Trains and Bricks.

[eFestivals]

Just now, feral chile said:

You're the only one wanting to make it about 'the English'.

I imagined you keep on mentioning them?

If it's all about the Welsh - which I've already said that it is - what is it you're trying to tell me, again?

[feral chile]

15 minutes ago, eFestivals said:

I imagined you keep on mentioning them?

If it's all about the Welsh - which I've already said that it is - what is it you're trying to tell me, again?

Language and culture conflicts and tensions.

[eFestivals]

15 minutes ago, feral chile said:

Language and culture conflicts and tensions.

between the Welsh*, all in the control of the Welsh govt.

(* or don't people living in Wales count as Welsh? You turning into a kipper?)

And the Welsh govt have decided to have a lesser system than you'd like, very obviously because of the resource over-head it would carry (and perhaps for other good reasons to).

Edited October 29, 2018 by eFestivals

[feral chile]

5 minutes ago, eFestivals said:

between the Welsh*, all in the control of the Welsh govt.

(* or don't people living in Wales count as Welsh? You turning into a kipper?)

And the Welsh govt have decided to have a lesser system than you'd like, very obviously because of the resource over-head it would carry (and perhaps for other good reasons to).

Yay now you're getting it.

[eFestivals]

4 minutes ago, feral chile said:

Yay now you're getting it.

I'm getting what I've been telling you from the off, that you've been rejecting?

Yeah, I know. Anything different would make me as mad as you.

[feral chile]

1 hour ago, eFestivals said:

I'm getting what I've been telling you from the off, that you've been rejecting?

Yeah, I know. Anything different would make me as mad as you.

No, you've been dismissing it all as racist Welsh nationalism.

And confusing the hell out of me by telling me I should learn Welsh, as if that would help Bangor patients getting prescriptions in their own language.

Or somehow thinking a Syrian speaking English to an English speaking customer is how it should be, while at the same time saying a pharmacist unable or unwilling tio provide a publuc service to a Welsh speaker in Wales is also how it should be.

So it's good you can get lunch and all, and the Syrian has made an effort to speak his customer's language, but the Welsh speaker's family can go fuck off as they're not entitled to treatment unless they speak English. Despite being in their home country. Is what you've said. So one rule for you, and one for Welsh speakers in Wales.

Nobody is saying the pharmacist was English, we don't know. Clearly they wanted an English prescription, however. 

It's about respect and equal rights for Welsh speakers. For me, particularly those with Welsh as their first language.

It gets more complicated for those requesting this for political reasons.

But for native Welsh speakers, why should they be an afterthought? They deserve the same rights as English speaking Welsh patients.

Edited October 29, 2018 by feral chile

[eFestivals]

1 hour ago, feral chile said:

No, you've been dismissing it all as racist Welsh nationalism.

no, I've dismissed what you've been saying as over-emotional Welsh nationalism. Because it was.

You started with ancient history, bemoaned the English immigrants to Wales, and posted the utter bollocks spouted by a PC MP. Etc, etc, etc.

While i pointed out that the Welsh govt had issued some advice and so had already looked at the issue, and they'd settled on something less than you were demanding.

[feral chile]

1 hour ago, eFestivals said:

no, I've dismissed what you've been saying as over-emotional Welsh nationalism. Because it was.

You started with ancient history, bemoaned the English immigrants to Wales, and posted the utter bollocks spouted by a PC MP. Etc, etc, etc.

While i pointed out that the Welsh govt had issued some advice and so had already looked at the issue, and they'd settled on something less than you were demanding.

If you're talking about Adam Price, I was still evaluating him.

And the Welsh Assembly are going further than I would have expected. They want instructions translated into Welsh, not translated into English.

Me, I'd just be happy to see it resolved any way that worked.

I think you should be able to get healthcare in your own language in your own country.

I can, as an English speaker. If you're trading in an area which you know has a strong Welsh speaking contingent, with something as important as healthcare, then you should be able to supply all patients, not just half.

You were saying it's the patient's problem, as they chose Welsh. Did you choose English at 2?

 

[eFestivals]

1 hour ago, feral chile said:

Me, I'd just be happy to see it resolved any way that worked.

the only way that would work to your satisfaction would be compulsion.

1 hour ago, feral chile said:

I think you should be able to get healthcare in your own language in your own country.

And they can.

They just can't make someone speak that language who doesn't speak that language.

1 hour ago, feral chile said:

You were saying it's the patient's problem, as they chose Welsh. Did you choose English at 2?

No, I'm saying it's a problem of language - that not enough people speak it to make what you want to work at the levels you want it to work.

The welsh govt can recognise the issues that stop it being able to be done. Your failing is that you can't.

[feral chile]

2 minutes ago, eFestivals said:

the only way that would work to your satisfaction would be compulsion.

And they can.

They just can't make someone speak that language who doesn't speak that language.

No, I'm saying it's a problem of language - that not enough people speak it to make what you want to work at the levels you want it to work.

The welsh govt can recognise the issues that stop it being able to be done. Your failing is that you can't.

Stop what being able to be done?

There should be provision for prescriptions to be filled.

Edited October 29, 2018 by feral chile

[eFestivals]

1 minute ago, feral chile said:

Stop what being able to be done?

There should be provision for prescriptions to be filled.

And there is.

But it can't be 100% perfect when such a low number speak the language. It's that simple.

[kaosmark2]

Talk about English irony isn't news. 

[eFestivals]

55 minutes ago, kaosmark2 said:

Talk about English irony isn't news. 

nor is feral being a year behind on the news.  

[feral chile]

6 hours ago, kaosmark2 said:

Talk about English irony isn't news. 

