Formula 1

[DareToDibble]

Inspired by the Moto GP thread. Are there many other F1 followers on here?

I see Ricciardo has a 3 place grid penalty for the Australian GP already, good start. 

Can't really see past Mercedes/Hamilton running away with it again this year unfortunately but hopefully Ferrari will put up a good fight..

Any predictions?

[TheGayTent]

1 hour ago, DareToDibble said:

Any predictions?

A bore fest. Dull circuits, dull drivers, dull racing. 

Oh for the days of Prost, Senna, Mansell, & Piquet. And Hunt on Arnoux obviously 

[Room to sway]

Hopefully Red Bull will have a better car this year. Max was fantastic last year and to see him (and Ricciardo), the Mercedes and the Ferraris actually fighting for wins would be great.

Prediction: Hamilton wins his fifth Championship, Vettel gets mardy and rams into the Mercedes pit wall because he's a fucking child.

[TheGayTent]

First ‘race’ of the season, ‘won’ via a virtual safety car....

[LJS]

So, we've learnt that Vettel can win if he gets to the front. 

There was nothing to indicate that he would have had the faintest chance of that without a wee bit of assistance.

Nice to see Alonso in the top 5.

Also nice to see 5 manufacturers in the top 7 although i don't  think for a minute that there will be 5 challenging for the constructor's championship.

[mjsell]

Was a bit of a dud race. I used to love the Aussie Grand prix (mainly because I used to play F1 video games as a kid and as it was always the first track of the season I know every corner) - but the racing there has be boring as hell recently.

I hope Ricciardo has a good season - I think he and Alonso's racing style are my favourite.

[DareToDibble]

I think the season so far has pleasantly surprised a lot of people. It's a shame McLaren are still crap, love Alonso.

Vettel and Ferrari have been great yet somehow find themselves behind Hamilton in the table.
For the first time in ages I think we genuinely have a competitive season ahead.

From a gaming perspective it really annoys me how late out in the season they bring out the games for Xbox/PS. They always seem to do it with 3 or 4 races left. The equivalent of FIFA coming out in March. Crap.

[The Nal]

Decided to give F1 a go after years away and after the snoozefest of Monaco and that shambles in Canada I'm done for another for years. Lifes too short. 

[DareToDibble]

4 hours ago, The Nal said:

Decided to give F1 a go after years away and after the snoozefest of Monaco and that shambles in Canada I'm done for another for years. Lifes too short. 

I've been on holiday and was going to spend this afternoon watching the Canadian GP... not worth my time then?

[The Nal]

20 minutes ago, DareToDibble said:

I've been on holiday and was going to spend this afternoon watching the Canadian GP... not worth my time then?

Race was ok but theres one farcical bit. Wont ruin it for you!

[charlierc]

Seeing as our discussion on November/December's races were lost to the wipe, just wondering if things have calmed down from the Abu Dhabi antics.

Also if anyone fancies sticking their head above the parapet to make predictions for 2022 and the new cars.

[squirrelarmy]

I wasn’t going to revive this thread as I too was shocked by how the final race was handled but seeing as it’s back I’ll have my say. 
 

Those who follow me on socials will have seen my views. 
F1 has taken it’s next step towards becoming WWE, artificially introducing entertainment “for the show”. 
 

It’s a sport I’ve been watching for over 30 years and I’ve seen my fair share of contentious title deciders in that time. I was expecting a Senna-Prost, Schumacher-Hill/Villeneuve type collision being the deciding factor in the title race. 
 

What I wasn’t expecting was the race director to go against the rules and established procedure in order to artificially produce what they would deem to be an exciting finish. 
 

Was the poor decision down to inexperience by the race director? Partly yes, Micheal Masi has only been overseeing motorsport since Liberty Media bought F1 and has come from a marketing background. His experience  isn’t in racing, it’s in selling a product. 
 

I don’t believe he was the one calling the shots when the decision to only allow the cars in between HAM & VER to unlap themselves was made. 
 

I think he made the right call to start with. If he had decided to let all the lapped cars overtake the safety car as has happened in many occasions before then the race would have finished under the safety car, slightly flat finish but that’s how it goes in motorsport sometimes, it’s an battle of endurance over a season not just one race. 
 

