Trains and Bricks.

[feral chile]

22 minutes ago, LJS said:

I have no intention  of mocking you or your views Feral. 

The problem is once you and Neil get involved in a discussion it goes on for days and goes nowhere. I scroll past most of it, not because I don't respect your views but because I'm not interested in reading Neil trying endlessly to discredit and insult you.

To be fair, I do the same with Neil & Lad.

So do I.

Do you see me starting new playpens to put the naughty children in?

No, I just scroll on by.

Let me worry about Neil. He's nowhere near as condescending as you and kaosmark.

Tbh I felt upset when you first did this, tried to laugh it off.

It was very patronising, given the other arguments going on in there. You haven't dumped lad here.

I'm feeling very hard done by.

Edited October 17, 2019 by feral chile

[feral chile]

10 minutes ago, eFestivals said:

PMSL  

You're prone to pile blame onto the English in Wales yourself.

The English in Wales are now Welsh.

Including me.

It is a dilemma for me, admittedly. It's hard for me to see Wales changing from the radical proud country it was for me growing up here. I won't be happy with a Conservative Wales.

And I admit, it's tempting to put the blame on new Welsh instead of us oldtimers.

I dont think it's the whole story though.

[feral chile]

34 minutes ago, eFestivals said:

Wales is not in a state of collapse. Hyperbole is in overdrive.  

But if it were in a state of collapse it's not going to be repaired by a section within Wales turning on 'the other' and pretending if it wasn't for them Wales would be glorious.

As a simple fact of geography it's hugely unlikely Wales will ever match the prosperity of the rest of the UK. Get used to it.

Wales is turning on the other, but not the other you mean.

And don't.

Just don't. I hope remote working saves us. We'll probably lose what farming's left.

?

[eFestivals]

38 minutes ago, feral chile said:

The English in Wales are now Welsh.

except when anyone in Wales refers to them as the English in Wales. Which happens a lot nowadays.

[feral chile]

1 hour ago, eFestivals said:

except when anyone in Wales refers to them as the English in Wales. Which happens a lot nowadays.

I don't get out much so I don't really get to hear that locally.

I would have thought it would be more likely in North Wales, because of language and housing issues.

I'd have thought South Walian racists would be your bog standard racists, targeting skin colour. 

English people are not sufficiently different to be othered.

Actually, I might correct that. Often, middle class English people are the ones most interested and sympathetic to Welsh culture and language.

Because a lot of us are working class oiks who don't even know our heritage (I say 'our' very loosely as most of us are from elsewhere originally).

Edited October 17, 2019 by feral chile

[eFestivals]

1 minute ago, feral chile said:

I don't get out much so I don't really get to hear that locally.

You don't need to go much for that one. You've done it yourself here a number of times.  

[feral chile]

2 minutes ago, eFestivals said:

You don't need to go much for that one. You've done it yourself here a number of times.  

I've tried to explain. I'm "English culture".

[eFestivals]

14 minutes ago, feral chile said:

I've tried to explain. I'm "English culture".

 

That's not what your posts said. You weren't even accepting mainstream Welsh culture (eg: Welsh govt laws on language) but going much further to the extreme.

[feral chile]

40 minutes ago, eFestivals said:

 

That's not what your posts said. You weren't even accepting mainstream Welsh culture (eg: Welsh govt laws on language) but going much further to the extreme.

Not really (if we're back to the chemist).

I was more shocked that you didn't think it reasonable to aspire to a solution.

Minorities in England often have access to interpreters. We got a bit stuck on you saying it was racist for a country to want to provide a public service in their own language, their own country's language. You seemed to be implying that visitors to Welsh speaking regions in Wales had more rights than those born there. It seemed racist to me. Or entitled, at least. Similar to expats demanding everyone speaks English in Spain, say.

Edited October 17, 2019 by feral chile

[eFestivals]

2 minutes ago, feral chile said:

I was more shocked that you didn't think it reasonable to aspire to a solution.

there's no solution in expecting a medical professional to give up their professionalism.  

[feral chile]

1 minute ago, eFestivals said:

there's no solution in expecting a medical professional to give up their professionalism.  

It highlighted a problem. It should never have happened, the government and the regulatory authorities worked at a solution.

This particular situation was a result of standard chemists not having the correct medication, so the parents were forced to turn to a supermarket pharmacy.

I just googled, there seems to be new measures in place:

https://seneddhome.com/2019/05/new-regulations-to-expand-welsh-language-duties-in-primary-care/

[LJS]

3 hours ago, feral chile said:

So do I.

Do you see me starting new playpens to put the naughty children in?

No, I just scroll on by.

Let me worry about Neil. He's nowhere near as condescending as you and kaosmark.

Tbh I felt upset when you first did this, tried to laugh it off.

