Brexit Schmexit

[sjseabass]

5 hours ago, eFestivals said:

they may or may not be required.

They don't happen on the EU side of things.

You sure about that? https://ec.europa.eu/taxation_customs/business/customs-controls/safety-health-environment-customs-controls/sanitary-phytosanitary-requirements_en

5 hours ago, eFestivals said:

The UK is not going to starve itself to keep to WTO rules (and anyway, WTO rules don't count for vital food supply).

As long as the UK keeps on sending the money, the EU will keep shipping us food.

They'll be shit loads of other problems, but incoming food won't be one of them.

Think I might go with the word of the guys running Eurotunnel and the policy director at the port of Dover rather than a guy running a festival forum, personally:

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2018/may/03/post-brexit-port-checks-could-disrupt-fresh-food-supplies-say-freight-bosses

[feral chile]

 

[eFestivals]

10 hours ago, theevilfridge said:

You sure about that? https://ec.europa.eu/taxation_customs/business/customs-controls/safety-health-environment-customs-controls/sanitary-phytosanitary-requirements_en

Yes. Why not actually read what you've linked to?

The EU wants checks on stuff arriving in the EU from outside the EU.

It doesn't give a shit about checking what's going out.

 

10 hours ago, theevilfridge said:

Think I might go with the word of the guys running Eurotunnel and the policy director at the port of Dover rather than a guy running a festival forum, personally:

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2018/may/03/post-brexit-port-checks-could-disrupt-fresh-food-supplies-say-freight-bosses

You think the UK will decide to starve itself ... ?

Those checks are so very important that people have to starve, while those checks don't happen now...?

When nothing about the food production standards has changed? :lol:  

And some people say the brexiters are thick.

[feral chile]

13 minutes ago, eFestivals said:

Yes. Why not actually read what you've linked to?

The EU wants checks on stuff arriving in the EU from outside the EU.

It doesn't give a shit about checking what's going out.

 

You think the UK will decide to starve itself ... ?

Those checks are so very important that people have to starve, while those checks don't happen now...?

When nothing about the food production standards has changed? :lol:  

And some people say the brexiters are thick.

You might have missed my link earlier...

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-kent-45021133

A giant 13-mile "lorry park" on the M20 could last for years if there is a no-deal Brexit, a council has warned.

An assessment by Dover council has expressed concern over how ports would cope with the potential situation.

The document is critical of the slow pace of work on a "temporary" scheme, named Operation Brock, and said "there does not appear to be a Plan B".

A government spokesman said it was working with "a range of partners on contingency plans".

Operation Stack is currently used on closed sections of the M20 in Kent, where lorries park while waiting to cross the English Channel when traffic is disrupted.

The new strategy, Operation Brock, plans to use a contraflow to keep the roads open when problems arise.

The Dover council report stated: "A 13-mile stretch of the coast-bound section of the M20, between junction eight near Maidstone and junction nine near Ashford, will be earmarked to hold heavy goods vehicles, in what will effectively become a giant temporary lorry park holding around 2,000 lorries.

"It is likely a permanent solution will not be in place for many years if enacted through current planning processes and procedures."

[eFestivals]

6 minutes ago, feral chile said:

You might have missed my link earlier...

you might have bothered to get your brain in place before posting that.

Are you saying that the UK is going to park food imports on the M20 to let it rot?

[feral chile]

29 minutes ago, eFestivals said:

you might have bothered to get your brain in place before posting that.

Are you saying that the UK is going to park food imports on the M20 to let it rot?

That's the fear, yes.

[sjseabass]

48 minutes ago, eFestivals said:

Yes. Why not actually read what you've linked to?

The EU wants checks on stuff arriving in the EU from outside the EU.

It doesn't give a shit about checking what's going out.

 

You think the UK will decide to starve itself ... ?

Those checks are so very important that people have to starve, while those checks don't happen now...?

When nothing about the food production standards has changed? :lol:  

And some people say the brexiters are thick.

You miss the point entirely. We are part of the EU at the moment, and we have to regulate food coming in from third parties as per those regulations. If we leave, the EU becomes a third party and we have to impose the checks on food coming from there too. This isn’t hard.

Yeah, yeah, heard it all before, magical unicorns will come along and tell every importer that it’s OK to break the law, and that there are no food safety consequences to waiving all the checks. You are Nadine Dorries and I claim my £5.

[eFestivals]

7 minutes ago, feral chile said:

That's the fear, yes.

read your own fucking link and then call yourself an idiot.

[eFestivals]

8 minutes ago, theevilfridge said:

You miss the point entirely. We are part of the EU at the moment, and we have to regulate food coming in from third parties as per those regulations. If we leave, the EU becomes a third party and we have to impose the checks on food coming from there too. This isn’t hard.

"we have to" - nope. It's a *choice* by the UK govt.

A choice they'd waive in the event of a crisis.

 

Quote

Yeah, yeah, heard it all before, magical unicorns will come along and tell every importer that it’s OK to break the law, and that there are no food safety consequences to waiving all the checks. You are Nadine Dorries and I claim my £5.

Importers are not the ones who are required to make those checks.

There's no checks on EU foods at the moment. There's no greater food safety risk on food from the EU after we've left the EU.

Fucks sake, join up the dots.

Edited August 1, 2018 by eFestivals

[feral chile]

Just now, eFestivals said:

read your own fucking link and then call yourself an idiot.

