Brexit Schmexit

[zahidf]

From Robert Preston

 

[LJS]

2 hours ago, eFestivals said:

i'm actually quite happy for them to be getting on with it. 

I reckon it ultimately strengthens the possibility of reversing brexit, because the more the likes of the mail goes over the top, the more that sane people will believe it can be ignored.

 

I'm interested in your optimism regarding Brexit being reversed. Let's say you're right and the government/general public come to what you & i would see as their senses. What do you think the chances are of Britain keeping all or any of our opt outs and rebates? & if the EU would only take us back without them, is that a price worth paying?

2 hours ago, eFestivals said:

But without a leader for stopping brexit, it's brexit full steam ahead.

We are agreed on this.

 

 I think Mhairi is the girl for the job!!!

[Comfy Bean]

Good news .....

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-42385589

Edited December 19, 2017 by Comfy Bean

[LJS]

1 hour ago, Comfy Bean said:

Good news .....

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-42385589

Indeed.

[eFestivals]

11 hours ago, zahidf said:

well but elements of the national media are encouraging it though. Is THAT not worthy of comment/disgust?

Why is the media doing it any different to fred bloggs doing it?

You're only outraged because it's the different point of view to your own - as you proved by your many attempts get the threats against Eagle dismissed as a nothing. 

Seems like you're only fooling yourself. :lol:

[eFestivals]

11 hours ago, LJS said:

I'm interested in your optimism regarding Brexit being reversed. Let's say you're right and the government/general public come to what you & i would see as their senses. What do you think the chances are of Britain keeping all or any of our opt outs and rebates? & if the EU would only take us back without them, is that a price worth paying?

I'm not optimistic of Brexit being reversed.

Whether or not a50 can simply be cancelled by the UK is a matter of argument.

But i'm confident that the EU would accept the UK back (if it'll accept the UK back) on the same terms as now. If the UK loses its 'rebate' then Germany and France (and the other one or two net contributors) are also going to have to pay more, and most of the shit around brexit is because they're not prepared to pay more.

The UK is not getting a freebie with its 'rebate'. 

 

Quote

 I think Mhairi is the girl for the job!!!

sounds much more like the girl with no job in the real world.

I'd probably have sacked her for being shit; I can't afford shit staff.

Edited December 20, 2017 by eFestivals

[eFestivals]

11 hours ago, zahidf said:

From Robert Preston

 

the vague bullshit continues as does zahid being suckered by it, so that Corbyn and McD can have the brexit they've wanted for 40 years.

[eFestivals]

9 hours ago, Comfy Bean said:

Good news .....

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-42385589

It mostly proves the lack of housing pressures in Scotland and not a lot else.

Edited December 20, 2017 by eFestivals

[zahidf]

31 minutes ago, eFestivals said:

Why is the media doing it any different to fred bloggs doing it?

You're only outraged because it's the different point of view to your own - as you proved by your many attempts get the threats against Eagle dismissed as a nothing. 

Seems like you're only fooling yourself.

The Daily Heil has a much bigger reach that fred bloggs

Absolute Rot on Eagle. Ive never dismissed the threats against her. Fake news!

[eFestivals]

18 minutes ago, zahidf said:

The Daily Heil has a much bigger reach that fred bloggs

but it still requires that it hits with the seriously mentally unstable to have any effect.

The chances are tiny, but if it happened it's not difficult to see where the whole country will point the finger.

So what can the hate mail gain? Nothing at all.

 

Quote

Absolute Rot on Eagle. Ive never dismissed the threats against her. Fake news!

apols, I thought i was replying to feral when I wrote that.

But, much the same applies. There's been people like you (not necessarily you, tho I reckon a hunt-back would show that it was you too) running around calling the tories murderers because they don't like their policies. 

It's all the same idiot bollocks. The problem is idiots and bollocks, and not the mail.

Edited December 20, 2017 by eFestivals

[feral chile]

56 minutes ago, eFestivals said:

but it still requires that it hits with the seriously mentally unstable to have any effect.

The chances are tiny, but if it happened it's not difficult to see where the whole country will point the finger.

So what can the hate mail gain? Nothing at all.

 

apols, I thought i was replying to feral when I wrote that.

But, much the same applies. There's been people like you (not necessarily you, tho I reckon a hunt-back would show that it was you too) running around calling the tories murderers because they don't like their policies. 

It's all the same idiot bollocks. The problem is idiots and bollocks, and not the mail.

For the record, I'm not really dismissing the threats against her, more how she seemed to use them.

you probably misread what I do sometimes - it's more 'why are you giving a free pass here when you didn't there, because there's the same inconclusive evidence, media manipulation, same Mr/Mrs Angry so let's find an excuse to be a knob' mentality in both.

Some of the time, I'm trying to explore what feels lke an inconsistency in a POV, rather than necessarily stating my own view (my own view is that I can see inconsistency).

Edited December 20, 2017 by feral chile

[eFestivals]

4 minutes ago, feral chile said:

For the record, I'm not really dismissing the threats against her, more how she seemed to use them.

she used them no differently to how the "traitors" stuff is being used here.

Tho of course these were threats to her personally. It's no surprise if she was unsettled by them.

[feral chile]

6 minutes ago, eFestivals said:

she used them no differently to how the "traitors" stuff is being used here.

Tho of course these were threats to her personally. It's no surprise if she was unsettled by them.

I don't think I've really made myself clear. I understand why she did what she did, she's human. 

it's how it was used here, I suppose, that got to me. jumping on tiny little details with Corbyn - was there one seat, two seats, 3 4 5 empty etc. and then not - was it really her window/ a Corbyn supporter/ really an attack.