It was very patronising, given the other arguments going on in there. You haven't dumped lad here.

I'm feeling very hard done by.

The thread was specifically started in response to an ongoing spat between you and Neil about whether or not Jezza had been forced to sit on the floor of a train  and whether it was some sort of momentum masterplan to lob a brick through a window.

The discussion had gone on long after either event could even vaguely be described as news. It was predominantly yourself and Neil contributing to the discussion. It was clear from a number of posts that many of the rest of us felt that there was nothing of interest in this extended discussion. 

I was perfectly happy for the 2 of you to continue the discourse and I felt providing you with your own bespoke thread would provide you with a place to do it without pissing off the rest of us.

Was I being a little mischievous? Yes  I was and I make no apology for that.

Am I guilty of engaging in Scottish Indy chat in the GN thread instead of in the thread devoted to the subject? Yes, sometimes. But this is often current news, is more often than not started by Neil and on a number of occasions I have replied to him in the dirty independence forum.

I have learnt through experience that there is no point in engaging with extended debate with Neil as it quickly becomes tedious and repetitive. I try & make my point a couple of times and move on. I assume people know Neil's style well enough to realise that letting him have the last word does not mean agreeing with him.

I'd recommend it.

 

[feral chile]

6 minutes ago, LJS said:

The thread was specifically started in response to an ongoing spat between you and Neil about whether or not Jezza had been forced to sit on the floor of a train  and whether it was some sort of momentum masterplan to lob a brick through a window.

The discussion had gone on long after either event could even vaguely be described as news. It was predominantly yourself and Neil contributing to the discussion. It was clear from a number of posts that many of the rest of us felt that there was nothing of interest in this extended discussion. 

I was perfectly happy for the 2 of you to continue the discourse and I felt providing you with your own bespoke thread would provide you with a place to do it without pissing off the rest of us.

Was I being a little mischievous? Yes  I was and I make no apology for that.

Am I guilty of engaging in Scottish Indy chat in the GN thread instead of in the thread devoted to the subject? Yes, sometimes. But this is often current news, is more often than not started by Neil and on a number of occasions I have replied to him in the dirty independence forum.

I have learnt through experience that there is no point in engaging with extended debate with Neil as it quickly becomes tedious and repetitive. I try & make my point a couple of times and move on. I assume people know Neil's style well enough to realise that letting him have the last word does not mean agreeing with him.

I'd recommend it.

 

It's never about the content really is it. Neil presses buttons, he knows which ones you, I and lad will react to. Sometimes I'll bite, sometimes not. I usually respond when I'm bored. Which I often am with other topics in the thread.

I still think it's out of order singling certain people out when others respond to provocation too.

It feels personal.

Imagine how you'd feel if I started a thread about you and started making jokey little remarks with another poster.

It's bullying.

There, I finally said it.

It's intimidating, it silences me, and makes me feel excluded.

Edited October 17, 2019 by feral chile

[eFestivals]

5 minutes ago, feral chile said:

It should never have happened

which wasn't in the control of the non-welsh-speaking pharmacist. He simply had the problem of a prescription he couldn't understand.

Forcing professionals to make a guess about something they're legally responsible for is what should never happen.

[eFestivals]

8 minutes ago, feral chile said:

I just googled, there seems to be new measures in place:

https://seneddhome.com/2019/05/new-regulations-to-expand-welsh-language-duties-in-primary-care/

which wouldn't have changed a jot of that incident.

[eFestivals]

3 minutes ago, feral chile said:

Neil presses buttons, he knows which ones you, I and lad will react to.

 

I just reply to what's in front of me. If it's fucking stupid I'll say it's fucking stupid.

Which is presumably when you feel I'm pressing your button. 

[feral chile]

Just now, eFestivals said:

which wasn't in the control of the non-welsh-speaking pharmacist. He simply had the problem of a prescription he couldn't understand.

Forcing professionals to make a guess about something they're legally responsible for is what should never happen.

Well it was actually bilingual, but there was a misunderstanding "half in English and half in Welsh" was what he/she was told over the phone.

It's about the service, not the chemist. I think we got off topic. It highlighted a problem that needs to be addressed. It's not about blame. It's about helping patients.

 

[eFestivals]

9 minutes ago, feral chile said:

It's bullying.

no, it's treating some things at the level they deserve.

When you repeatedly say that chemists should magically speak a language they don't speak - and you're not even prepared to put in the effort to learn - i laugh. 

Edited October 17, 2019 by eFestivals

[eFestivals]

2 minutes ago, feral chile said:

It highlighted a problem that needs to be addressed.

so when are you starting your own Welsh lessons....?  

Cos if you're not, this is one of those things where the wrong others have to correct their behaviour to your standards, standards you don't attempt to meet yourself.

