Formula 1

[Guest]

He's only in it for himself, there is no team with MV it's all about what's best for him and the team is there too facilitate his wishes. He now say's they should 'move forward as a team', of course he says that now when he's done something wrong. He received so much help from Perez last season and it's the least he can do but he's so selfish he can't even bring himself to repay the favour. Perez should never help him again.

[charlierc]

This seems to have been a pretty bad weekend for some team-mate pairings - Alpine's duo spent Saturday's sprint crashing into each other then blaming the other for why that part of Alpine's race was in the toilet, Stroll nearly crashed into Vettel in the sprint and Leclerc was similarly angry Sainz didn't move over to give him 3rd.

Verstappen is going to get it more, mind, and I can see it - Perez has absolutely done a lot of work for Verstappen in their two campaigns together, so this is a bad look in and of itself. But even then, just saying he's too far ahead would've been better than effectively going "Fuck you" as he did and probably given his team's top brass a few headaches to boot. He's said he'll help Perez if needed at Abu Dhabi but it'll need to be some spectacularly big help to redress some of these sins.

[Guest]

MV will never help anyone if it doesn't mean he benefits, he's a snake and is saying that he'll help Perez to save himself face. Horner has created this monster who thinks that he's bigger than the team and think that he is essentially the boss. RBR should come down hard on MV but they won't because they just exist to placate him and his very delicate ego.

[DareToDibble]

I see Max's mum has gotten involved by insinuating that Checo was unfaithful to his wife during Monaco weekend. The Verstappen's really are a sour bunch aren't they? Always been fairy impartial in F1 (unles Danny Ric was involved) but frankly I hope he gets absolutely pummelled next season. Mid table mediocrity would be lovely.

[charlierc]

I mean, Verstappen is not the first F1 World Champion to be a dick to other drivers or even other team-mates, but it's hard to see how this helps him, not least as many Verstappen fans I've seen on social media think he fucked up, and given how partisan F1 fanbases are, if the own side concede its terrible on his part, it must be big.

It's easy imo to wonder if Red Bull could do better at managing their World Champions, given the first comparison this got was the infamous Multi 2-1 incident in Malaysia in 2013 when Vettel ignored a team order to stay behind Mark Webber and aggressively overtook him to win that race. Even then, though, that was at least over the prestige of getting Red Bull's first win of the season in the second round of that year's championship, if admittedly the final straw given there was a lot of bad blood in their 4 years together (Turkey and Silverstone 2010 in particular).

This was just squabbling over 6th after both titles are sewn up. Imo Verstappen could've just said he thought he could get Alonso in a drag race to the line and was too far ahead of Perez (4/5 second gap at the line, I think?) but decided this was the time for a petty act of revenge over something that happened six months ago, after Perez has repeatedly helped Max in other rounds this year and for others to make aggressive low-blows slighting Perez in response? I mean pick your battles ffs.

[squirrelarmy]

19 hours ago, Barry Fish said:

I think next year if Lewis and Max are going for the World Title I would expect a lot of crashes and hopefully the FIA now continue to clamped down on Max and his unacceptable ultimately unfair approach to racing.

Liberty media will love it if they collide. More crashes between the rivalry they created then higher ratings for the show. 
 

They’ll probably add bonus points if you take out your rival. They might as well add tyre cutting spokes to the car wheels. Go full on carmaggeddon to keep the ratings up. 
 

Either way it looks like the days of the gentleman racer is far behind us. The drivers have no respect for each other any more. There’s no unity in the fan bases either. This place is one of the few exceptions where there isn’t any toxicity.

[charlierc]

I like the fact tbf that while everyone's speculating that every driver hates one another, they're at least friendly enough to all go out for a last supper for Vettel (and maybe Ricciardo, Latifi and Schumacher Jr, or at least for now in those 3 cases).

Tbf I think posts referencing that might be a generally quite popular F1 Twitter use for today.

This, by contrast, may be a slightly more divisive one, or at least more popular for one demographic of F1 fans than another.

 

[charlierc]

15 hours ago, squirrelarmy said:

Liberty media will love it if they collide. More crashes between the rivalry they created then higher ratings for the show. 
 

They’ll probably add bonus points if you take out your rival. They might as well add tyre cutting spokes to the car wheels. Go full on carmaggeddon to keep the ratings up. 
 

Either way it looks like the days of the gentleman racer is far behind us. The drivers have no respect for each other any more. There’s no unity in the fan bases either. This place is one of the few exceptions where there isn’t any toxicity.

For some reason I genuinely thought there was a car racing series where they did have some fitted with spikes on the wheels. Maybe I'm mistaken as I didn't see anything obviously doing that sort of thing.

In terms of the antics that went on last time out, I did see Carlos Sainz has decided the fire needed more fuel, given he said deliberate crashes have happened more frequently than people think, which is a big claim to put out in the open and will naturally lead to people speculating about what incidents were deliberate, not least given a reluctance to go on the record and say one that happened. And this was in support of adopting the IndyCar rule of penalties for causing yellow or red flags in qualy, as I believe we discussed on the last page.

