Brexit Schmexit

[MrZigster]

On 11 May 2018 at 7:46 AM, eFestivals said:

worked for the poll tax.

saw a load of truckers asked what they thought on TV the other day, and every one of them said brexit wouldn't make a difference.

I can only guess they're employed drivers (rather than self-employed) who prefer paid-forced-stops rather than the unpaid tachograph-enforced stops. Or just stupid.

But did it really work for the Poll Tax? We got the Council Tax instead three years later and imo it wasn't that much different.

I often wonder what it would be like if we still just had The Rates. You payed £x p.a. on the value of any property you owned iirc.

Or, if the replacement Council Tax laws were, you pay £x p.a per extra property you own, multiplyed by everybody who lives in any said extra property you own. And it's you. You the property owner that has to pay this tax. No get outs.

As for the truckers. I think we may have seen the same bit of film.

How can they know what the politicians and diplomats may decide?

Edited May 14, 2018 by MrZigster

[eFestivals]

5 hours ago, MrZigster said:

But did it really work for the Poll Tax? We got the Council Tax instead three years later and imo it wasn't that much different.

I often wonder what it would be like if we still just had The Rates. You payed £x p.a. on the value of any property you owned iirc.

I'm of the opinion (and always have been) that we should have kept the old rating system and that council tax is almost as big a con as the poll tax - but the public got the govt to change course on the poll tax.

 

5 hours ago, MrZigster said:

Or, if the replacement Council Tax laws were, you pay £x p.a per extra property you own, multiplyed by everybody who lives in any said extra property you own. And it's you. You the property owner that has to pay this tax. No get outs.

who writes the cheque doesn't much matter in the end. If the landlord writes the cheque then its cost is passed back to the tenants. It's always the 'users' who pay in the end no matter what system is used for taxing land/buildings.

5 hours ago, MrZigster said:

As for the truckers. I think we may have seen the same bit of film.

How can they know what the politicians and diplomats may decide?

I think it's just another version of the leave campaign lies - that the EU will roll over and give the UK a fantastic deal.

I've always said that whatever the outcome the deal will not be as good as we have now, as well as pointing out that the EU has its red lines too - because if the UK gets as good a deal outside of the EU the EU ceases to serve any purpose for its members.

[feral chile]

Given this

https://news.sky.com/story/austria-calls-for-overhaul-of-eu-free-movement-11389831

If the EU changed its free mivement rules, what might be the odds of us leaving to honour the vote, then holding a referendum to join a reformed EU?

In my head, I keep imagining the talks really being around how we can limit the damage of Cameron calling the referendum.

[eFestivals]

2 minutes ago, feral chile said:

Given this

https://news.sky.com/story/austria-calls-for-overhaul-of-eu-free-movement-11389831

If the EU changed its free mivement rules, what might be the odds of us leaving to honour the vote, then holding a referendum to join a reformed EU?

In my head, I keep imagining the talks really being around how we can limit the damage of Cameron calling the referendum.

there's already a proposal floating around to allow an 'emergency brake' on free movement, from France or Germany I think.

The new Italian govt presents a big problem tho, as they're talking about deporting 500,000 people as well as welching on 440bn euros of debt. Times of crisis tend not to be the times when rules get changed, as a crisis tends to be about trying to hold someone to the rules.

You know that thing brexiters say, about how the eu is fatally flawed and is about to collapse? I reckon that theory might be about to be tested. 

[zahidf]

 

[eFestivals]

"no new impediments to trade" also means the EU's customs union, too. It appears to be more than just the single market.

But anyway, it's progress, Labour moving towards where they should have been all along. 

[eFestivals]

turns out it's no change of position of position at all, and it's all about Corbyn trying to ensure that the Lords amendment doesn't pass - and a Labour amendment won't be supported by tories, and Jez knows it.

So rather than progress, it's a deliberate attempt to try and ensure a hard brexit. Thanks Jez.

[eFestivals]

12 anti-brexit tories have tabled a 'stay in the EEA' motion.

What's Jez gonna do? Screw up the chance to get a half-decent brexit (as opposed to a May disaster)?

 

 

[feral chile]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-44230865

Quote

 

Ninety-nine percent of seasonal workers on British farms come from Eastern Europe. Two-thirds of these come from Romania and Bulgaria.

Kent-based AG Recruitment and Management works in Romania to supply labour for 80 growers across the UK.

Over the next few months it needs to find 4,000 people to pick strawberries, raspberries, and eventually apples and pears. The agency is nowhere near that target, and is having to call farmers to say it will not have enough pickers for them.

