Trains and Bricks.

[feral chile]

45 minutes ago, eFestivals said:

Even Corbyn knew they were English Jews!! (it's one of the facts that came out, he's encountered them previously).

So not a lazy assumption at all. He could have said they didn't get irony without need to throw doubt* on their place of birth. 
(* he didn't simply refer to them as English, he threw doubt onto what he knew to be the case).

Fuck's sake. Been round this before, not nothing goes in.  

The full speech starts off saying how important history is, Balfour etc. And how a history lesson would be useful.

Now connect that to this comment here, and you get to the English irony, which was a quote from a speech made by a Palestinian.

Who was being heckled for pointing out the irony of this.

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2017/nov/01/arthur-balfour-declaration-100-years-of-suffering-britain-palestine-israel

The creation of a homeland for one people resulted in the dispossession and continuing persecution of another

and Corbyn was saying that the 'foreigner' understood it better than the natives.

I'm not particularly impressed with the self righteousness of the comment, and it leads me to consider the points of those critics that reckon Corbyn is too black and white to see different shades of racism. And he definitely might be extremely factional.

He's an activist having to be a statesman.

that's the real issue.

 

 

 

 

 

Edited March 12, 2019 by feral chile

[eFestivals]

26 minutes ago, feral chile said:

I'm not making any claims about anything except the arrogance by some on here that they are absolutely right and it's obvious that they're infallible.

I'm not trying to claim infallibility for what his purpose was with his choice of words.

I am pointing out that whatever his purpose he othered them. He did what people do when othering.

[eFestivals]

20 minutes ago, feral chile said:

The full speech starts off saying how important history is, Balfour etc. And how a history lesson would be useful.

Well, it's not.

Both sides claim primary residence going back 3,000 years. History can't sort that out.

And while Palestinians continue to claim their birthright to that land, the simple fact is that it's Israelis who are born on that land today and not Palestinians. History can't sort that out.

And the Balfour Declaration might have been one of the bigger mistakes in history, but what's done is done, and history cannot sort that out.

History don't mean shit. We are where we are.

[feral chile]

19 minutes ago, eFestivals said:

I'm not trying to claim infallibility for what his purpose was with his choice of words.

I am pointing out that whatever his purpose he othered them. He did what people do when othering.

I've just been looking into this Richard Millett, like anything else, difficult to know the truth.

He's getting depicted as a Tommy Robinson type on one hand, and respectable professional on the other.

Edited March 12, 2019 by feral chile

[eFestivals]

10 minutes ago, feral chile said:

He's getting depicted as a Tommy Robinson type on one hand, and respectable professional on the other.

funnily enough, human nuance means he can be a bit of both.

He's as uncompromising in his support for the Palestinians as he is in support of unilateral disarmament - which is something where as leader he voted against his own party's policy.

And that means his thoughts towards Israel come second. He'd rather hang out with a 'death to all Israelis' type than he would a centre-leftie who recognises the difficulties on both sides in order for there to be peace.

Edited March 12, 2019 by eFestivals

[feral chile]

23 minutes ago, eFestivals said:

funnily enough, human nuance means he can be a bit of both.

He's as uncompromising in his support for the Palestinians as he is in support of unilateral disarmament - which is something where as leader he voted against his own party's policy.

And that means his thoughts towards Israel come second. He'd rather hang out with a 'death to all Israelis' type than he would a centre-leftie who recognises the difficulties on both sides in order for there to be peace.

That above quote of mine was about Richard Millett.

Though your comments about Corbyn are fair.

[kaosmark2]

I heard that Welsh racism is to do with bricks.

[LJS]

2 hours ago, kaosmark2 said:

I heard that Welsh racism is to do with bricks.

You're going off the rails, mate!

[kaosmark2]

4 minutes ago, LJS said:

You're going off the rails, mate!

I think my attempt to fix the GND thread has hit a wall.

[feral chile]

How come you come in here to be snidey when the derail is not about Labour, AS, Scotland, Trump, or lad abuse?

How come only when it's about Welsh racism?

Think about it.

Eta:

I get more incensed by you two doing this, because I respect you both.

And while I realise mcshed is closer to Labour, you show him respect for making the exact same points I make.

Sick of the passive aggressive snidey dismissive disrespectful behaviour.