So, what do you think will happen? Lorries just waved through?

That'll please those keen on immigration control.

[eFestivals]

Just now, feral chile said:

So, what do you think will happen? Lorries just waved through?

do you think they wouldn't wave those lorries thru if it risked people starving?

Fuck me, you're more inhumane than anything you claim of the tories.

 

Just now, feral chile said:

That'll please those keen on immigration control.

Food doesn't go thru immigration control. :rolleyes: 

[feral chile]

14 minutes ago, eFestivals said:

do you think they wouldn't wave those lorries thru if it risked people starving?

Fuck me, you're more inhumane than anything you claim of the tories.

 

Food doesn't go thru immigration control. :rolleyes: 

Illegal immigrants arrive on lorries.

 

 

[eFestivals]

9 minutes ago, feral chile said:

Illegal immigrants arrive on lorries.

 

 

both before and after brexit. :rolleyes:

[feral chile]

Just now, eFestivals said:

both before and after brexit. :rolleyes:

Didn't the French do the checks?

[sjseabass]

30 minutes ago, eFestivals said:

"we have to" - nope. It's a *choice* by the UK govt.

A choice they'd waive in the event of a crisis.

 

Importers are not the ones who are required to make those checks.

There's no checks on EU foods at the moment. There's no greater food safety risk on food from the EU after we've left the EU.

Fucks sake, join up the dots.

Under WTO rules, if you don’t have a trade deal with a country / bloc, you have to treat them the same as everyone else. No checks on EU food = no checks on any food. You join up the dots.

[eFestivals]

5 minutes ago, theevilfridge said:

Under WTO rules, if you don’t have a trade deal with a country / bloc, you have to treat them the same as everyone else. No checks on EU food = no checks on any food. You join up the dots.

Under WTO rules, WTO rules are exempt on food in the event of a food crisis.

But even if they weren't exempt, there's no meaningful sanctions that can be brought onto a country for what it imports. WTO rule-breaking sanctions are enacted on exports of the rule breaker.

[sjseabass]

15 minutes ago, eFestivals said:

Under WTO rules, WTO rules are exempt on food in the event of a food crisis.

But even if they weren't exempt, there's no meaningful sanctions that can be brought onto a country for what it imports. WTO rule-breaking sanctions are enacted on exports of the rule breaker.

Yeah, so they’d be exempt on all food, from everywhere, so we’re back to where we started about food standards.

[eFestivals]

1 minute ago, theevilfridge said:

Yeah, so they’d be exempt on all food, from everywhere

why would they? They don't need to be for any reason at all, and unlike the rest of the world we can trust the EU standards.

WTO crisis rules are a different thing from WTO standard rules.

 

2 minutes ago, theevilfridge said:

so we’re back to where we started about food standards.

Nope, we'd be in a 100% identical place to right now - with the same standards, the same checks, and the same speeds of entry.

Which is precisely why the food scare thing is a heap of crap. 

[feral chile]

1 minute ago, eFestivals said:

why would they? They don't need to be for any reason at all, and unlike the rest of the world we can trust the EU standards.

WTO crisis rules are a different thing from WTO standard rules.

 

Nope, we'd be in a 100% identical place to right now - with the same standards, the same checks, and the same speeds of entry.

Which is precisely why the food scare thing is a heap of crap. 

So you're saying, a no deal brexit would be like, being in the eu?

[eFestivals]

3 minutes ago, feral chile said:

So you're saying, a no deal brexit would be like, being in the eu?

as far as food imports are concerned, initially, yes.

No UK govt is going to interrupt the food supply; the suppliers only care about being paid, and there are no EU checks on exports.

Taking the piss against standard WTO rules would be a big international embarrassment for the govt tho without WTO consequences (as long as we're really trying to get our house in order for the future), but would be a hell of a lot less embarrassing for the govt than a UK food crisis.

[zahidf]

 

Edited August 1, 2018 by zahidf

[eFestivals]

and just to prove the point about what might happen at the border for things coming to the UK, this from today's Guardian...

A source close to the Home Office explained that the Border Force would likely have little other choice than to carry on allowing EU citizens freely into the UK as it would not have the staffing capacity, resources, or infrastructure to implement a new registration scheme in a no-deal scenario.

It currently takes an average of approximately 45 seconds to check an EEA citizens’ passport, compared to an average of 4 minutes for an non-EEA arrival.

If every new arrival was subject to 4-minute checks, there could be days-long queues at some British airports without a dramatic increase in the number of trained immigration officers.

[feral chile]

55 minutes ago, eFestivals said:

and just to prove the point about what might happen at the border for things coming to the UK, this from today's Guardian...

 

 

So basically, we can't deliver Brexit.

Well, well.

[eFestivals]

Just now, feral chile said:

So basically, we can't deliver Brexit.

we'd get there eventually ... but the pain is mostly in the disruption of having to make changes in how we do things (or the change of doing the same things [customs checks] on a much greater scale), rather than what would be happening after making those changes.

[feral chile]

2 minutes ago, eFestivals said:

we'd get there eventually ... but the pain is mostly in the disruption of having to make changes in how we do things (or the change of doing the same things [customs checks] on a much greater scale), rather than what would be happening after making those changes.

It'll be fascinating to see an analysis of what's changed once the dust settles.