading waaaay too much into it. There's much the same in the other direction too, and it's just people gobbing off.

But, you know, same thing again. Should the worst happen it works against them, not for them.

i think if the police are involved and it has to be raised in parliament, its not really too much being read into it

 

If you call a group of people 'traitors' a year after Jo cox was murdered for 'being one', i think your inciting the death threats souby et al got

[eFestivals]

8 minutes ago, zahidf said:

i think if the police are involved and it has to be raised in parliament, its not really too much being read into it

the police are involved because threats are illegal. It doesn't mean the makers of those threats are actually going to follow thru.

Bit of perspective, please. 

 

8 minutes ago, zahidf said:

If you call a group of people 'traitors' a year after Jo cox was murdered for 'being one', i think your inciting the death threats souby et al got

I'm not saying they shouldn't be acted against, I'm saying you're making it waaaay too important.

If someone does, unfortunately, take what gets said too seriously, it'd be the murder of a single MP, and not a coup by fascist paramilitaries.

[feral chile]

21 minutes ago, eFestivals said:

the police are involved because threats are illegal. It doesn't mean the makers of those threats are actually going to follow thru.

Bit of perspective, please. 

 

I'm not saying they shouldn't be acted against, I'm saying you're making it waaaay too important.

If someone does, unfortunately, take what gets said too seriously, it'd be the murder of a single MP, and not a coup by fascist paramilitaries.

there's been too much of this already. your sentiment here is the way I felt about what was said about Momentum, though with the difference that I thought the numpties were the usual rent a mob rather than Momentum/Corbyn supporters.

A bit of perspective though - I'm in full agreement with that, from all sides, including the press.

[eFestivals]

Just now, feral chile said:

there's been too much of this already. your sentiment here is the way I felt about what was said about Momentum, though with the difference that I thought the numpties were the usual rent a mob rather than Momentum/Corbyn supporters.

A bit of perspective though - I'm in full agreement with that, from all sides, including the press.

If you cared to notice, I wasn't throwing my toys out of the pram about the threats made at Eagle and others. 

People get passionate about issues. Sometimes that passion goes too far and people get gobby. Only very rarely it goes so far that someone follows thru.

It's wrong, it's being acted against as wrong, and 'good' (standard politicians) voices aren't supporting any of it, and are speaking out against it. It's as it should be.

Meanwhile, it's happening cos the hard brexiters know they're losing. That's not a bad thing.

(tho oddly, that vote they've kicked off about makes a no-deal brexit more likely than it was. Strange people )

[feral chile]

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/12/16/world/europe/britain-european-union-farming-immigration-labor-shortage.html

Where I'm from, this work was traditionally done by UK locals, cash in hand. It was pretty organised - buses to take  people to the farms etc.

Most of my bloody neighbourhood did it.

especially after the pits closed.

Edited December 19, 2017 by feral chile

[eFestivals]

1 minute ago, feral chile said:

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/12/16/world/europe/britain-european-union-farming-immigration-labor-shortage.html

Where I'm from, this work was traditionally done by UK locals, cash in hand. It was pretty organised - buses to take  people to the farms etc.

Most of my bloody neighbourhood did it.

especially after the pits closed.

UK workers don't want to do hard work, and certainly not for minimum wage in harsh conditions.

But it's not particularly brexit itself that's slowing the numbers coming, it's the fall in the pound which makes it less worthwhile coming.

Anyway, the solution is going to have to be higher wages and more expensive food. The higher wages people want (and the other wants) isn't going to come for free.

[feral chile]

1 minute ago, eFestivals said:

UK workers don't want to do hard work, and certainly not for minimum wage in harsh conditions.

But it's not particularly brexit itself that's slowing the numbers coming, it's the fall in the pound which makes it less worthwhile coming.

Anyway, the solution is going to have to be higher wages and more expensive food. The higher wages people want (and the other wants) isn't going to come for free.

it was seasonal, so a few weeks of hard work for a bit of extra cash.

Black economy and all that. People would do it temporarily, and then go back to their official jobless life.

I'm ambivalent about this - the workers were exploited, but reasonably happy to be exploited.

The farmers got the work done on the cheap, not sure if they could afford to pay the going rate.

does the economy need this (or more to the point, will it in future), despite all the huffing and puffing about benefits fraudsters etc.?

 

[eFestivals]

we definitely need to be adding value to something in this country. It would be better if some of the value didn't then immediately flow away overseas.

[zahidf]

1 hour ago, eFestivals said:

If you cared to notice, I wasn't throwing my toys out of the pram about the threats made at Eagle and others. 

People get passionate about issues. Sometimes that passion goes too far and people get gobby. Only very rarely it goes so far that someone follows thru.

It's wrong, it's being acted against as wrong, and 'good' (standard politicians) voices aren't supporting any of it, and are speaking out against it. It's as it should be.

Meanwhile, it's happening cos the hard brexiters know they're losing. That's not a bad thing.

(tho oddly, that vote they've kicked off about makes a no-deal brexit more likely than it was. Strange people )

well but elements of the national media are encouraging it though. Is THAT not worthy of comment/disgust?