Brexit Schmexit

[sjseabass]

1 minute ago, pink_triangle said:

They don't have electronic voting where everyone presses a button, they divide into lobbies. People may notice.

Pretty sure it's too late to make concessions at that point, genius.

[kaosmark2]

58 minutes ago, theevilfridge said:

Pretty sure it's too late to make concessions at that point, genius.

It also brings about questions that will cause huge problems for future voting agreements. As the lack of trust gained from the tories not acknowledging the pair with Jo swinson. 

[pink_triangle]

1 hour ago, theevilfridge said:

Pretty sure it's too late to make concessions at that point, genius.

But not too late for Tory mps to hold back and change their vote accordingly if they think it could cause problems for the government.

[pink_triangle]

20 minutes ago, kaosmark2 said:

It also brings about questions that will cause huge problems for future voting agreements. As the lack of trust gained from the tories not acknowledging the pair with Jo swinson. 

I think people forget that labour MPs vote on things other than Brexit and need support of Tory mps to get anything through.

[kaosmark2]

12 minutes ago, pink_triangle said:

I think people forget that labour MPs vote on things other than Brexit and need support of Tory mps to get anything through.

Quite.

I think failing to acknowledge and hold up the bargain will hurt Brandon Lewis and others involved in Swinson's pairing in future votes for a long time. I don't really want Labour MPs acting similarly and then failing to get a different bill through because of it.

[sjseabass]

1 hour ago, kaosmark2 said:

Quite.

I think failing to acknowledge and hold up the bargain will hurt Brandon Lewis and others involved in Swinson's pairing in future votes for a long time. I don't really want Labour MPs acting similarly and then failing to get a different bill through because of it.

Are you saying Mann, Field, Hoey and Stringer were part of an actual voting agreement last night, like Lewis was? As they weren't paired, I'm not sure what point you're trying to make? Unless they literally took the Tory whip?

Edited July 18, 2018 by theevilfridge

[pink_triangle]

6 minutes ago, theevilfridge said:

Are you saying Mann, Field, Hoey and Stringer were part of an actual voting agreement last night, like Lewis was? As they weren't paired, I'm not sure what point you're trying to make? Unless they literally took the Tory whip?

They defintely have links with Tory Brexit MPs, just like Tory remain MPs have links with some labour MPs and labour/Tory mps will have links about individual issues. They certainly weren’t taking the Tory whip, they were voting in line with their individual (and long standing) personal beliefs.

[pink_triangle]

1 hour ago, kaosmark2 said:

Quite.

I think failing to acknowledge and hold up the bargain will hurt Brandon Lewis and others involved in Swinson's pairing in future votes for a long time. I don't really want Labour MPs acting similarly and then failing to get a different bill through because of it.

I would have slightly more respect if the torys were honest about the pairing issue, rather than say they forgot. It’s 2018 and technology should be used to allow MPs to vote when they have a good reason not to attend.

[zahidf]

8 minutes ago, pink_triangle said:

I would have slightly more respect if the torys were honest about the pairing issue, rather than say they forgot. It’s 2018 and technology should be used to allow MPs to vote when they have a good reason not to attend.

you would respect them more if they were honest and said 'we lied to and took advantage of a woman on maternity leave to pass close legislation'???

[sjseabass]

13 minutes ago, pink_triangle said:

They defintely have links with Tory Brexit MPs, just like Tory remain MPs have links with some labour MPs and labour/Tory mps will have links about individual issues. They certainly weren’t taking the Tory whip, they were voting in line with their individual (and long standing) personal beliefs.

If being buddies with Brexit Tories and their longstanding beliefs on a single issue are more important to them than a Labour government then they are welcome to leave/be kicked out of the party and run on that ticket at the next election. See how far it gets them.

PS. I'm off to a festival tomorrow without my phone so I guess you'll have the last word. Don't think either of us are gonna convince each other anyway. Might just bookmark the point in the thread so that when we end up with No Deal you can be reminded of your views at one of the chances there were to stop it.