According to co-director, Estera Amesz, the numbers of people wanting to work in Britain fell sharply after Brexit. A key issue was the fall in the value of the pound. She says it is also down to the uncertainty; people aren't sure what documents they now need.

 

 

[eFestivals]

9 minutes ago, feral chile said:

A key issue was the fall in the value of the pound.

it's that.

People go to work abroad for stuff like fruit picking to earn big money compared to at home, and because of the fall in the pound the UK is no longer offering particularly good money.

And for Romanians and Bulgarians, it's apparently the case that language issues are much less in the richer southern EU states (Italy & Spain), plus the better climate - and now as-good or better pay than they'd get in the UK.

[feral chile]

11 minutes ago, eFestivals said:

it's that.

People go to work abroad for stuff like fruit picking to earn big money compared to at home, and because of the fall in the pound the UK is no longer offering particularly good money.

And for Romanians and Bulgarians, it's apparently the case that language issues are much less in the richer southern EU states (Italy & Spain), plus the better climate - and now as-good or better pay than they'd get in the UK.

Yep, I know this used to be cash in hand work at one stage. It's hard work but not well paid. Yet vital.

https://www.indeed.co.uk/m/viewjob?jk=c8b48f83994b1617&from=serp&prevUrl=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.indeed.co.uk%2Fm%2Fjobs%3Fq%3DFruit%2BPicking%26l%3DEngland

Quote

 

Fruit Picker
Outstaff Recruitment
-
Seaford
£7.85 an hour
Temporary
Our client, a prestigious winery and vineyard based on the outskirts of Eastbourne, have tasked us with sourcing some labourers for a weeks work of fruit picking and general labouring work.

We will need a minimum of 45 people a day to help our client bring in their harvest – late September and October. They will house you and feed you, however they will expect you to work hard, pick tonnes of grapes and have a lot of fun.

We are looking for people who can give at least a week of their time, who are fit, healthy and hard working.

So if you know of students who want to earn money before going on gap years, or groups who just want to get away from the rat race for a paid working holiday, please get in touch and apply below.

 

 

Edited June 6, 2018 by feral chile

[eFestivals]

8 minutes ago, feral chile said:

Yep, I know this used to be cash in hand work at one stage. It's hard work but not well paid. Yet vital.

then perhaps Brits should be doing it, rather than saying it's below us and only good for foreigners?

[feral chile]

Working conditions:

https://www.sagroup.co.uk/Secondary.aspx?id=8

Quote

 

FRUIT PICKING JOBS
Fruit Harvesting

When picking fruit, you will be required to pick a targeted number of trays of berries per hour. A bonus is also set allowing workers the opportunity to earn extra. The target and bonus will depend on the quality of the crop, the weather and time of the season. 

Due to crop availability, customer demand and the weather we are unable to give you any assurance about the continuity of work. You will only be offered work when it is available. This condition is reflected in your contract. 

As the fruit needs to be picked in the coolest part of the day, work may start as early as 4.30 am. Depending on the availability of work you will normally work a five day week, but we may ask you to work some additional time, particularly during the peak harvest period. Working hours per week cannot exceed 60. Rest days will be allocated by the company and will be at least 2 in 14. 

All seasonal workers must realise that crops can be delayed by weather conditions which may result in you working less than five days per week. This generally only happens for a short period of time and most workers can gain this time back as the season advances.

Picking Strawberries

The main job is to pick and maintain strawberries to be sold to major supermarkets. The best quality strawberries are picked into small plastic containers called punnets. These are termed First Class strawberries, and are sold to the major supermarkets. 

First Class strawberries are a good shape with a nice, even, red coloring. The lower quality and misshapen strawberries are picked into plastic trays. These are called Second Class strawberries. Diseased and pest-damaged strawberries cannot be sold, but must still be picked in order to clean the plants properly. 

Cleaning the plants prepares them for the next pick of berries to mature and ripen, and is essential in order to keep the plants healthy. If all of the ripe First Class and Second Class strawberries are picked, and plants cleaned properly, the next pick of berries will have less Second Class, thus enabling you to make more money by picking more First Class strawberries.

Picking Asparagus

Asparagus is a vegetable grown in the ground. Each asparagus plant produces a number of spears through its harvesting cycle. It throws out 2 to 3 spears at a time. Each can grow as fast as 2 cm per hour in hot and sunny weather conditions. This makes asparagus highly volatile to temperatures and requires different picking patterns. When it is hot, asparagus is picked twice a day. 

You will be cutting it with a knife close to the ground, bending towards it each time you need to collect a bundle of spears. When picking you will be following a tractor and will do so with a group of people - your team members. Your success as of a picker will depend on your productivity and that of your team.

