Brexit Schmexit

[eFestivals]

Just now, feral chile said:

it also occurred to me as I was reading it that they chose where to focus their efforts.

Yup.

And it might be pointed out that in both NI and Scotland, the remain vote had a majority. The regional elections didn't seem to cause a problem for remain in those places.

[eFestivals]

19 minutes ago, lost said:

My comments were mainly around the debates which I think had enough viewers to swing the results either way.

Boris and Stuart seemed united and presented a vision even though they were politically opposed. On remain Eagle attacked the Tory remainer for austerity and Sturgeon seemed hand tied for obvious reasons. 

Ahh, getting you now.

And yeah, you're right, tho of course there was a lot of justified paranoia by Labour due to what happened in Scotland with the indyref and "standing alongside the tories" was used against them.

(Personally, I reckon how that worked in Scotland says more about the electorate than it does Labour, but the electorate is what it is, and has to be worked with).

 

[eFestivals]

On 1/3/2018 at 4:14 PM, lost said:

... Owen Jones ...

... has just done a piece on brexit.

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2018/jan/03/stop-brexit-campaign-vote-leave-populist

And he's quite open about how the working classes are worth selling out for Labour to be in power.

[LJS]

On 1/3/2018 at 6:33 PM, eFestivals said:

Ahh, getting you now.

And yeah, you're right, tho of course there was a lot of justified paranoia by Labour due to what happened in Scotland with the indyref and "standing alongside the tories" was used against them.

(Personally, I reckon how that worked in Scotland says more about the electorate than it does Labour, but the electorate is what it is, and has to be worked with).

spot on. The overwhelming majority of the Scottish electorate don't like Tories (capital T) & don't take kindly to politicians who cosy up to them.

[eFestivals]

12 hours ago, LJS said:

spot on. The overwhelming majority of the Scottish electorate don't like Tories (capital T) & don't take kindly to politicians who cosy up to them.

and who show just how much they're non-thinkers by doing so.  Yeah, i know. 

As i said, it said more about the electorate than Labour.

[zahidf]

PEOPLE WILL DIE WITH A SMILE ON THEIR FACE THINKING ITS WORTH IT

 

[eFestivals]

8 hours ago, zahidf said:

PEOPLE WILL DIE WITH A SMILE ON THEIR FACE THINKING ITS WORTH IT

Resources are finite, and if resources are diverted from one thing to another thing, it means less of the first thing.

Now, I give you a difficult challenge: think about it, and for more than just commercial enterprises.

[zahidf]

FFS

 

[zahidf]

1 hour ago, zahidf said:

FFS

 

It doesn't make any sense, other than as a sop to hardliners. Diverts resources, which aren't exactly in abundance and creates the atmosphere for further destabilising infighting between departments over Brexit, making a successful resolution even more unlikely.

[eFestivals]

7 minutes ago, zahidf said:

It doesn't make any sense

to mono-thought remainers. 

Cos it's passed you by that no deal might be better than a deal. It all depends what the deal is.

Fact is we'll get the best deal out the EU that we might get out of the EU via this sort of tactic - cos if they think we'll accept any old shite, that's what they'll give us.

I guess it's passed you by that both sides want the best deal for their own side that they can get.

[zahidf]

9 minutes ago, eFestivals said:

to mono-thought remainers. 

Cos it's passed you by that no deal might be better than a deal. It all depends what the deal is.

Fact is we'll get the best deal out the EU that we might get out of the EU via this sort of tactic - cos if they think we'll accept any old shite, that's what they'll give us.

I guess it's passed you by that both sides want the best deal for their own side that they can get.

'No deal' is clearly the worse possible outcome, as per all the economists. It is VERY unlikely that we would get a worse deal than No deal. (Well, depends i guess if the government really is that incompetent)

[eFestivals]

28 minutes ago, zahidf said:

'No deal' is clearly the worse possible outcome

It's not. That's just your mono-thought - no-thought - telling you that.

To give an extreme example, the EU might want to charge us £100Bn a year for SM/CU access.

As i said that's an extreme example, but there's always a charge-point where no deal becomes better than the deal on offer.

30 minutes ago, zahidf said:

It is VERY unlikely that we would get a worse deal than No deal.

why is it, if we're saying we'll suck-up the only deal they offer us...?

No differently to how the UK approaches this, the EU will try to get the most advantageous deal  ... and if the other side is a wuss, they'll make it as advantageous as they possibly can.

The only 'fair deal' is the deal that both sides are able to accept.