In a way it's quite something that Red Bull have been so dominant in 2022 yet appear to have totally tied themselves in knots with arguments behind the scenes that are spilling over into shitshows like what happened in the final laps in Brazil last week, and let to a surprisingly toxic argument between fans of their drivers. I'm not sure their statement about it has helped stop the arguments either.

[DareToDibble]

1 hour ago, Barry Fish said:

Really sad to see Seb go this weekend....  and Daniel....     two big losses for the sport...

Daniel really should have had a shot at a WC and I think Seb was a little spoilt with his four titles but he has turned into one of the most decent blokes to pull on a F1 helmet.  But both are examples of how success in F1 is as much about the decisions taken off the race track as the ones on it.  Got to make sure you are in the right place at the right time.

I still think Sab should have won a WDC at Ferrari but let himself down with a couple of crashes. I might be wrong but I'm sure he was quite a way ahead of Lewis at one point. Didn't he end up binning it in the German GP after Lewis has already had a bot of a mare? Too many points thrown away in what was arguably the better car. Just shows the pressure when going up against Lewis.

Will absolutely miss both Seb and Danny Ric.

I wonder how Lando will react if Piastri comes in and is instantly quick and challenging him for #1 in the team.

[charlierc]

4 hours ago, DareToDibble said:

I still think Sab should have won a WDC at Ferrari but let himself down with a couple of crashes. I might be wrong but I'm sure he was quite a way ahead of Lewis at one point. Didn't he end up binning it in the German GP after Lewis has already had a bot of a mare? Too many points thrown away in what was arguably the better car. Just shows the pressure when going up against Lewis.

Will absolutely miss both Seb and Danny Ric.

I wonder how Lando will react if Piastri comes in and is instantly quick and challenging him for #1 in the team.

I think the better shot he had was 2017 - Ferrari was ahead until the summer break and Hamilton hadn't topped the title race at any point when they had it, but Merc came back with a much better car while Ferrari's response was Vettel & Raikkonen colliding in Singapore followed by mechanical failures at the next two rounds. Though yeah Germany 2018 was the big one still seen as a what if - was in a close fight with Lewis at the point when that DNF gave Lewis the advantage and was compounded by 3 spins in quick succession after the summer break.

But yeah, to lose one of Vettel and Ricciardo feels like a big loss by itself given how popular they are off-grid and the fact its losing two race winners. Losing both is going to feel super weird when we reconvene for the first rounds next year.

Though in the case of Ricciardo, it is bizarre how quick his career has arced from leaving Red Bull in 2018 because he didn't want to be Verstappen's number 2 only to return to Milton Keynes in 2023 as Verstappen's back-up (if Marko's comments to Sky Germany are followed by an official announcement, anyway).

[Guest]

17 hours ago, DareToDibble said:

I still think Sab should have won a WDC at Ferrari but let himself down with a couple of crashes. I might be wrong but I'm sure he was quite a way ahead of Lewis at one point. Didn't he end up binning it in the German GP after Lewis has already had a bot of a mare? Too many points thrown away in what was arguably the better car. Just shows the pressure when going up against Lewis.

Will absolutely miss both Seb and Danny Ric.

I wonder how Lando will react if Piastri comes in and is instantly quick and challenging him for #1 in the team.

Yeah you are right, that was Germany 2018 when it started to rain and Seb put it into the wall. He never recovered from that and Lewis went onto win the title. I like Seb nowadays but he really blew it that year. 

[charlierc]

Must say Vettel's lap in Q1 where he went faster than both Mercedes even while having to slalom through a ton of slow cars in the final sector was a mighty impressive performance.

I also ponder if Abu Dhabi might be another track with problems of cars dawdling in the final sector in qualifying and that it might cause someone to come to grief if we're not careful. May not be as attention grabbing as Monza and ridiculous shit like the time everyone drove at about 1/3rd the usual speed for a whole out-lap only to miss the chance to set a lap, but still a possible bone of contention.

[Guest]

Lewis Hamilton is so unlucky, but at least it's meant Seb can get a point in his last ever race.

[charlierc]

So, that's that then for 2022.

For all the arguments over Verstappen being a shit team-mate after what happened in Brazil last week, Leclerc finished ahead of Perez by a margin that would've overcome the difference and both were unable to catch Verstappen anyway, in something of a 2022-in-miniature moment. Guess we can hope that Verstappen gets a closer challenger this time around.

Ricciardo and Vettel signing off with points was a nice touch, and looks like they had a nice little duel at the end too. Hamilton having a mechanical DNF is pretty rare - think since 2018 his only other DNFs were from crashes as what happened in Monza last year or on lap one of Spa this time.

Oh and Latifi doing his best to nearly cause another Abu Dhabi safety car. I guess that's a way to exit, even if this incident wasn't his fault.

[charlierc]

1 hour ago, Ozanne said:

Lewis Hamilton is so unlucky, but at least it's meant Seb can get a point in his last ever race.

I don't think he's had a bad year necessarily but Russell seemed to figure the car out better. 35 points between the Mercedes pair is quite the gap, with Russell also beating Carlos Sainz into the bargain if likely thanks to Sainz having more DNFs.