 

 

[feral chile]

1 minute ago, eFestivals said:

then perhaps Brits should be doing it, rather than saying it's below us and only good for foreigners?

Just posted some more stuff relating to working conditions. Trouble is, it's seasonal and unreliable work.

[eFestivals]

3 minutes ago, feral chile said:

Just posted some more stuff relating to working conditions. Trouble is, it's seasonal and unreliable work.

but it's work, while some people choose not to work but think it's OK for others to have to travel to foreign lands to do that work instead.

[feral chile]

2 minutes ago, eFestivals said:

but it's work, while some people choose not to work but think it's OK for others to have to travel to foreign lands to do that work instead.

I suspect the time it takes to set up new benefit claims will hinder British take up of this type of work as it stands. This used to be fairly popular with Welsh unemployed people historically, kind of a working holiday. No longer cash in hand though, so would need some kind of disregard or fast track return to benefits afterwards.

[eFestivals]

Just now, feral chile said:

I suspect the time it takes to set up new benefit claims will hinder British take up of this type of work as it stands. This used to be fairly popular with Welsh unemployed people historically, kind of a working holiday. No longer cash in hand though, so would need some kind of disregard or fast track return to benefits afterwards.

isn't Universal Credit designed to handle this sort of thing? I thought it was.

[feral chile]

3 minutes ago, eFestivals said:

isn't Universal Credit designed to handle this sort of thing? I thought it was.

Not sure, I don't think it's reached us yet. If they just suspend benefits payments rather than having to reapply, people might consider it. 

According to gov.uk website, this is how it works. Fingers crossed then, as I've been seeing all sorts on social media regarding food shortages after brexit.

[feral chile]

Found this that looks into the issues:

https://m.thegrocer.co.uk/554452.article?mobilesite=enabled

[lost]

6 hours ago, eFestivals said:

it's that.

Not sure if I mentioned it before but I read somewhere that the average salary in Warsaw is now higher than the UK as a whole.

I'm getting more convinced that everyone knows what sort of deal will be agreed after the theatrics. I'm currently working for a client who process a financial transaction on British soil for EU companies (the type we've been told must take place on EU soil or a country with financial passporting rights)

The company only has data centres in the UK and in the 9 months we've got left we couldn't even rent data centre space in the EU and migrate services in time let alone build a data centre. It hasn't even been suggested or looked at that all these Irish, Dutch and German banking services will grind to a halt next March if we have to pull the plug and many are still renewing  contracts this year for another 5 -10 years.

Edited June 6, 2018 by lost

[eFestivals]

11 hours ago, lost said:

Not sure if I mentioned it before but I read somewhere that the average salary in Warsaw is now higher than the UK as a whole

salary, or purchasing power? I suspect it's the later.

----

Elsewhere, I'm wetting myself at Davies apparently getting stroppy with May about the backstop.

This is the guy who said it would be "the easiest negotiations ever", and who is personally doing those "easiest negotiations ever", yet is demanding an impossible negotiating position.

[zahidf]

31 minutes ago, eFestivals said:

salary, or purchasing power? I suspect it's the later.

----

Elsewhere, I'm wetting myself at Davies apparently getting stroppy with May about the backstop.

This is the guy who said it would be "the easiest negotiations ever", and who is personally doing those "easiest negotiations ever", yet is demanding an impossible negotiating position.

the same backstop they agreed months ago in cabinet!

 

Anyway once the cabinet negotiations are over, we may have a few weeks left for negotiating with the rest of the EU

[eFestivals]

Just now, zahidf said:

the same backstop they agreed months ago in cabinet!

 

Anyway once the cabinet negotiations are over, we may have a few weeks left for negotiating with the rest of the EU

yep - two years later and the brexiters still don't know what the fuck they want.

Any decent politician would have them on properly on the ropes with this, putting out videos of all the things they said when campaigning for brexit and what they're saying now.

Instead, we have Brexit Jez, helping the tories herd us along to disaster.

[pink_triangle]

17 hours ago, feral chile said:

Just posted some more stuff relating to working conditions. Trouble is, it's seasonal and unreliable work.

I think that’s just making excuses. I remember having a crappy job between university. The English used to moan how the poles would make them look bad due to their work ethic. My friend (who worked long shifts on a farm) answer was work harder! 

Fruit picking may be a tough job, but it’s preferable to no job at all.

[eFestivals]

1 minute ago, pink_triangle said:

I think that’s just making excuses.

yep, the idea that work is only about personal satisfaction and enrichment and not about earning your right to live is one for the w*nkers, worthy of the most self-entitled tory.