No, but I saw a post about British sarcasm, and thought, is English irony the same thing, is irony like rugby is for Wales etc. Some sort of weird national identity thing.

Because wtf is English irony apart from a quote from a speech?

Is it, like, some kind of national identity thing, that if you don't  understand it, you're not really British*.

Like some Welsh language activists say about the Welsh language.

Pity the Palestinian used the word English, it wouldn't have been an issue then.

And that was the first time I'd seen the whole thing quoted.

You could have ignored it, I was happy to have found the context of it.

It's still something that absolutely baffles me, as it isn't anything about othering.

*Or is not being English the same as not being British?

English irony, not British irony.

 

 

Edited March 11, 2019 by feral chile

[feral chile]

6 hours ago, kaosmark2 said:

Talk about English irony isn't news. 

And you, Mr Kaos!

When you point out lots of old news as reasons for suspensions etc., I don't make snippy little remarks that it's not news.

You can't cherrypick the old news that supports your bias, and diss the old news that challenges it.

 

 

[kaosmark2]

1 hour ago, feral chile said:

And you, Mr Kaos!

When you point out lots of old news as reasons for suspensions etc., I don't make snippy little remarks that it's not news.

You can't cherrypick the old news that supports your bias, and diss the old news that challenges it.

Williamson had a long series of about 20 things he'd done that had led up to the suspension, with the suspension being news.

I'm not even engaging with you any more on antisemitism. It's another tired argument that has become circular and tedious.

[feral chile]

.

 

 

Edited March 11, 2019 by feral chile

[feral chile]

.

Edited March 11, 2019 by feral chile

[feral chile]

1 hour ago, kaosmark2 said:

Williamson had a long series of about 20 things he'd done that had led up to the suspension, with the suspension being news.

I'm not even engaging with you any more on antisemitism. It's another tired argument that has become circular and tedious.

I'm not even engaging with you any more on antisemitism. It's another tired argument that has become circular and tedious.

And negative and personal.

[kaosmark2]

Yes, which is part of why I don't want to be involved.

[eFestivals]

11 hours ago, feral chile said:

I'm not even engaging on antisemitism.

corrected for you.  

Cos if you won't accept the fact of upset and the reasons for upset, you cannot have a clue for how to cure the upset.

[feral chile]

31 minutes ago, eFestivals said:

corrected for you.  

Cos if you won't accept the fact of upset and the reasons for upset, you cannot have a clue for how to cure the upset.

http://azvsas.blogspot.com/2017/09/anti-semitism-moral-panics.html

Read the article.

Take a step back and think of how you'd react if this article was about a fight between white and black kids, middle class and working class kids, how the way incidents are reported affects our social understanding.

you're interested in sociology, I believe, so you know of moral panics.

Now imagine that racism contains as part of its definition the denial of it being a racist attack when it's against one particular race. And also included in that definition is mentioning class or privilege.

Just imagine if this was the case when you were a middle class white person being attacked, and it would be racist to deny it was race related and mentioning privilege was racist.

If you can't see that it's not as simple as you're making out then I give up. And it's not me being stupid. Every academic report I've read looks at these issues.

It's not even simple in cases of violence.

 

[eFestivals]

45 minutes ago, feral chile said:

Take a step back and think of how you'd react if

... it was black people having these things said about them and not Jews.  

[feral chile]

10 minutes ago, eFestivals said:

... it was black people having these things said about them and not Jews.  

Yep.

If you'd bothered to read the article, that very point is discussed in there.

And you keep denying that people like Diane Abbott get all that bad abuse, and some, I can't remember if that includes you, say she brings it on herself.

Now imagine if you weren't allowed to say that, and it could get you suspended from the Labour party.

The facts are that most abuse and attacks are not directed against Jewish people but against other BAME groups.

Now you keep saying this doesn't matter, because this is a Labour problem, then denying it's a political problem.

Here you go, saves you the trouble of even reading the very first paragraph:

In the aftermath of global condemnation of Israel’s 2014 bombing of Gaza’s civilians, including hundreds of children, the UK media and that of the broader Western world became swept up in a moral panic suggesting that the world’s ‘real’ victims were in fact affluent, middle-class, white ethnic Western Jews. Apparently anti-Semitism was to be the ‘real’ prioritised problem, and it was claimed to be rife. However, in the UK, even in the face of media under-reporting, the extent of racism experienced by Black Britons and Muslims is evident, because we know the names of those who experience crippling attack, and who die at the hands of racists and disproportionately at the hands of the police: Dr Sarandev Bhambra, Mohammad Saleem Chaudry, Mark Duggan and Jermaine Baker have been some of the many victims of these various experiences. We even know the places of Muslim worship subjected to arson, such as the Finsbury Park and Bishopbriggs mosques. By comparison, where were the equivalent white ethnic Jewish victims of anti-Semitism? Even in the case of the much-trumpeted fist fight that occurred at Stamford Hill synagogue—which got considerable, disproportionate media coverage—the local rabbi, Maurice Davis, excluded anti-Semitism as a cause. 

Edited March 12, 2019 by feral chile

[eFestivals]

7 minutes ago, feral chile said:

And you keep denying that people like Diane Abbott get all that bad abuse, and some, I can't remember if that includes you, say she brings it on herself.

lies

I recognise she gets abuse, but I also recognise that those who tend to raise the issue of that abuse lump in fair comment as abuse.

Has Abbott been racist herself? Yep.
Has Abbott been one of the MPs to show the greatest hypocrisy? Yep.

These things get commented on an awful lot, and are fair comment and not abuse. They have also driven a dislike of her so that lots of people have a negative opinion of her.