There's absolutely work for Mercedes to do if they're gonna reel in Red Bull next year. Mexico and Brazil hinted they're closer to making this philosophy work, but Abu Dhabi felt like a step back. In a way it's almost putting them in the niche Red Bull had in 2017-19 - good enough to swipe the odd win and be comfortably ahead of the midfield, not enough to reel in the top two.

Guess we only have a few months to wait and see what the response looks like.

[charlierc]

I think China's circuit might have provided some decent racing with these cars but if they're still where they are with covid, it feels like an April date for a return there is a bit optimistic.

Azerbaijan in what was meant to be the race after might also be one to watch out for given the recent escalation in tensions between themselves and Armenia. 

[DareToDibble]

Shame about China as the track tended to provide good racing but completely understandable they've binned it off. Last thing we need is people in the pit lane getting stuck with Covid and shutting the sport down - or worse, bringing it to other countries with them.

Good to see Ricciardo back at Red Bull. Not a huge fan of how they treat drivers sometimes but the fact he referred to it as "home" probably says everything about the affinity* he still has for the team.

*Tried to shoehorn in an Infiniti joke here. Failed.

[charlierc]

Well it looks like this old thing is firing back up. 

Ford partnering with Red Bull on their Powertrains project nearly 20 years on from selling what was then called Jaguar Racing to Red Bull in the first place is quite the impressive full-circle move.

[charlierc]

27 minutes ago, Barry Fish said:

Interesting move - I don't hold out much hope of it being a successful partnership but lets see.

Well it's not going live until 2026, with Red Bull continuing their Honda partnership until then - something that has been pretty good tbf.

There's a lot of competition coming along tbf. Audi's investment in Sauber is a huge move, their sister brand Porsche are still sniffing around, plus Andretti is still trying to break down the door despite F1 teams themselves not being that bothered, and others are also interested in the FIA's note to expand the field.

Whether it's done with the current FIA leader given the current cloud of stink being kicked up around him is another matter.

[charlierc]

Hmmmm... I know Lance Stroll isn't a popular figure in F1 circles but this feels like a definite bad start to the year, particularly as there's a risk he might also miss the season opener in 2 weeks time. We saw Ricciardo on the backfoot last season after missing testing and it took Vettel a little bit of time to get going after his covid diagnosis meant he missed the first two rounds of last season.

[DareToDibble]

Curious to see how pre-season testing goes this week. I would be surprised if Mercedes haven't closed the gap. Hopefully we get a closer race for the title this year than last year. Some good races last year but the fact Sky had to big up "the race for 2nd" says it all really.

[charlierc]

2 minutes ago, DareToDibble said:

Curious to see how pre-season testing goes this week. I would be surprised if Mercedes haven't closed the gap. Hopefully we get a closer race for the title this year than last year. Some good races last year but the fact Sky had to big up "the race for 2nd" says it all really.

I'm not sure if we'll get that much definitive, given both that McLaren were fastest on some days in testing last year but were nowhere near wins, and the fact that 3 days of running is arguably too short to test these.

I think while we'll get some clues, the actual Bahrain practice sessions will be more representative of what we'll be seeing for the first few rounds.

And yeah totally. There were decent races last year (Silverstone, COTA and Brazil being the best 3) but Ferrari's assortment of mistakes before the summer break, Red Bull being borderline unstoppable after it, and everyone else being nowhere near, including Mercedes in something of a surprise, cost us a proper title fight. Obviously not every F1 season is going to be a 2021-style nail-biter that goes right to the end - for better or worse - but at least a title fight not settled by July would be a start.

[DareToDibble]

Looks like McLaren might be a bit of a shitheap again. Obviously just testing but looks like they did a similar run to Alonso in the Aston Martin and ended up nearly a second down. 

Fingers crossed Aston Martin look as good as their early promise. Would be great to have another team competing at the front. 

[charlierc]

On 2/23/2023 at 8:31 PM, DareToDibble said:

Looks like McLaren might be a bit of a shitheap again. Obviously just testing but looks like they did a similar run to Alonso in the Aston Martin and ended up nearly a second down. 

Fingers crossed Aston Martin look as good as their early promise. Would be great to have another team competing at the front. 

Zak Brown has already said that McLaren missed their development targets and are betting the farm on an upgrade package to come in from around round 4 (which will be Baku).

Mercedes also seem to still be behind RB+Ferrari, though Aston Martin and Alfa Romeo seem to have had good spells in this run of tests, and Williams also look like despite their behind-the-scenes problems, they might have got something better.

But then I'm not getting carried away as to what all this means, mind. It's still testing with different teams doing different bits at different times, though it has been noted these times are generally faster than the equivalents at this track last year. Could make it interesting for next weekend when this all starts up for real.

[charlierc]

I guess tomorrow's practice sessions ahead of the Bahrain race will possibly give us more of a sign as to whether Red Bull have built a monster, if Aston Martin are on Mercedes' level, what Alpine's level actually is after they opted to do a slow test or whether McLaren are at the back.