Too angry to punctuate.

Edited October 17, 2019 by feral chile

[kaosmark2]

Because this is the thread for feral-Neil arguments.

You may notice that I also posted in the Independence one to try and make sure that topic mostly stayed there.

I tried to get the US election thread revived a few months ago to keep the Trump talk in, but at least that's mostly about news, even if it's still a single topic.

Your circular arguments with Neil about Welsh racism (and other things), are often not even tangentially related to current affairs, hence the repeated attempts to drag them in here. You can even see that from LJS' first post.

[eFestivals]

2 minutes ago, kaosmark2 said:

Because this is the thread for feral-Neil arguments.

erm, you don't get to decide where other people post.  

[kaosmark2]

6 minutes ago, eFestivals said:

erm, you don't get to decide where other people post.  

True enough! But several people did try to use this thread to divert them here....

[feral chile]

26 minutes ago, kaosmark2 said:

Because this is the thread for feral-Neil arguments.

You may notice that I also posted in the Independence one to try and make sure that topic mostly stayed there.

I tried to get the US election thread revived a few months ago to keep the Trump talk in, but at least that's mostly about news, even if it's still a single topic.

Your circular arguments with Neil about Welsh racism (and other things), are often not even tangentially related to current affairs, hence the repeated attempts to drag them in here. You can even see that from LJS' first post.

Yep joint indy ref because of Brexit not topical at all. 

Welsh Brexit vote analysis likewise.

You've got form for being snidey about Wales.

Remember a certain reply to a post about Welsh rugby? Which was quoted back to you with England switched for Wales?

It's all very well paying lip service to being politically correct, respect for minorities, etc. It's what you actually do that matters.

If you leave people feeling hurt and marginalised, think again about your values.

And news thread? Fair enough Brexit and Trump. But it's a politics thread, not news.

You think most of the stuff in there is more relevant because of your own interests. Not because it's news.

And no doubt Wales is not even a blip on your radar, because the Welsh are one minority group who are fair game for the pc brigade.

So subject to patronising and dismissive treatment from our cultural superiors. And I'm female to boot.

Am I the only woman left who posts in Discussions?

Edited October 17, 2019 by feral chile

[feral chile]

19 minutes ago, kaosmark2 said:

True enough! But several people did try to use this thread to divert them here....

I do apologise. Please feel free to drone on endlessly about evil Corbyn and how he treats marginalised groups by never taking them seriously. That's way more relevant to a news thread.

[feral chile]

Anyway, you two sloped off here just to be little bitches so stop trying to justify it.

[feral chile]

45 minutes ago, kaosmark2 said:

Because this is the thread for feral-Neil arguments.

You may notice that I also posted in the Independence one to try and make sure that topic mostly stayed there.

I tried to get the US election thread revived a few months ago to keep the Trump talk in, but at least that's mostly about news, even if it's still a single topic.

Your circular arguments with Neil about Welsh racism (and other things), are often not even tangentially related to current affairs, hence the repeated attempts to drag them in here. You can even see that from LJS' first post.

 

42 minutes ago, eFestivals said:

erm, you don't get to decide where other people post.  

 

35 minutes ago, kaosmark2 said:

True enough! But several people did try to use this thread to divert them here....

And so why are you 2 in here then?

What was your purpose apart from mockery of the fears of a woman whose country is in a state of collapse?

[eFestivals]

10 minutes ago, feral chile said:

What was your purpose apart from mockery of the fears of a woman whose country is in a state of collapse?

Wales is not in a state of collapse. Hyperbole is in overdrive.  

But if it were in a state of collapse it's not going to be repaired by a section within Wales turning on 'the other' and pretending if it wasn't for them Wales would be glorious.

As a simple fact of geography it's hugely unlikely Wales will ever match the prosperity of the rest of the UK. Get used to it.

[LJS]

14 minutes ago, feral chile said:

 

 

And so why are you 2 in here then?

What was your purpose apart from mockery of the fears of a woman whose country is in a state of collapse?

I have no intention  of mocking you or your views Feral. 

The problem is once you and Neil get involved in a discussion it goes on for days and goes nowhere. I scroll past most of it, not because I don't respect your views but because I'm not interested in reading Neil trying endlessly to discredit and insult you.

To be fair, I do the same with Neil & Lad.