Edited July 18, 2018 by theevilfridge

[pink_triangle]

5 minutes ago, zahidf said:

you would respect them more if they were honest and said 'we lied to and took advantage of a woman on maternity leave to pass close legislation'???

If they are honest they are scumbags, , instead they were lieing scumbags! As I have said rules should change to stop it happening, but no political advantage to the torys in helping youngish woman mps vote.

[kaosmark2]

37 minutes ago, theevilfridge said:

Are you saying Mann, Field, Hoey and Stringer were part of an actual voting agreement last night, like Lewis was? As they weren't paired, I'm not sure what point you're trying to make? Unless they literally took the Tory whip?

No, I'm saying that in their debates in parliament and discussions with other MPs they took a stance and said they were going to stand by it. If they're viewed as untrustworthy " in the perfect position to lie to the Tories and screw them over, weren't they?" as you described it, then they'll find it harder in future to get other concessions/agreements through.

[pink_triangle]

7 minutes ago, theevilfridge said:

If being buddies with Brexit Tories and their longstanding beliefs on a single issue are more important to them than a Labour government then they are welcome to leave/be kicked out of the party and run on that ticket at the next election. See how far it gets them.

PS. I'm off to a festival tomorrow without my phone so I guess you'll have the last word. Don't think either of us are gonna convince each other anyway. Might just bookmark the point in the thread so that when we end up with No Deal you can be reminded of your views at one of the chances there were to stop it.

They are also buddies with labour mps on other issues. Being a labour mps is not just a view on Brexit. Did they block increases in minimum wage, surestart, increased funding in education/health? They believe Brexit is best for the country just like many labour voters do.

There are certainly other times labour could have stopped Brexit. One example was picking a leader to succeed Ed Milliband. Many moaning about Hoey et Al decided to pick a labour mp with a track record of supporting Brexit as leader, who then didnt bother to try during the referendum campaign. Others (like me) felt a remain politician would be a more sensible choice. Others may look at how labour for years treated their working class support as an embarrassment. It would be simplistic to put the blame on anyone.

[zahidf]

No surprise but the Tories went back on all pairing deals

 

[MrZigster]

It was here or the "annoyed" thread.

Work requirements require me to share a car with fellow workers for a couple of hours each way every working day. A trapped audience.

One fellow worker the other day mentioned how they were so pissed of with hearing about Brexit all of the time.

They were so pissed off with hearing about Brexit all of the time that nobody could get a word in edgeways for half an hour whilst they carried on about pissed off they were about hearing about Brexit all of the time.

Serious levels of irony right?

I've been tempted to start a "Things that amuse you" thread for a while now.

[zahidf]

 

[pink_triangle]

2 hours ago, zahidf said:

 

Why does her opinion matter more than anyone else? What if she says the next general election result shouldn’t be accepted as she perceives it will make the country poorer.

[zahidf]

1 hour ago, pink_triangle said:

Why does her opinion matter more than anyone else? What if she says the next general election result shouldn’t be accepted as she perceives it will make the country poorer.

That's the Tory Mps option isn't it? Doesn't really work cos you can vote out a govt. We ain't got the opportunity to reverse Brexit

 

Also, not sure us affording is an opinion....

 

[zahidf]

 

[zahidf]

Just a totally normal thing that governments say when things are definitely ok 

[Wooderson]

The state of Corbin. What a meff.

[lost]

Could of easily been a Trump speech.

[zahidf]

TAKING BACK CONTROL

 

[zahidf]

An actual Tory MEP writes

 

[eFestivals]

2 minutes ago, zahidf said:

An actual Tory MEP writes

 

The first isn't really a biggie, it's a fairly standard view ... tho what he probably means via treason is that they get the "death sentence" (and hasn't realised it was finally abolished for treason 15-ish years ago).

The second is laughable, because it could just as easily be turned round on the brexiters, who are undermining the UK.