I understand how the Traingate thing developed and how Windowgate developed.

it was how one got pounced on and the other didn't that interested me.

I'm not that interested outside this forum about either, apart from the fact that politics has turned ugly and I don't like it.

I think Farage has a cheek whinging though, considering his rhetoric and attitude.

EDIT

I think it's because it was Labour members that did it that surprised me, you'd expect supporters from rival parties to pounce on stuff like this. I'd expect labour supporters to close it down - non story, irrelevance, media stirring - nothing to see here, move along  type of thing.

because they were both non stories in themselves, though both had serious issues underlying them.

Edited December 20, 2017 by feral chile

[eFestivals]

2 minutes ago, feral chile said:

it's how it was used here, I suppose, that got to me.

but it wasn't used here, apart from by you to call it fake. :lol:

[eFestivals]

3 minutes ago, feral chile said:

I understand how the Traingate thing developed

do you?

You now know you've been calling Jez a liar?

And you also know that it's got fuck all to do with whether the train was full at a later time, and it's got everything to do with a not-full train when Jez sat on the floor?

[eFestivals]

4 minutes ago, feral chile said:

it was how one got pounced on and the other didn't that interested me.

they both got "pounced on" here by me, because you were talking patent bollocks about both.

[feral chile]

Just now, eFestivals said:

but it wasn't used here, apart from by you to call it fake.

I edited my post above, to try to explain what it was that jarred with me over it.

posts on here came across as factionalism.

I'm not Labour, so I don't really understand the hostility towards Corbyn, he's still labour yet Labour supporters were undermining him, and therefore undermining labour.

That's how it seemed to me, and I really didn't understand it.

[eFestivals]

6 minutes ago, feral chile said:

apart from the fact that politics has turned ugly and I don't like it.

what turns it ugly are fakery and lies, and the rejection of truth.

So please stop doing what you say you don't like. The facts are out there, and it's only your own choice to remain dumb of the facts.

[eFestivals]

1 minute ago, feral chile said:

posts on here came across as factionalism.

your own.

[feral chile]

1 minute ago, eFestivals said:

do you?

You now know you've been calling Jez a liar?

And you also know that it's got fuck all to do with whether the train was full at a later time, and it's got everything to do with a not-full train when Jez sat on the floor?

Show me where Corbyn said there were no seats. watch the video, he didn't even make any direct claims about himself in it. It was more a campaign type speech - 'this is what it's like' etc.

The Guardian reported the story incorrectly, Branson was being a dick, publishing misleading footage, and by the time all this came out, the damage was done.

[feral chile]

1 minute ago, eFestivals said:

what turns it ugly are fakery and lies, and the rejection of truth.

So please stop doing what you say you don't like. The facts are out there, and it's only your own choice to remain dumb of the facts.

You show me the facts then. You call the other passenger accounts lies. You show me the exact lie Corbyn said. Not what the papers reckon he said, because the Guardian admitted they were inaccurate. But Corbyn's lie.

Eagle corrected herself later, do you see me calling her a liar?

You're the only one insisting that the train had to have no empty seats at all for people to sit on the floor.

Edited December 20, 2017 by feral chile

[eFestivals]

1 minute ago, feral chile said:

I'm not Labour, so I don't really understand the hostility towards Corbyn, he's still labour yet Labour supporters were undermining him, and therefore undermining labour.

unless things have changed, all politicians are subject to scruitiny and criticism where appropriate.

And there's shit loads of stuff which it's appropriate for Jez to be criticised for by anyone who is so inclined.

Some of that stuff Jez has even apologised for since he became leader - so even jez recognises that (at some of) the criticisms were just.

[feral chile]

Just now, eFestivals said:

unless things have changed, all politicians are subject to scruitiny and criticism where appropriate.

And there's shit loads of stuff which it's appropriate for Jez to be criticised for by anyone who is so inclined.

Some of that stuff Jez has even apologised for since he became leader - so even jez recognises that (at some of) the criticisms were just.

yes, much more relevant stuff that these pieces of media idiocy.

How about looking at how the media's protecting the vested interests of the UK?

And don't bloody repeat it and play their game for them.

[eFestivals]

6 minutes ago, feral chile said:

Show me where Corbyn said there were no seats.

He never did do.

Because there were seats when he chose to sit on the floor. Which he did say.

You say you do balanced sources. Find it yourself.

 

Quote

watch the video, he didn't even make any direct claims about himself in it. It was more a campaign type speech - 'this is what it's like' etc.

but he still sat on the floor when there were seats available for him to sit in.

and then he tried his best to not admit he'd sat on the floor when there were seats available to sit in.

If someone is sat in a pile of shit and moaning about some have to sit in a pile of shit, it's a perfectly reasonable assumption to think they're saying they've been made to sit in shit.

And if they've sat in shit when they didn't have to sit in shit, to think them an idiot for choosing to sit in shit.

 

Quote

The Guardian reported the story incorrectly, Branson was being a dick, publishing misleading footage, and by the time all this came out, the damage was done.

The footage isn't misleading.

Jez walked thru carriage after carriage of empty seats.

Edited December 20, 2017 by eFestivals

[eFestivals]

3 minutes ago, feral chile said:

yes, much more relevant stuff that these pieces of media idiocy.

How about looking at how the media's protecting the vested interests of the UK?

And don't bloody repeat it and play their game for them.

the one repeating lies is you feral.

You're calling Jez a liar.

Branson's video showed Jez walking past seats he could have sat in. Jez admitted that was the case.

Even the footage by the cameraman with jez shows that Branson's video was accurate (tho Branson's video did suggest more empty seats than there really were, because of short people).

Jez walked past empty seats. The Branson video showed jez walking past empty seats. Jez has admitted this fact.