His initial decision to keep the lapped cars where they were would have made for tense final laps. VER had the superior tyres and blue flags on his side so would have dispatched the lapped cars reasonably quickly, whether he would still have had the pace to catch and overtake HAM we’ll never know as we were denied the opportunity of seeing that grandstand finish. Had VER had won from that position then no one would be questioning the validity of his title. 
 

I believe someone from Liberty Media was in Masi’s ears telling him to reverse his initial decision in order to create the final lap “showdown” unfortunately any one who knows the sport knew that the “showdown” was always going to end up going one way because of the massive difference in tyre conditions. 
 

Horner played his part too. He knows the game, Red Bull know marketing. I think Red Bull have been working very closely with Liberty Media in order to make the sport appeal to their new American audience which has been drawn to the sport via the Netflix series.

“Let them race” has been repeated so many times over the season there was definitely been some back room discussions over how the races need to be decided in order to appeal to the new fans and therefore their profit margins. 
 

I’ve never watched the Netflix series, there’s always been enough drama behind the scenes in the sport to keep me interested without it being dumbed down and fed back to me in a mockumentary format.

Horner does love playing the villain role though.

 

It wasn’t just the final race that has put me off. There has been so many poor decisions made throughout the season. The joke of a “race” that was Spa, Ver driving Ham off the road at Brazil which was never even investigated during the race and then the massive kurfuffle that was Saudi Arabia. 

Liberty Media may have gained a lot of new followers for F1 in America but they have lost many more globally including myself. I won’t be watching again while Liberty Media own the rights to the sport.

For me the sport has died along with Charlie Whiting and Sir Frank Williams. There are no true racers left.

Enjoy your entertainment show, I’ll be watching actual racing elsewhere. 

[DareToDibble]

Had this discussion many times so I won't go into great detail. I think any talk of corruption or Liberty Media trying to influence the results is a bit too far in my opinion. I honestly think Race Control/Masi panicked about one of the best seasons in recent memory finishing behind the safety car so tried to ensure it didn't. In doing that they made the wrong decision (unless they had let all cars through), however I think it was just a very badly made decision, nothing to do with people being in his ear etc.

I echo what you have said about people speaking to Masi during the race, it shouldn't be allowed. Certainly not to the extent it was this season anyway. But Mercedes were just as bad for this as Red Bull - let's not forget that half way through the final race Wolff also came over the radio saying "Please no safety car". That's the same as Horner's "You only need 1 racing lap" They were both trying to influence the race director and both seemed to have gotten their way with those particular requests. I'm almost sure that every other team would have been making similar comments throughout the season, such as in the McLaren/Ferrari battle for example, they're bound to have also been on at him for their own benefit. That needs to stop.

As a side note, any talk of Hamilton leaving the sport is nonsense, there is no way he walks away from F1 without breaking the record and getting his 8th title.

[charlierc]

On 1/11/2022 at 3:37 PM, DareToDibble said:

Had this discussion many times so I won't go into great detail. I think any talk of corruption or Liberty Media trying to influence the results is a bit too far in my opinion. I honestly think Race Control/Masi panicked about one of the best seasons in recent memory finishing behind the safety car so tried to ensure it didn't. In doing that they made the wrong decision (unless they had let all cars through), however I think it was just a very badly made decision, nothing to do with people being in his ear etc.

It was basically like this imo. Hamilton was in a bad position either way - pit and he would be behind Verstappen and risk being behind him for a safety car finish, not pit and he was vulnerable to Verstappen doing exactly what happened. But I do think they could've let the unlapped cars through near the end of lap 56 and done it as close to normal as possible given compressed timings. Hell even start of 57 might've been less controversial. It was a no win scenario really but it's a weird achievement they did it in the way that annoyed as many people as possible.

As you say it came across as panic by Race Control, compounded by the decision to originally say "No unlapping", and further aided by a proper arcane scraping of the rulebook in response to the immediate appeal to find parts to justify the decision that seemed to amount to saying Masi basically had the option to do what he wanted. Which isn't a great place to be.

I mean, I'm still planning to watch 2022 races. Intrigued by the new cars and if the hype around Russell in a Mercedes is real as much as anything else. But I'm sympathetic as to why people are so pissed off with what happened at Abu Dhabi that they might need to won back.

I'm still not sure what I make of Hamilton, the radio silence and the question mark about his return tbf. It could well be that it's just a further dramatic narrative and he's already told Merc he's ready to stick to those who wronged him, or it could well be that he's decided this is a sign it's time to do something else for at least a little while. Imo it's likelier than not he will be back, but the mind does wonder more the longer this goes on.

