Trains and Bricks.

[eFestivals]

10 minutes ago, feral chile said:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Welsh_Language_Act_1993

"obliging all organisations in the public sector providing services to the public in Wales to treat Welsh and English on an equal basis".

Which he did. He wouldn't fill a prescription in English that he couldn't understand either (just think doctors handwriting! I've had to go back to the docs to get a prescription rewritten by an english doctor in english for an english pharmacist).

It cannot be treated in the 'equal' way you're taking it to mean until the person has equal skills in both languages.

Edited October 25, 2018 by eFestivals

[feral chile]

2 minutes ago, eFestivals said:

because we've had this convo before quite recently and you said you didn't speak Welsh.

And if you'd recently learnt it, you would have said on one of the earlier times in this discussion I said you didn't, long before you started to feel you were losing the argument.

Go on, tell me I've got that wrong.  

Who said recent?

30 odd years ago. I went on marches too. Didn't go as far as vandalism.

There's a huge difference between learning Welsh and being fluent.

[eFestivals]

Just now, feral chile said:

Who said recent?

You said - recently - that you didn't speak Welsh (beyond a few words).

Either you lied then, or you're lying now.

[eFestivals]

1 minute ago, feral chile said:

There's a huge difference between learning Welsh and being fluent.

which probably explains how-come pharmacists are not obliged in law to provide service in Welsh.  

[feral chile]

40 minutes ago, eFestivals said:

Which he did. He wouldn't fill a prescription in English that he couldn't understand either (just think doctors handwriting! I've had to go back to the docs to get a prescription rewritten by an english doctor in english for an english pharmacist).

It cannot be treated in the 'equal' way you're taking it to mean until the person has equal skills in both languages.

And yet in a non Welsh speaking area we don't have this happening, despite the same style prescriptions.

So, an issue in Welsh speaking areas, but not in English speaking areas.

Explain that.

[eFestivals]

19 minutes ago, feral chile said:

So, an issue in Welsh speaking areas, but not in English speaking areas.

Explain that.

Too few of the Welsh speak Welsh.

It wasn't difficult, was it?  

[feral chile]

46 minutes ago, eFestivals said:

Too few of the Welsh speak Welsh.

It wasn't difficult, was it?  

 

46 minutes ago, eFestivals said:

 

Yet we can all get our bilingual prescriptions. And can understand the dosage instructions.

[eFestivals]

18 minutes ago, feral chile said:

 

Yet we can all get our bilingual prescriptions. And can understand the dosage instructions.

But - quite clearly - not everyone can understand something written in an unfamiliar language.

If you're stupid enough to want your pharmacist to guess at a prescription for your child then the consequences should be yours alone. I bet you any money you like that the majority of Welsh parents wouldn't want it guessed at.

Which I suspect is precisely why there's no compulsion in law for the pharmacist to guess.

If you want to pick an argument about it, I suggest you pick it with the welsh govt and your countrymen and not me. And while convincing them to swap resources from one thing to another to achieve it, don't forget to say what people will lose as a consequence of your want.

[feral chile]

3 hours ago, eFestivals said:

But - quite clearly - not everyone can understand something written in an unfamiliar language.

If you're stupid enough to want your pharmacist to guess at a prescription for your child then the consequences should be yours alone. I bet you any money you like that the majority of Welsh parents wouldn't want it guessed at.

Which I suspect is precisely why there's no compulsion in law for the pharmacist to guess.

If you want to pick an argument about it, I suggest you pick it with the welsh govt and your countrymen and not me. And while convincing them to swap resources from one thing to another to achieve it, don't forget to say what people will lose as a consequence of your want.

If you're stupid enough to want to guess at the dosage instructions on the prescription for your child, be my guest.

Me, I'd prefer to understand it.

Though you could work out 3 times a day. Whichever language. And it's not like it's a complicated translation.

Anyway, as you can see below, you're completely out of sync. You've got it arse backwards, as usual.

They've decided that it's important to have Welsh instructions, not the other way round.

So have provided a translation service to translate into Welsh.

If you'd have bothered checking your facts, you'd have realised this case was the catalyst for reform.

https://www.bangor.ac.uk/medical-sciences/news/bilingual-prescription-labels-can-now-be-introduced-26295

We’re always being advised that we should take our medicines as prescribed by our doctors and pharmacists and that we should follow the instructions given on the pill bottle or packet to the letter.

One way of ensuring that we do this is to give the instructions in clear language that is well understood- that’s why cautionary instructions are to be available in Welsh for the first time.

A Welsh language or bilingual service is vital for the welfare of Welsh speaking patients, according to an enquiry by the Welsh Language Commissioner.  A recommendation endorsed by the Chief Pharmaceutical Officer for Wales is for bilingual labels on prescription medicines to be made available to patients.

A team comprising language specialists and pharmacists at Bangor University and Betsi Cadwaladr University Health Board has made the first step by translating 30 cautionary instructions given to patients on prescription medicines.

These will now become available to all pharmacies and doctors, increasing the amount of health support provided in Welsh within the NHS in Wales. The labels are available in the online edition of the British National Formulary the standard pharmaceutical reference text used by prescribers, nurses and pharmacists within the NHS, and will become available in the next printed edition.