[eFestivals]

I wonder if the Corbyn Youth are paying attention this time, or whether they're still doing that insane projectionism thing where they pretend that JC is the 2nd coming...?

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2018/jan/08/jeremy-corbyn-eu-single-market-after-brexit

[zahidf]

Still at least the govt know what they are doing

 

[eFestivals]

3 minutes ago, zahidf said:

Still at least the govt know what they are doing

get back to us when there's someone who knows what they're doing.

Jez being as shit as the tories while voting for the tories isn't anything I can vote for. What about you?

[zahidf]

2 minutes ago, eFestivals said:

get back to us when there's someone who knows what they're doing.

Jez being as shit as the tories while voting for the tories isn't anything I can vote for. What about you?

Nope

Ill see what their public manifesto thing is on it, but i wont vote for my labour mp if they agree with no single market

 

Lib dems it is!

[eFestivals]

5 minutes ago, zahidf said:

i wont vote for my labour mp if they agree with no single market

I wouldn't have voted Labour back in June if I didn't have a local MP who was against brexit ... and didn't you support Jez's sanctions and slagging (and the Momentum hatred) of people like her...?

Next election, for me, it's not about what an individual says. It's about what party policy is.

Cos there's fuck all point in voting for an MP against brexit when the party is for brexit. There's only one outcome, particularly with c**ts like Lansman now *really* running the show.

Jez = puppet. A puppet who's getting what he's wanted for 40 years as he's continually voted with the tory headbangers: the hardest brexit.

[zahidf]

20 minutes ago, eFestivals said:

I wouldn't have voted Labour back in June if I didn't have a local MP who was against brexit ... and didn't you support Jez's sanctions and slagging (and the Momentum hatred) of people like her...?

 

Nope. Ive made it clear im against threats of deselection.

[zahidf]

Yeah, that'll impress a frenchman

 

[eFestivals]

just read this at the guardian...
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/blog/live/2018/jan/10/pmqs-brexit-hammond-davis-excluding-city-from-single-market-after-brexit-will-put-eu-financial-stability-at-risk-hammond-and-davis-claim-politics-live?page=with:block-5a55e999e4b034b6630d27e8#block-5a55e999e4b034b6630d27e8

Labour is likely to announce by the spring that it wants to stay indefinitely in a modified version of the European customs union.

Which is just another version of cake and eat it, cos the EU is not going to modify the CU terms for 27 other countries to benefit the UK.

[zahidf]

Someone is worried about their pension

 

[The Nal]

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/brexit-nigel-farage-second-referendum-eu-membership-wright-stuff-video-ukip-maybe-leader-a8153106.html

 

[eFestivals]

6 minutes ago, The Nal said:

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/brexit-nigel-farage-second-referendum-eu-membership-wright-stuff-video-ukip-maybe-leader-a8153106.html

I'm loving this...

"What is for certain is that the Cleggs, the Blairs, the Adonises will never, ever, ever give up. They will go on whinging and whining and moaning all the way through this process."

It reminds me of 40 years of the same from twats like Farage. 

[eFestivals]

not sure i would have expected this, but a director of Open Europe has come out against the UK staying in (just) the Customs Union.

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2018/jan/11/eu-customs-union-brexit-disastrous-britain-labour-europe

Personally, I still think there's the possibility of a customised deal for the UK - but only if the EU wants to grant one, and they might not. Even if we get one it's going to have worse terms overall than what we have now, that part is guaranteed.

edit: ha! I should pay more attention. The writer is a tory party candidate, and Open Europe aren't really what their title implies.

 

Edited January 11, 2018 by eFestivals

[eFestivals]

Sturgeon has published a Brexit impact assessment.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/blog/live/2018/jan/15/brexit-impact-analysis-nicola-sturgeon-to-publish-scottish-governments-brexit-impact-analysis-politics-live?page=with:block-5a5c90f1e4b003d428b08a35#block-5a5c90f1e4b003d428b08a35

I wonder if she's critiqued her own previous not-actually single-market or CU plans for Scotland?

And i wonder if she's bothered to tell us all why it's desperately important for Scotland to stay in a single market with a small buyer while it's of no importance to stay in a single market with a MUCH MUCH bigger buyer...?

But what i do think is that Sturgeon probably isn't helping the anti-brexit thing by doing stuff like this, as I reckon plenty of people will think she's doing what she thinks is good for Scottish indy &/or what will be good for a future indy Scotland, rather than what might be good for the UK.

For the people whose minds need changing about brexit, that's the very opposite starting point for them to perhaps change their minds.