[kaosmark2]

5 minutes ago, feral chile said:

Yep joint indy ref because of Brexit not topical at all. 

Welsh Brexit vote analysis likewise.

You've got form for being snidey about Wales.

Remember a certain reply to a post about Welsh rugby? Which was quoted back to you with England switched for Wales?

It's all very well paying lip service to being politically correct, respect for minorities, etc. It's what you actually do that matters.

If you leave people feeling hurt and marginalised, think again about your values.

And news thread? Fair enough Brexit and Trump. But it's a politics thread, not news.

You think most of the stuff in there is more relevant because of your own interests. Not because it's news.

And no doubt Wales is not even a blip on your radar, because the Welsh are one minority group who are fair game for the pc brigade.

So subject to patronising and dismissive treatment from our cultural superiors. And I'm female to boot.

Am I the only woman left who posts in Discussions?

I can't remember that comment, I can remember you referencing it a bunch of times, but after the second or third time of trying to discuss things, I got tired of you telling me I hate Wales and stopped bothering.

The title is news, but yes, it pretty much is politics.

I have very little interest in Lad's arguments with Neil and zahidf about Trump. The only reason I question its relevancy is when Lad devolves into conspiracy theories, not because I don't think it's discussion worthy.

Different cultural groups have different ways of being oppressed. If you start talking about things that actually happened, instead of just repeating Price's grievance mining and bullshit, I might engage a bit more constructively. I don't think that's any different to me being dismissive when LJS when he was citing WoS in Scottish independence arguments.

[kaosmark2]

37 minutes ago, feral chile said:

I do apologise. Please feel free to drone on endlessly about evil Corbyn and how he treats marginalised groups by never taking them seriously. That's way more relevant to a news thread.

I hardly reference Corbyn any more.

 

21 minutes ago, feral chile said:

And so why are you 2 in here then?

What was your purpose apart from mockery of the fears of a woman whose country is in a state of collapse?

Because several posters outside the regulars in the GND thread have commented on how offputting the several days long arguments get, and I'm trying to make posts to either discourage them, or move them elsewhere. And I include my own arguments in that.

[feral chile]

1 minute ago, kaosmark2 said:

I can't remember that comment, I can remember you referencing it a bunch of times, but after the second or third time of trying to discuss things, I got tired of you telling me I hate Wales and stopped bothering.

The title is news, but yes, it pretty much is politics.

I have very little interest in Lad's arguments with Neil and zahidf about Trump. The only reason I question its relevancy is when Lad devolves into conspiracy theories, not because I don't think it's discussion worthy.

Different cultural groups have different ways of being oppressed. If you start talking about things that actually happened, instead of just repeating Price's grievance mining and bullshit, I might engage a bit more constructively. I don't think that's any different to me being dismissive when LJS when he was citing WoS in Scottish independence arguments.

It is different because you don't go off into another thread to gang up on anyone.

I also scroll past loads of frankly mindnumbingly boring stuff, but I don't feel entitled enough to start entire threads about other posters. I just let you get on with itm

[feral chile]

1 minute ago, kaosmark2 said:

I hardly reference Corbyn any more.

 

Because several posters outside the regulars in the GND thread have commented on how offputting the several days long arguments get, and I'm trying to make posts to either discourage them, or move them elsewhere. And I include my own arguments in that.

Yep, but expect me to try to educate Neil about civic nationalism, and feel frustrated that people who claim to be sympathetic to minority groups find it boring or racist when one is being marginalised, just because it happens in their country of birth.

And expect me to interpret that as an example of what nashies get so worked up about.

You're not exactly changing the subject by skulking in here being passive aggressive.

So how again is that doing anything more than hurting me?

[eFestivals]

4 minutes ago, feral chile said:

expect me to try to educate Neil about civic nationalism

PMSL  

You're prone to pile blame onto the English in Wales yourself.

[kaosmark2]

9 minutes ago, feral chile said:

It is different because you don't go off into another thread to gang up on anyone.

I also scroll past loads of frankly mindnumbingly boring stuff, but I don't feel entitled enough to start entire threads about other posters. I just let you get on with itm

I diverted a load into the Dirty Independence thread. I also haven't started another thread, and you might want to reread the first page of this thread to see how the use of this one started, and your own response to it.