Mair Martin, Lead Pharmacist-Medicines Information, who led the project for

Betsi Cadwaladr University Health Board said:

“Following medicines instructions carefully can make a significant difference to health outcomes and safe use of medicines.  We hope that this first step towards making all cautionary and advice labels available in Welsh will lead to a greater understanding of and adherence to the prescribing instructions.”

On behalf of Bangor University, Professor Dyfrig Hughes of the Centre for Health Economics and Medicines Evaluation, commented that: “Pooling our expertise and access to different user panels and audiences, the instructions have now not only been translated into Welsh, but also tested to ensure that they are clearly understood by people taking the medicines. We’re grateful to all the participants who provided feedback on the clarity of the instructions. This is a great way in which we can share our expertise to bring benefits to as many people as possible.”

The All Wales Medicines Strategy Group (AWMSG), which develops resources to support prescribers and maximise health gain through the safe use and cost-effective use of medicines, is pleased to be able to approve and endorse this work.

Welcoming the launch of the new bilingual instructions Dr Stuart Linton, Chair of AWMSG said:

“We are pleased to have approved these cautionary labels for use in Wales. Having the endorsement of AWMSG will ensure that pharmacists across Wales will have the option to provide bilingual labels on prescription medicines, and this will help improve patients’ understanding and use of medicines”.

Prof Dyfrig Hughes explained that: “The aim of the present study was to develop Welsh language versions of the 30 cautionary and advisory labels. There is a need to also translate the 2000+ directions to the Welsh language, following the same robust methods, however this will require a funding investment.”

 

Edited October 25, 2018 by feral chile

[eFestivals]

11 hours ago, feral chile said:

I'd prefer to understand it.

I'll ask you again (because you've kept on swerving it)...

How can you understand something written in a language you can't understand?

 

 

[eFestivals]

11 hours ago, feral chile said:

Anyway, as you can see below, you're completely out of sync. You've got it arse backwards, as usual.

have I really?

Then you'll be able to tell me how that pharmacists was able to use a service that was launched TWO YEARS *AFTER* he'd been unable to read that prescription.

 

Edited October 26, 2018 by eFestivals

[eFestivals]

11 hours ago, feral chile said:

A recommendation

oh look, it's still just that, too.

[eFestivals]

11 hours ago, feral chile said:

the first step

 

[eFestivals]

11 hours ago, feral chile said:

in the next printed edition

still not published, btw.

[eFestivals]

11 hours ago, feral chile said:

pharmacists across Wales will have the option to provide bilingual labels

so important it's merely an "option".  

[eFestivals]

11 hours ago, feral chile said:

There is a need to also translate the 2000+ directions to the Welsh language, following the same robust methods, however this will require a funding investment.”

oh, look what hasn't been done, meaning there's not the service you're wanting till it happens.

Now, where's the funding coming from? I know, let's take it from cancer treatment, so there's less treatment for cancer patients.  

Edited October 26, 2018 by eFestivals

[feral chile]

5 hours ago, eFestivals said:

I'll ask you again (because you've kept on swerving it)...

How can you understand something written in a language you can't understand?

 

 

The Welsh patient needs to understand dosage instructions, the English pharmacist needs to understand dispensing instructions.

To the extent that they're going out of their way to translate instructions into Welsh.

The pharmacist isn't administering the dose now, is he?

[eFestivals]

13 minutes ago, feral chile said:

The Welsh patient needs to understand dosage instructions, the English pharmacist needs to understand dispensing instructions.

the pharmacist is obliged to pass on the dosage instructions with the medication. It's part of their professional responsibilities.

[eFestivals]

PS: I see you avoided the question, again.

To again show that you don't understand what professionalism is.

[feral chile]

6 hours ago, eFestivals said:

have I really?

Then you'll be able to tell me how that pharmacists was able to use a service that was launched TWO YEARS *AFTER* he'd been unable to read that prescription.

 

You're not paying attention. 

This case was a catalyst for the translation service.

Because of the needs of the patient.

The prescription instructions have to be in the patient's language.

So the pharmacist only has to understand the dispensing instructions.

You've been arguing that the pharmacist has a duty to understand the patient instructions.

Clearly not, the translation service is towards the patient, not the pharmacist.

[feral chile]

19 minutes ago, eFestivals said:

the pharmacist is obliged to pass on the dosage instructions with the medication. It's part of their professional responsibilities.

'As prescribed by your GP'.

[feral chile]

20 minutes ago, eFestivals said:

PS: I see you avoided the question, again.

To again show that you don't understand what professionalism is.

I've avoided nothing. You've avoided my answer.

[feral chile]

https://www.pharmaceutical-journal.com//news-and-analysis/news/rps-recommends-using-translation-services-following-welsh-language-prescription-row/11137421.fullarticle?firstPass=false

[eFestivals]

5 minutes ago, feral chile said:

You've been arguing that the pharmacist has a duty to understand the patient instructions.

he does. The pharmacist is responsible for everything to do with the safety of the medicines he issues. 

Funnily enough 'the one show' featured a case about just that within the last few weeks. If the pharmacist doesn't include dosage instructions he's falling short of the pharmacists professional standards.

[eFestivals]

4 minutes ago, feral chile said:

https://www.pharmaceutical-journal.com//news-and-analysis/news/rps-recommends-using-translation-services-following-welsh-language-prescription-row/11137421.fullarticle?firstPass=false

oh look, another recommendation, giving advice.  

Edited October 26, 2018 by eFestivals