[feral chile]

4 minutes ago, eFestivals said:

 

I just reply to what's in front of me. If it's fucking stupid I'll say it's fucking stupid.

Which is presumably when you feel I'm pressing your button. 

You know I'm going to react if you say I'm lying, and this Welsh language thing is blown all out of proportion, both by the Welsh language activists and by you (us) on here.

It's a horrible thing that a toddler ended up in hospital because of language difficulties, shocking when the language difficulties were in his own area. It would have been horrible the other way round too, and I'd still expect the situation to be looked at.

So I was shocked that you were so unsympathetic. That's it really.

It would be like trying to fill a prescription in Cardiff and the Welsh speaking pharmacist didn't understand the bilingual prescription.

We'd be like, "wow, that shouldn't happen, what can we do about it".

But you were all, "own fault choosing to speak the wrong language, can't expect the Welsh speaker to expect to treat English speakers in the middle of a strongly English speaking area".

Except if the reverse had happened, you wouldn't have applied those standards, would you?

[feral chile]

11 minutes ago, eFestivals said:

so when are you starting your own Welsh lessons....?  

Cos if you're not, this is one of those things where the wrong others have to correct their behaviour to your standards, standards you don't attempt to meet yourself.

I'm not in a job where I deal with Welsh speakers, which is why I wasn't allowed onto the Welsh course my employer runs for those who have a business need. I did enquire.

Edited October 17, 2019 by feral chile

[feral chile]

23 minutes ago, eFestivals said:

no, it's treating some things at the level they deserve.

When you say that chemists should magically speak a language they don't speak - and you're not even prepared to put in the effort to learn - i laugh. 

Who rattled your cage?

I wasn't accusing you of bullying. 

And if you went to the last chemist in your locality and the pharmacist couldn't speak English so you couldn't get your urgent prescription, you'd be thinking this was unfair on the pharmacist, would you?

Edited October 17, 2019 by feral chile

[LJS]

28 minutes ago, feral chile said:

It's never about the content really is it. Neil presses buttons, he knows which ones you, I and lad will react to. Sometimes I'll bite, sometimes not. I usually respond when I'm bored. Which I often am with other topics in the thread.

I still think it's out of order singling certain people out when others respond to provocation too.

It feels personal.

Imagine how you'd feel if I started a thread about you and started making jokey little remarks with another poster.

It's bullying.

There, I finally said it.

It's intimidating, it silences me, and makes me feel excluded.

Feral, if you feel I have bullied or intimidated you, I am genuinely sorry. That was not my intention.

My thread was started 16 months after traingate and then I revived it a further 6 months later because the subjects were still being discussed long after they were news. I didn't start it because it was you. 

In the context of some of the robust comments made by others on here, I thought it was a pretty mild & slightly humorous way to express my opinion that perhaps it wasn't news any more.

When I reopened it you gave a fairly robust response which is fine.

I could have started a thread for lad & Neil to knock lumps out of each other, or for folk to abuse Corbyn or Cymru Chemistgate!

But as my bricks & stones thread had been pretty much a heroic failure, I didn't bother.

[feral chile]

19 minutes ago, LJS said:

Feral, if you feel I have bullied or intimidated you, I am genuinely sorry. That was not my intention.

My thread was started 16 months after traingate and then I revived it a further 6 months later because the subjects were still being discussed long after they were news. I didn't start it because it was you. 

In the context of some of the robust comments made by others on here, I thought it was a pretty mild & slightly humorous way to express my opinion that perhaps it wasn't news any more.

When I reopened it you gave a fairly robust response which is fine.

I could have started a thread for lad & Neil to knock lumps out of each other, or for folk to abuse Corbyn or Cymru Chemistgate!

But as my bricks & stones thread had been pretty much a heroic failure, I didn't bother.

I've also tried to start new threads, and failed. I know you and kaos are not bullies, which is why I finally plucked up courage to say how I felt.

I think it cuts deeper precisely because it's so indirect. I'm much better at direct argument. Indirect references to a third person wxcludes them. It's way worse than confrontation.

Imagine you opened a new thread and found other posters were making fun of things you'd posted.

It cut deep today. I saw with a sinking in the pit of my stomach that there was new stuff in here, because I knew I'd be referenced.

It feels like shit

I can't even post in the news thread now. I feel too stupid.

 

 

Edited October 17, 2019 by feral chile

[LJS]

3 minutes ago, feral chile said:

I've also tried to start new threads, and failed. I know you and kaos are not bullies, which is why I finally plucked up courage to say how I felt.

I think it cuts deeper precisely because it's so indirect. I'm much better at direct argument.

It cut deep today. I saw with a sinking in the pit of my stomach that there was new stuff in here, because I knew I'd be referenced.

It feels like shit

 

 

I'm sorry.