Brexit Schmexit

[eFestivals]

6 hours ago, zahidf said:

Hard brexiteers saying the country needs to support Trump over May....

 

ermmm....

I think it's great that Trump is doing what he's doing here. He's saying "you can have a trade deal with the USA if you don't have one with the EU", which means the brexit headbangers will be isolating themselves and makes it more likely a sensible option will win out.

Likewise with Trump supporting Boris. It'll make some people VERY happy .... but the rest will take a stronger position of the opposite view.

[LJS]

On 7/13/2018 at 7:34 AM, eFestivals said:

I think it's great that Trump is doing what he's doing here. He's saying "you can have a trade deal with the USA if you don't have one with the EU", which means the brexit headbangers will be isolating themselves and makes it more likely a sensible option will win out.

 

How's that working out?

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2018/jul/16/theresa-may-narrowly-avoids-defeat-after-caving-in-to-rees-mogg

[eFestivals]

18 minutes ago, LJS said:

How's that working out?

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2018/jul/16/theresa-may-narrowly-avoids-defeat-after-caving-in-to-rees-mogg

it ain't over yet.

But anyway, who's to say what I said didn't impact into that vote anyway? I said "makes it more likely a sensible option will win out", not that a sensible option would definitely win.

[zahidf]

FFS

Vince cable missed it as well

[kaosmark2]

Lib Dems doing a good job being the party of Remain.....

[sjseabass]

Field, Hoey, Mann and Stringer choose to keep May in power. Absolute disgraces to the Labour Party.

[pink_triangle]

3 minutes ago, theevilfridge said:

Field, Hoey, Mann and Stringer choose to keep May in power. Absolute disgraces to the Labour Party.

They are pro Brexit labour mps and voting in line with what they think and what many labour voters think. I don't agree with them, but respect their right to have different views.

[sjseabass]

1 minute ago, pink_triangle said:

They are pro Brexit labour mps and voting in line with what they think and what many labour voters think. I don't agree with them, but respect their right to have different views.

On something specifically billed by the government itself as a confidence issue? Customs arrangements are more important to them than every single other issue that can be improved by getting the Tories out? Fuck 'em.

[zahidf]

25 minutes ago, pink_triangle said:

They are pro Brexit labour mps and voting in line with what they think and what many labour voters think. I don't agree with them, but respect their right to have different views.

Hoey doea not represent the Remain views of Vauxhall

[zahidf]

31 minutes ago, theevilfridge said:

Field, Hoey, Mann and Stringer choose to keep May in power. Absolute disgraces to the Labour Party.

Deselection

[zahidf]

CONVINCING

 

 

Edited July 17, 2018 by zahidf

[pink_triangle]

2 minutes ago, zahidf said:

Hoey doea not represent the Remain views of Vauxhall

While some remainets don’t represent the views of Brexit areas. 4 labour mps voting this way (as a proportion) is not out of line with the views of labour voters, in fact it’s probably significantly less. If Corbyn wasn’t leader his past voting record suggests he would have probably joined them.

[pink_triangle]

6 minutes ago, zahidf said:

Deselection

Corbyn was never deselected for opposing the leadership on many occasions, why should these be?

[zahidf]

3 minutes ago, pink_triangle said:

Corbyn was never deselected for opposing the leadership on many occasions, why should these be?

Stopped bringing down a Tory Govt. Corbyn never did that

[zahidf]

pretty scummy

 

[pink_triangle]

1 minute ago, zahidf said:

Stopped bringing down a Tory Govt. Corbyn never did that

Silly comparison, he never had the chance. 

[kaosmark2]

3 minutes ago, zahidf said:

pretty scummy

 

Yes it is, but other MPs in her party could have, y'know, turned up.

[zahidf]

1 minute ago, kaosmark2 said:

Yes it is, but other MPs in her party could have, y'know, turned up.

well yes. I said so above!

[sjseabass]

1 hour ago, pink_triangle said:

While some remainets don’t represent the views of Brexit areas. 4 labour mps voting this way (as a proportion) is not out of line with the views of labour voters, in fact it’s probably significantly less. If Corbyn wasn’t leader his past voting record suggests he would have probably joined them.

I'd like to think propping up a Tory government is out of line with the views of every single Labour voter, otherwise what the fuck is the point?

[pink_triangle]

56 minutes ago, theevilfridge said:

I'd like to think propping up a Tory government is out of line with the views of every single Labour voter, otherwise what the fuck is the point?

These MPs views on Brexit were well known and they were re-elected in the last election. Whether we like it or not their views are shared by a decent proportion of labour voters. Labour need to win working class Brexit supporting votes in the next election, if the party is seen to be hostile to MPs that support Brexit, they will be punished.

For the sake of clarity this was not a confidence vote. The chief whip threatened it to try and keep everyone in line. Lots of difference between threat and action.

[sjseabass]

7 minutes ago, pink_triangle said:

These MPs views on Brexit were well known and they were re-elected in the last election. Whether we like it or not their views are shared by a decent proportion of labour voters. Labour need to win working class Brexit supporting votes in the next election, if the party is seen to be hostile to MPs that support Brexit, they will be punished.

For the sake of clarity this was not a confidence vote. The chief whip threatened it to try and keep everyone in line. Lots of difference between threat and action.

Labour need to precipitate an election as soon as possible to stop this shambles of a government. You really think May could have carried on if she'd lost this vote? With the authority of the Tory whips shattered if they didn't follow through with their threat?

Nope, better to vote with the Tories over customs arrangements on the off-chance it might make a difference at the next election four years down the line, instead of getting them out now and potentially getting to implement every single other policy that they presumably joined Labour to support. It is an appalling dereliction of duty and they would fully deserve to have the whip removed.

Edited July 17, 2018 by theevilfridge

[eFestivals]

10 hours ago, theevilfridge said:

Field, Hoey, Mann and Stringer choose to keep May in power. Absolute disgraces to the Labour Party.

what you mean is that Field, Hoey, Mann and Stringer choose to support brexit.

Just like the leader of the Labour Party Collusion.

[eFestivals]

10 hours ago, zahidf said:

Hoey doea not represent the Remain views of Vauxhall

then why did they vote for her? They knew exactly what her views were when they voted for her.

[eFestivals]

7 hours ago, theevilfridge said:

Labour need to precipitate an election as soon as possible to stop this shambles of a government

Have you been paying attention? If Labour won an election it would still be a shambles of a govt. In fact it would probably be even more divided over brexit than the tories.

So while I don't approve of it, Jez abdicating his responsibilities is probably his (personal) most effective way forwards, even tho it fucks the country.

[pink_triangle]

7 hours ago, theevilfridge said:

Labour need to precipitate an election as soon as possible to stop this shambles of a government. You really think May could have carried on if she'd lost this vote? With the authority of the Tory whips shattered if they didn't follow through with their threat?

Nope, better to vote with the Tories over customs arrangements on the off-chance it might make a difference at the next election four years down the line, instead of getting them out now and potentially getting to implement every single other policy that they presumably joined Labour to support. It is an appalling dereliction of duty and they would fully deserve to have the whip removed.

I think you will find the Tory whip threatens a lot and doesnt always follow through, especially without a majority. I’m sure May would have carried on and will continue to carry on. The fact is being PM during Brexit is not a job I think anyone is desperate to take over, while a lame duck can do the work and carry the flack.

In a similar position there is no way Corbyn would have followed the labour whip to vote against a Middle East policy he strongly objected. If you accept that MPS will on occasions be independent, you have to accept that the independent view are sometimes different to your own. However they believe in these things, just as strongly as you have when you disagreed with the labour government in the past.