[CurlyPutz]

I hope Lewis returns but understand if he doesn't. Not sure I want to spend all the pay per view cash next year on nowtv either way and I have been a fan for over 30 years. Gutted it ended the way it did. Nice to see this thread alive again. 

[squirrelarmy]

My final say on the subject. 
 

What has probably happened is that Mercedes will have threatened to pull out of the sport including taking their engines which would have meant a huge portion of the teams being unable to compete. 
 

A deal has probably been made to let Mercedes and Hamilton win next season in order to placate them for what went on this year. Hamilton will probably take that opportunity to retire. 
 

As for the future of F1, it will probably end up being more of a spec series. The cars will end up boxier so they can handle more collisions. They’ll probably also start reducing the clockwise running tracks. All those right turns will be confusing for the fans. 

[DareToDibble]

10 hours ago, Barry Fish said:

Mercedes are incredibly important to the series so it confuses me why they seem to play second fiddle in the power game to Red Bull who get away with a hell of a lot.

I think Mercedes behind the scenes probably did come very close to pulling out next year unless the FIA committed to a proper review which seems under way. 

I read today Masi is no longer on the FIA organisational chart - so maybe things are happening...

They seem to have split up some of the responsibilities of race director into 3. 2 of them are to handle the technical regulations and the like and the 3rd is to be just race director. They haven't announced anything officially yet but I would imagine it'll be Masi but with less responsibility elsewhere.

[DareToDibble]

20 hours ago, Barry Fish said:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/formula1/59987230

Shits getting real...

Can't help but feel that's going to be similar to when the Tories do their own internal investigations.

[DareToDibble]

The rumours about Lewis not coming back seem to be gathering momentum, although I'm still not sure I believe it myself. If he doesn't, though, it'll be such a shame. One of the best drivers the sport has ever seen should be allowed to have a "final race" where people can acknowledge him properly and give him the send off he deserves.

[DareToDibble]

Just now, Barry Fish said:

I actually hold more hope for it.  If Masi goes and a new structure replaces him - that will be enough.

If Masi stay...  well...

It seems a bit odd to me that they're starting on 17th (I think it was) but won't announce anything to the drivers until pre-season testing starts? By then it would be too late anyway for Lewis.

[DareToDibble]

I still strongly feel that he'll be there. I think if he was looking to leave Mercedes would be in the driver market by now and there would have been some kind of rumours coming out about who they've approached.

[Guest]

On 1/14/2022 at 2:49 PM, DareToDibble said:

It seems a bit odd to me that they're starting on 17th (I think it was) but won't announce anything to the drivers until pre-season testing starts? By then it would be too late anyway for Lewis.

I have a feeling that the FIA were hoping the issue would go away and the fans would forget. There still seems to be a lot of anger about it online so potentially thew FIA had no choice but to investigate further.

I have a feeling Lewis will be there partly because it sounds like there Merc car will be very strong, they've been developing the 2022 car for half of last season and I've seen a couple of things which says the engine is very strong.

I don't know if I can be bothered with the new season, what's the point when the race director/FIA can decide who wins the title in the last race?

[charlierc]

On 1/14/2022 at 2:55 PM, DareToDibble said:

I still strongly feel that he'll be there. I think if he was looking to leave Mercedes would be in the driver market by now and there would have been some kind of rumours coming out about who they've approached.

I saw one fairly obscure journalist rumouring they might try and prize Esteban Ocon out of Alpine if Hamilton turns around and says no for 2022, which could work for Alpine in one respect given they weren't able to find a home for their driver academy affiliated F2 champion Oscar Piastri, whose facing a year in reserve driver status.

That feels like quite a way off though. I still would be very surprised if we see no Hamilton in 2022, even despite all the chaotic antics in Abu Dhabi. After all, it does seem to have caught the popular animation as officiating misjudgement, which in some respects is an achievement to see this happen in a sport other than football on such a large scale.

[Guest]

This is a very good thread detailing the many decisions that handed Verstappen the title last year. When put like this it’s very hard to see that the FIA wanted to ensure he won the title. 

[Guest]

This is coming from the luckiest driver of all time in Max Verstappen. The cheek of him to go on about luck when he’s been handed the world title is stunning.